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March 28, 2024, 09:38:19 PM

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Trump number 8

Started by Fambo Number Mive, August 23, 2018, 08:19:52 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Will Trump be re-elected in 2020?

Yes because we're all fucked now
21 (38.2%)
Aye, probably
14 (25.5%)
No because Trump will eventually trip himself up
0 (0%)
No because the Democrats will triumph
2 (3.6%)
I HEAR YOU'RE A RACIST NOW FATHER
4 (7.3%)
Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy and Stuart Sutcliffe
1 (1.8%)
It's all pointless - like bringing a knife to a gun party (Sandford, 18/06/16)
0 (0%)
Rode slipshod over all dumbshits, he were curious orange
1 (1.8%)
Search for "Goatse" increased by 600% since election outcome
2 (3.6%)
Pee Tape emerges with no real impact other than increased awareness of prostate check
0 (0%)
Trump steps down, Pence rises like a greying Ken doll found in a sewer full of pig fat
0 (0%)
In the episode, Captain Kirk stands trial on charges of negligence after a crewman fakes his own death.
0 (0%)
Imagine the size of his balls
0 (0%)
Obama emerges from the void screaming PULL YOUR PANTS UP, DAD'S HOME
0 (0%)
Not as good as The Wire
1 (1.8%)
Raoul Moat
3 (5.5%)
PLEASE GAS THIS WHITEHOUSE OF CUNTS
2 (3.6%)
Sauron falls through the bar
0 (0%)
As predicted by Frank T. J. Mackie
0 (0%)
Carry On Up The Arse
2 (3.6%)
The Mueller-Lite Effect
0 (0%)
The Further Adventures of Snow White Supremacist and the Fifteen Stupid Twats
0 (0%)
Trump re-elected as man plays Bela Lugosi's Dead on a tuba made of smegma
1 (1.8%)
#NotAllFAtStupidYanks
0 (0%)
I had a fat stupid yank in me car once, made a right fuckin mess
1 (1.8%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Urinal Cake

Courts are pretty reluctant to say what is and isn't a national emergency. Although with a Conservative Court who knows. From what I've read and it sounds plausible the legal challenge might be on eminent domain. Using emergency powers to acquire private land during peace time is a big no. So Trump might get some more of his wall.
Another challenge is whether the military is required to build the wall. I think with the violence at the border Trump might have a reasonable case.

What is he declaring a "national emergency" pursuant to? The money has to come from somewhere and to have been appropriated for some reason. Is he taking money set aside for FEMA?

The media reporting on this so far has not been very good, because what I've seen has implied that the President has some kind of legal authority to just declare a national emergency to do things.

Quote from: Urinal Cake on February 15, 2019, 01:46:45 AM
Although with a Conservative Court who knows.

Think you mean Fascist Court. The current ideologues on the court are obsessed with dictatorial executive power and are in no way conservative (big or little C).

Ferris

I think the courts would (probably) do whatever he told them. The real sticking point will be what happens if Obama 2.0 starts declaring emergencies for liberal policies that weren't able to get through Congress.

The concern for republicans is the precedent, not necessarily judiciary legislating on the act itself.

Rev+

Well it took a while but this is your actual tyranny.  It'll get shot down, but we shouldn't have reached this point.

Urinal Cake

#1805
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808
QuoteSuch projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.
According to Vox this something like $21billion.

Trump and the GOP aren't probably thinking that far ahead concentrating on keeping the base happy for 2020 or drowning media analysis on Manafort etc. If they are they're counting on the Supreme Court (hopefully with RBG replaced by 2020/4) being right-wing enough to see climate change/poverty/left-wing issues as atypical/ahistoric of the Act or at least limits the scope of those powers.

Quote from: Urinal Cake on February 15, 2019, 02:26:55 AM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808According to Vox this something like $21billion.

Trump and the GOP aren't probably thinking that far ahead concentrating on keeping the base happy for 2020 or drowning media analysis on Manafort etc. If they are they're counting on the Supreme Court (hopefully with RBG replaced by 2020/4) being right-wing enough to see climate change/poverty/left-wing issues as atypical/ahistoric of the Act or at least limits the scope of those powers.

So apparently there is a literal "National Emergencies Act"

This would be a good moment for the press to actually do its job and point out that the only reason Trump can even arguably create money out of thin air for his insane whims is that over the last eighty years the media/Congress/courts have created a warfare-based national government where there is a blank check for anything involving the military.

The funding is limitless, it is a giant quagmire that can never be audited, and none of it does anything productive.

imitationleather

In his latest photos he looks like he cannot have more than six months of life left in him, surely.

Blumf

Interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States

Still loads from the Clinton years, and one from Carter's term (Iran, unsurprisingly), mostly seem to be sanctions on individuals, groups, or countries.

Blue Jam


Mr Banlon

"I didn't need to do this, but I'd rather do it much faster. I just want to get it done faster."
https://twitter.com/TeamPelosi/status/1096454807555137537
Not really a fucking emergency then.

Ferris

Quote from: Mr Banlon on February 15, 2019, 05:25:10 PM
"I didn't need to do this, but I'd rather do it much faster. I just want to get it done faster."
https://twitter.com/TeamPelosi/status/1096454807555137537
Not really a fucking emergency then.

It'll still get through the courts, and the senate won't override the veto because they're all partisan hacks. Even though he's saying the quiet part loud. Shambles.

Alberon

Not that Trump gives a fuck but if it gets through it opens the door to future presidents doing the same. What would stop a future Democrat president from declaring a National Emergency on gun violence?

The whole thing undermines American democracy and allows the President to consolidate power in the office and slowly remove the checks and balances of a proper stable democracy. I can't help but feel the US will copy more and more from the Erdogan and Duterte's playbooks as the country's global power ebbs. Voters love a strong leader, never mind what rights he or she is trampling on.

Twed

Yeah. I hope that the biggest societal change I see in my lifetime is power being fully shifted away from people who were born to rule. It's starting to happen, and I hope I see the present political landscape wiped out.

Did anyone else notice his strange tone of voice? Like he was trying to imitate JFK's pattern of speech.


Head Gardener

Quote from: imitationleather on February 15, 2019, 08:48:45 AM
In his latest photos he looks like he cannot have more than six months of life left in him, surely.


Mr Banlon

Quote from: confettiinmyhair on February 15, 2019, 07:15:07 PM
Did anyone else notice his strange tone of voice? Like he was trying to imitate JFK's pattern of speech.
https://twitter.com/NickLutsko/status/1096473564079886337

steve98

Here's the text to his full speech announcing his State Of Emergency. It's amazing. Easily his biggest load of verbal shite since becoming Prez. Hardly a single sentence makes sense. He sounds mad. It really is astonishing.

A bit about China before we get to the wall -

TRUMP: We've had a negotiation going on for about two days. It's going extremely well. Who knows what that means, because it only matters if we get it done. But we're very much working very closely with China and President Xi, who I respect a lot. Very good relationship that we have.
And we're a lot closer than we ever were in this country with having a real trade deal. We're covering everything, all of the points that people have been talking about for years and said couldn't be done, whether it was theft or anything -- anything -- the unfairness.

... and Nth Korea -

TRUMP - A lot was done in the first summit. No more rockets going up, no more missiles going up, no more testing of nuclear. Get back our remains, the remains of our great heroes from the Korean War. And we got back our hostages.

But we hope we're going to be very much equally as successful.
I'm in no rush for speed. We just don't want testing.
The sanctions, as you know, remain. Everything is remaining.

Some reassuring words about the economy -

Our economy is thriving like never before. You look at other economies, they're doing terribly, and we're doing phenomenally. The market is up tremendously today, not that that's anything, but, you know, because they'll go back in and they'll say, "Oh, the market just went down." But the market is getting close to the new highs that we created. We -- we have all the records. We have every record. But we're getting close to that point again where we'll create new records.

And onto The Wall -

TRUMP: So everyone knows that walls work. And there are better examples than El Paso, frankly. You just take a look, almost everywhere. Take a look at Israel. They're building another wall. Their wall is 99.9 percent effective, they tell me -- 99.9 percent. That's what it would be with us, too. The only weakness is they go to a wall and then they go around the wall. They go around the wall and in. OK? That's what it is, very simple.

The militaries been "Incredible" (At putting barbed wire on an old bit of wall)...

We've detained more people. Our border agents are doing such incredible work. Our military has been incredible. We put up barbed wire on top of certain old walls that were there. We fixed the wall and we load it up with barbed wire. It's very successful.

One of the things we'd save tremendous -- just a tremendous amount on would be sending the military. If we had a wall, we don't need the military, because we'd have a wall.

The Border Security people (Sitting in the front row) told they're for the heave-ho once his wall is built -

And we've done an incredible job in stopping them, but it's a massive number of people. If we had the wall, it would be very easy. We would make up for the cost of the wall, just with the cost of the fact that I would be able to have fewer people. We wouldn't need all of this incredible talent -- some of whom are sitting in the first row -- you wouldn't need all of this incredible talent.

Blame time -

It would have been great to have done it earlier, but I was a little new to the job, a little new to the profession, and we had a little disappointment for the first year and a half. People that should have stepped up did not step up. They didn't step up and they should have. It would have been easy. Not that easy, but it would have been a lot easier. But some people didn't step up.

And it just goes on and on and on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/15/trumps-bewildering-national-emergency-press-conference-annotated/?utm_term=.fbce96d9b01e

Ferris

That's fairly coherent by his standards.

Alberon

At one of his rallies the other day he started going on about sniffer dogs and quickly got distracted into why he doesn't have a dog when many presidents did. Apparently he's far too busy to have a dog. He was helped out by the crowd, one of whom shouted accusingly that Obama had a dog.

To be fair to him the word salad he comes out with works better spoken at the venues he's used to. It's only when you write it down that you fully realise what utter crap it is.

PlanktonSideburns

It's a bit like listening to late stage U2 or God forbid COLDPLAY in a non arena based environment, it's just wailing nonsense and reverb.

Paul Calf

Quote from: Alberon on February 16, 2019, 09:21:35 AM
At one of his rallies the other day he started going on about sniffer dogs and quickly got distracted into why he doesn't have a dog when many presidents did. Apparently he's far too busy to have a dog. He was helped out by the crowd, one of whom shouted accusingly that Obama had a dog.

To be fair to him the word salad he comes out with works better spoken at the venues he's used to. It's only when you write it down that you fully realise what utter crap it is.

That's true of all demagoguery.

Hank Venture

100% Alzheimers.

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1096847921381818369

Imagine how unhealthy Trump has been for all of his life. Eats like shit, never exercises, hates reading. I remember he came out with some nonsense about exercising in the early days of his presidency, where he apparently believes you have X amounts of heart beats in your life, and by getting your pulse up you're  spending them quicker.

Quote from: Alberon on February 15, 2019, 05:44:57 PM
Not that Trump gives a fuck but if it gets through it opens the door to future presidents doing the same. What would stop a future Democrat president from declaring a National Emergency on gun violence?

The whole thing undermines American democracy and allows the President to consolidate power in the office and slowly remove the checks and balances of a proper stable democracy. I can't help but feel the US will copy more and more from the Erdogan and Duterte's playbooks as the country's global power ebbs. Voters love a strong leader, never mind what rights he or she is trampling on.

That statute linked earlier in this thread seemingly only concerns military "construction projects." So I don't really see this setting a precedent for Dem presidents unless there is some way to build a giant concrete moat to throw all the guns in.

Urinal Cake

After further reading the President has wide leeway to call on national emergency. In the past this has included finance, air pollution etc so Dems using these powers for good aren't out of the question.

However the Court and Congress has tried to limit how these  powers are utilised by the Executive. For the Court is if it is seen to violate the Construction or key legal principles.

Ferris

Quote from: Urinal Cake on February 17, 2019, 06:27:37 AM
For the Court is if it is seen to violate the Construction or key legal principles.

Well, the key legal principle is that this violates congress' power of the purse. It is article 1 of the constitution.

The DoE powers are used when congress doesn't have time to act so you need to bypass them due to the urgency of the emergency, not when you've sent a request to congress to fund something, they've said no, and you've closed the government, they've still said no, so you try and bypass them.

That is absolutely unconstitutional. One of the tests for a DoE needs to be "has this request been considered by congress and rejected? If so, has the situation materially changed from the time they rejected it? If not, then there's nothing new to consider and this is an attempted overreach from the executive branch"

Why have article 1 of the constitution if you can do this? If you're able to do it once for spurious reasons, then theoretically you can set an entire fiscal budget this way. Then you can make laws via executive order - suddenly you don't need the legislative branch any more. That's not how coequal branches of government work.

Urinal Cake

My guess would be that the national emergency powers are a vestige of the royal prerogative powers inherited from English Common Law. These powers relate to the Monarchy or Executive having the inherit ability to override Parliament/Congress etc in certain circumstances such as war, emergencies and foreign affairs etc. This can't be extinguished by the Constitution,  Court or Congress but it can be 'managed' through Acts or Court interpretation.

Courts are pretty reluctant to handle foreign affairs and national security such as border walls since the Executive is elected and the Executive is in the best position in regards to knowledge to make such a decision.

DrGreggles


monolith

Quote from: Alberon on February 15, 2019, 05:44:57 PM
What would stop a future Democrat president from declaring a National Emergency on gun violence?


Supreme court has a right wing majority now, and as it's a lifetime appointment it's unlikely that any Democratic president will get to use the national emergency Trump card any time in the near future with success.