Trump number 8

[Twed]

I don't disagree with you Twed and on the whole i like your posts , but can't we even mention Trump's actions without some take down of "The Resistance"? There's no leading Dems on here.

People clearly want to discuss it, it's one of the major facets of this entire thing. There's an entire conversation from yesterday all about it right here. I think the response to me posting that image from Twitter is what's out of proportion here. A ridiculous amount of stink kicked up over a post that people could just decide isn't for them.

there's probably some ground to be found between 'correctly identifying that this story is overblown by the liberal media and won't solve the most impactful structural issues (if any)' and 'loudly announcing at any given opportunity that you don't care about the most powerful people in the world doing crimes'

Most of the noise is generated by people having hissy fits when the overall makeup of the conversation isn't precisely to their standards. Not interested, just ignore the posts you don't care about and don't generate drama. That's the obvious thing to do if you were actually concerned about that and not just lashing out because you're irritated.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

i am lashing out, you'd better believe im really angry about this

[Howj Begg]

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1118989661555372033

Proof you can clearly be interested in more than one thing.

Not interested, just ignore the posts you don't care about and don't generate drama.

Absolutely correct.

[Twed]

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1118989661555372033

It's hard for me to come up with a timeline where a Trump impeachment is a good thing.

1) Somebody beats him in 2020 and we've spent the last nine months impeaching him for the last 12 seconds of his presidency
2) He wins again and he is impeached but so what, because Trump has won again and his replacement will be as evil but less embarrassing

Maybe I'm missing something.

[Urinal Cake]

It's slightly embarrassing for Trump regarding Wikileaks. But he it seems he doesn't really know what it is like 'the Google's, 'the Facebook' and 'the xHamster'

From what I've read the obstruction case is fairly weak. Given that  public sentiment towards him is fairly calloused so he won't suffer any real public fallout and take it in his stride.

The point is this report will be all things to all men. It's innocence. Now that's is not guilt on collusion it's guilt on obstruction. The importance is if legal action arose from it- it hasn't. The other thing is that this is proof that Trump is a stupid paranoid willing to fight shadows which he sensibly knows aren't there but believes his toes will make real or something. A few people can use this.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

There is no doubt in my mind that nothing will come of this

[Howj Begg]

It's hard for me to come up with a timeline where a Trump impeachment is a good thing.

1) Somebody beats him in 2020 and we've spent the last nine months impeaching him for the last 12 seconds of his presidency
2) He wins again and he is impeached but so what, because Trump has won again and his replacement will be as evil but less embarrassing

Maybe I'm missing something.

To be truthful, I don't necessarily disagree with you, and interestingly you agree with your favourite person, Nancy Pelosi. I think the house committees should continue their investigations for now, and as they turn stuff over from Deutsche Bank and David Pecker and Cohen and the tax returns etc etc they should let that determine the direction an impeachment could take. But strategically impeachment proceedings might not be the best things to actually start, and instead the findings could form a part of the campaign. But I think we can agree that strategic thinking is the reason not to impeach, and not anything else, and that's kind of relevant in itself.

[Twed]

To be truthful, I don't necessarily disagree with you, and interestingly you agree with your favourite person, Nancy Pelosi. I think the house committees should continue their investigations for now, and as they turn stuff over from Deutsche Bank and David Pecker and Cohen and the tax returns etc etc they should let that determine the direction an impeachment could take. But strategically impeachment proceedings might not be the best things to actually start, and instead the findings could form a part of the campaign. But I think we can agree that strategic thinking is the reason not to impeach, and not anything else, and that's kind of relevant in itself.

I'm not petty about things, I don't mind agreeing with Nancy Pelosi. (although I do think that "agreeing" is too strong a word. There's a difference wanting the same outcome and having the same principles). Yes, morally speaking he should be up against the wall.

I think it is important to ingest the wrongdoings from the Mueller report. I hope people take away that he's an immoral oligarch and carry more anger about abuses of power, but we're talking about somebody who wasn't damaged by the pussy grabbing stuff.

[Howj Begg]

I'm not petty about things, I don't mind agreeing with Nancy Pelosi. (although I do think that "agreeing" is too strong a word. There's a difference wanting the same outcome and having the same principles)

100%. And analogously, a person can be a Bernie-voting, democratic socialist and still accept the bare naked truth of the implications that the major news stories of the last two years have been shown to be accurate by this report. To insist that everyone who thinks similarly on this particular issue is the same type of neoliberal Hillary shill would be, as you say, petty.

I think it is important to ingest the wrongdoings from the Mueller report. I hope people take away that he's an immoral oligarch and carry more anger about abuses of power, but we're talking about somebody who wasn't damaged by the pussy grabbing stuff.

Yes, absolutely. Of course his campaign should have stopped there. But that's not tangible rule of law stuff. which can make the biggest difference. All of this is confirming his character and behaviour, all of which was clear to all non-fans in 2016.

[Howj Begg]

dp

[Twed]

100%. And analogously, a person can be a Bernie-voting, democratic socialist and still accept the bare naked truth of the implications that the major news stories of the last two years have been shown to be accurate by this report. To insist that everyone who thinks similarly on this particular issue is the same type of neoliberal Hillary shill would be, as you say, petty.

Did I ever say that? I think that people who blast this as the most important matter in our society are shills. People are think that this is a singular act of treason and not business as usual are shills. People with a responsibility to report on and fight for societal and environmental causes in proportion to this are shills. There are qualifications to the statement, and you don't have to keep circling back to a misreading of it.

[Howj Begg]

Did I ever say that? I think that people who blast this as the most important matter in our society are shills. People are think that this is a singular act of treason and not business as usual are shills. There's are qualifications to the statement, and you don't have to keep circling back to a misreading of it.

I think you have certainly intimated it and said it in a variety of ways, yeah, But I'm not looking to have an argument with you, honestly.

Business as usual - yes and no, and both parts of that are important. Yes and that's why the presidency should be transformed by a democratic socialist, no because the "corruption" (the word used repeatedly in the report) is only distinct in that it goes back to Reagan, who made Trump possible, and Bush, who was his John the Baptist.

[Howj Begg]

Another take from AOC:

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1119003434412331008

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
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Verified account

@AOC
Following Following @AOC
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Many know I take no pleasure in discussions of impeachment. I didn't campaign on it, & rarely discuss it unprompted.

We all prefer working on our priorities: pushing Medicare for All, tackling student loans, & a Green New Deal.

But the report squarely puts this on our doorstep.

[Mister Six]

Most of the noise is generated by people having hissy fits when the overall makeup of the conversation isn't precisely to their standards. Not interested, just ignore the posts you don't care about and don't generate drama.

Do you, uh, realise that you're referring to yourself here, or is it some kind of ironic performance art thing?

I don't know about anyone else, but your posts on this subject are wearying because you have nothing new to say. You just repeat the same old "Cuh, this is just a distraction from the problems in the system" non-point over and over and over, to the illumination of nobody. And you're wrong - the problems with the system are being discussed concurrently here and elsewhere. It's not a distraction at all.

Your irritation at how this has dominated the media narrative is justified, but for Christ's sake, we don't want to hear it repeated verbatim for the fifty millionth time.

There are other threads you can go to if you don't want to discuss Trump or the crimes he has very probably committed, and the fallout that may or may not occur from that. You started some of them. So why not go over to them and continue those discussions - with many of the same people in this thread, myself included?

[Twed]

If this was about the quality of conversation you wouldn't multiply my occasional post that you find boring by piling on with six other people, especially not hours later when everything is done. It's really no more complex than that, and I'm not indulging you or changing a single letter of any post I'll make in response to your patronising waffle. Roll your eyes and get on with it next time you have to see one of my posts that you don't like.

[Twed]

In fact, every time one of you has a tantrum about it I'm just going to make an extra post along the same lines. Go piss yourselves.

[chveik]

no need to follow politics, we've got our own soap opera right here

[Monsieur Verdoux]

this is excellent posting, I particularly love how we're focusing on the real issues and not getting distracted

[Twed]

Which includes you. And don't misrepresent me by saying that I was forcing people here to "focus on the issues". I've been really direct about how that's directed at the media.

Stop shit stirring.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

yeah i definitely said you were forcing people, that's a direct quote from me alright!

[Urinal Cake]

If I was Pelosi etc I would just go for an impeachment just to rattle Trump's cage just before the election. From the report you know it'll get to him and cause him to do something stupid/illegal in a cover up.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I've been really direct about how that's directed at the media.

try talking to the people here instead, might be easier, more productive

[Ferris]

I'm not petty about things

In fact, every time one of you has a tantrum about it I'm just going to make an extra post along the same lines. Go piss yourselves.

Fantastic. This is why I didn't want to bother with an argument.

[Twed]

You four boring bastards have absolutely trashed the thread with performative eye rolling. Posting in spite of that is productive, not petty if it makes you give up and accept that this conversation is going to go on around you.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

the conversation about how there's too much conversation about something

[Ferris]

You four boring bastards have absolutely trashed the thread with performative eye rolling. Posting in spite of that is productive, not petty if it makes you give up and accept that this conversation is going to go on around you.

The conversation that it's completely fine that Trump commits crimes and that we should all ignore it and deflect and anyway let's focus on DNC policy (in the "Trump" thread, no less)?

On you go chief, I'm not stopping ya. Might be a small conversation!

[Twed]

We shouldn't ignore it. I haven't ignored it. I've commented specifically about it.

I'm not asking anybody here to ignore it or talk less about it. I think public figures should give it coverage in proportion and people who are using it to support their own brand of political evil should be exposed. I've been clear about that. You're ignoring it because you are enjoying this off-topic conversation more.

Again, you could have just ignored the thing I posted about this instead of generating this much drama. And again, I will absolutely not stop posting what I think is worth talking about. It is on you to come to terms with that, and deal with it in a more mature way. There's block scripts if you need them, or you could just not be wankers.

[Twed]

Ever see this many CNN goons lined up at a table to discuss poverty?

(or maybe they've just heard that I've linked to a tweet earlier in this thread and are getting ready to spend five hours telling me off)

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I will absolutely not stop posting what I think is worth talking about.

I would absolutely love it if you kept posting about the things you wanted to talk about, but pretty much every single time this investigation has come up on here you've made some sneery comment about how "this is much better than policy" or something along those lines, so I do think you're being dishonest about not wanting people to talk about it less. Just take your own advice and learn to ignore posts you don't like and just further the conversation in more productive ways maybe?

And believe it or not, I'm in total agreement with you about the Russia stuff! But fucking hell this has gotten doctrinaire and ridiculous

[Twed]

https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1118918139230785541

It doesn't take much searching to find a lot of Blue Tick tweeters trying to implicate Bernie Sanders in all of this.

Media operations just casually mentioning things like "Russia sought to boost Bernie" in recent hours. Perfectly innocent.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1118970219505115137

Democratic insiders and unabashed shills think this is all a boon for their handsy boy Biden:
https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status/1118930970013503490