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BlackkKlansman (Spike Lee)

Started by surreal, August 25, 2018, 03:09:42 PM

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surreal

Just back from seeing this - thought it was very, very good.  Uncomfortable watch I must admit, given the subject matter and the time period it is set in, but it's also very funny in parts with an absolutely terrific cast.  Possibly the best movie I've seen this year in any format.

Saw it yesterday and there was an audible gasp of shock from the audience at one scene.

Mister Six

Quote from: worldsgreatestsinner on August 25, 2018, 03:42:25 PM
Saw it yesterday and there was an audible gasp of shock from the audience at one scene.

I can probably guess, but which bit?

I thought this was a superb film - best thing Lee's done in years. Funny, powerful and filled with great performances.

I especially loved the bit after "the knock", when the characters step out of their movie and into our real world - had a sense of gnawing unease that I haven't felt since Twin Peaks: The Return. And of course, everything after that was stunning. Literally - the whole audience was left in silence.

Only complaint I could throw at the movie is that the codas felt a bit choppy in terms of emotion - Things are good! Things are shit! Things are good again! - and I didn't quite get the thinking behind the "sting" on the racist cop, which felt like a parody of a happy ending, complete with the chief of police walking in and giving a high five. I know a lot of stuff (like the bomb plot) was added to the real story but this felt almost sarcastic or parodic. Was Lee highlighting the artificiality of the film ahead of that ending?

up_the_hampipe

Didn't realise this was in UK cinemas now. I will be going to see it tomorrow. Thanks pals.

bgmnts

Racism in film bores the fuck out of me now to be honest.


Quote from: Mister Six on August 25, 2018, 06:05:27 PM
I can probably guess, but which bit?


Harry Belafonte's scene. Specifically they were sold as postcards

As for

the "sting" on the racist cop, which felt like a parody of a happy ending, complete with the chief of police walking in and giving a high five. I know a lot of stuff (like the bomb plot) was added to the real story but this felt almost sarcastic or parodic. Was Lee highlighting the artificiality of the film ahead of that ending?


I took that as Lee saying

It isn't as simple as taking out one racist cop. So they have and a fake out happy ending. But racism is always going to exist and redneck fuck is small time. I think it's also showing how naive Stallworth can be. It recurs through the film - America won't elect a racist, talking to the KKK and giving his real name, etc.  And I think the film has some stylistic things taken from Blaxploitation and when there's the knock on the door and the two of them pull their guns and you get them gliding towards the door looking like Shaft and Cleopatra Jones you kind of expect the action someone like Tarantino would give then, but like you say instead we step into the real world. So the film is saying blaxploitation films are great, but there isn't the happy ending where the racists lose, I think.

Mister Six

Yeah I was thinking something like that, but we also have the scene where they're told to destroy the evidence and shut the case - ie. let the system cover up dangerous white supremacists. Not really a happy Hollywood ending. Having that followed by the sting is a weird fucking contrast. Maybe I'm just not clever enough to figure it out, I dunno.

What was the order of those little codas? Case shut down, then sting, then him tearing up the evidence and walking out, then calling David Duke, then knock at the door?

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Mister Six on August 25, 2018, 06:05:27 PM
best thing Lee's done in years

Not seen it yet, but ever since I first read about it I hoped it would be a return to form.  Fuck knows what he's been trying to do for the last 15 years or so.

As long as it's not as bad as Bamboozled...

Z

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on August 25, 2018, 11:17:08 PM
Not seen it yet, but ever since I first read about it I hoped it would be a return to form.  Fuck knows what he's been trying to do for the last 15 years or so.

As long as it's not as bad as Bamboozled...
Not a fan of Chiraq? or When the Levees Broke?

Spike Lee's never not been an erratic mess, he's just gradually became an erratic mess who has had to struggle a bit more to find funding than before.



Oh wow, that guy is Denzel's son, I was wondering whether he was trying to mimic him a lot but it didn't seem that forced.
Legit thought Michael Buscemi was Steve in an unusually small role.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Z on August 25, 2018, 11:27:17 PM
Not a fan of Chiraq? or When the Levees Broke?

Oh, his doc work has been mostly fine, I specifically meant his theatrical features.

I wasn't quite sure what Chi-Raq was supposed or trying to be, and it seemed to me like Lee didn't either.  It's not the worst film he's made, but I wouldn't include it in the middling work either.  It's somewhere down there with She Hate Me.

Z

Ignoring documentaries, Lee's top tier is like:
- Do The Right Thing
- Malcolm X


Jungle Fever and Get on the Bus are the only two I haven't seen that I might rate notably over the others I've seen.
In large part the middle is kinda bad films with some really good aspect or another. Chiraq's just got a kind of manic energy running through it that I found really thrilling, Bamboozled (which I like) has some extremely funny blunt moments largely drowned out by a terrible lead and awful early digital visuals. She's Gotta Have It is a really good student film.
I'd find it virtually impossible to rank his films tbh

Shit Good Nose

I actually have quite a low opinion of Malcolm X.  Technically it's brilliant and the acting is uniformly excellent, but it undid a lot of the work that Do The Right Thing did.  I won't go as far as saying it sanitised those events, but it definitely puts a glossy cinematic sheen on things that doesn't really need to be there, which has always massively cheapened the film for me.

Do The Right Thing is his best film, I think.  I also really like his mainstream thrillers like Inside Man, 25th Hour, Clockers and Summer of Sam.  I have a huge soft spot for School Daze (although I know most Lee fans hate it), and that one with WAY too many afros in it - Crooklyn was it?

I always liked Mo' Better Blues as well, but I've not seen it since it first came out on video.

Bamboozled is, I think, one of the worst films I've ever seen. 

Mister Six

Quote from: Z on August 26, 2018, 12:12:57 AM
Ignoring documentaries, Lee's top tier is like:
- Do The Right Thing
- Malcolm X

- 25th Hour

Junglist

Absolutely fucking loved this, but one scene was too on point and jarred a bit: the chat about how if things carry on the way they are, there'll be a president akin to

thugler

Thought this was pretty dire. Ridiculously heavy handed, the opening Baldwin stuff being a particularly bad example. Very baggy film which could have easily lost 20 minutes or so. Had the feel of a comedy. But with few jokes so there was just a weird cartoonish vibe in what would usually be very dramatic scenes. Characters were poorly drawn and either totally evil or totally good, the power of evoking horrible racist stuff was unearned and tacked on, and the depiction of the police of the time being almost entirely non racist or corrupt bar the one bad apple was absurd.
What was the point of the female black activist character? Had nothing to do in it.

Mister Six

Quote from: thugler on August 26, 2018, 09:57:42 PM
What was the point of the female black activist character? Had nothing to do in it.

Shows how the hero views his position within both the black community and the police force; reflects anti-police sentiment among some black communities; allows an alternative, negative view of police that would otherwise not be there; lets hero have a life outside of his job; ups the stakes and adds personal drama to the climactic bombing scene.

Bronzy

Quote from: Junglist on August 26, 2018, 07:34:01 PM
Absolutely fucking loved this, but one scene was too on point and jarred a bit:

That scene was really jarring for me as well, it was far too on the nose and it took me out of the film for a good few minutes, to be honest.

The heavy-handedness is probably my biggest criticism of the film, I think I would have liked it a lot more if it was slightly more subtle. That might just be a personal thing though.

Schnapple

I liked this, and found the Charlottesville footage at the end very affecting in this cinematic context, whereas I'd previously just seen it on Youtube and found it less upsetting among the endless stream of bad shit we see these days. I don't really like heavy-handed codas as a rule, but I thought the film set that one up brilliantly.

I thought the parallel sequence involving Duke (Topher Grace, very good) baptising the Klan folk intercut with the wise old activist explaining the public lynchings and Birth of A Nation was easily the most on-the-nose scene in the film, to the point that I honestly could have imagined Lee wandering on-screen and address the audience directly.

Anyway, Laure Harrier is ridicuously fit and so is this tune on the soundtrack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfYkhQblYjY

the science eel

Quote from: thugler on August 26, 2018, 09:57:42 PM
Thought this was pretty dire. Ridiculously heavy handed, the opening Baldwin stuff being a particularly bad example.

And the news footage at the end. Or was that just tagged on before the Q&A?


QuoteWhat was the point of the female black activist character? Had nothing to do in it.

Sexy.

Z

Quote from: the science eel on August 27, 2018, 01:34:54 PM
And the news footage at the end. Or was that just tagged on before the Q&A?
From what I gather he started shooting a week or two after charlottesville. I assume original ending may have been the phone call to Duke but by the time it was being shot they were aiming for an anniversary release.



I thought the Charlottesville stuff at the end was quite effective. He's really fucking good at cutting a montage of clips in general and I think it was a strong reminder of a pretty fucking grim weekend, it is very different seeing it on a big screen than in the middle of a youtube binge.

monolith

Quote from: Mister Six on August 27, 2018, 03:44:09 AM
Shows how the hero views his position within both the black community and the police force; reflects anti-police sentiment among some black communities; allows an alternative, negative view of police that would otherwise not be there; lets hero have a life outside of his job; ups the stakes and adds personal drama to the climactic bombing scene.
Apart from all that though?

Mister Six


marquis_de_sad

This will contain spoilers as the text colour thing is annoying to do and annoying to read.

I thought this was very mixed. Some bits were really good. On the acting level especially, a lot of really good performances. And there were some really impressive scenes visually (Ture's talk for instance). Other bits — the bits others have mentioned — were quite crap, and I don't think Lee was being satirical. I think he didn't know how to end his film, so he gave us six or seven endings, some of which were wildly different in tone (from comedy to documentary footage of a murder). The last 20 minutes or so felt like they stuck the DVD bonus material onto the end of the film.

One thing I found really frustrating (plot details ahead) was that there was no payoff when Ron tells his girlfriend that he's a cop. From what we know about her, it's highly unlikely that she wouldn't tell her brothers and sisters about this kind of infiltration. Not impossible, but unlikely. Ron has put his whole investigation in serious jeopardy and Patrice's world has just been turned upside down. She'll have to choose between betraying her lover or betraying her comrades, and we've been told that politics is her life. But instead of this being a turning point in the film, nothing really happens. She's just mildly ticked off about it and doesn't tell anyone.

Josef K accidentally posted this in another thread, but it's worth reading:

Quote from: Josef K on August 27, 2018, 05:54:11 PM
I enjoyed it but there were serious problems, which Boots Riley described with far more knowledge, detail and authority than I ever could:
https://twitter.com/BootsRiley/status/1030575674447212544

The idea that a 1970s police station would only have one racist cop is ludicrous and the scene with the chief coming round high-fiving them all after they've taken down the definite only racist in the station was honestly laughable.

I also didn't like the guy from the Wire saying his catchphrase from the Wire.

Wet Blanket

(Some slight spoilers)


I really enjoyed it and would also put it among the best I've seen this year, although there hasn't been a great deal of competition this year so far.

Definitely a bit of a mess that takes a while to get going, but what works, works really well. I thought the montage at the end was powerful and well earned; I didn't feel hectored and the film works on its own terms as a thriller, not just as polemic. Plus it looked and sounded fabulous.

I thought Laura Harrier's character was supposed to represent Boots Riley's perspective, but not much was made of it or the implications of Ron Stallworth being a cop infiltrating a black radical organization. I agree that the portrayal of the police, particularly the 70s police, being essentially benign with one or two bad apples was patently absurd and wasn't really sure why they included that scene with the bad cop getting busted.

The most egregious 'on-the-nose' moment was when Flip called the police 'a family' and Stallworth said something like: 'reminds me of some other people.'

surreal

Quote from: marquis_de_sad on August 28, 2018, 12:48:11 AM
I also didn't like the guy from the Wire saying his catchphrase from the Wire.

Yep, although he does it in everything he's in now so I was sitting there waiting for it as soon as I recognised him.

monolith

Yeah it's more like Arnie's "I'll be Back" now, I don't really see it as just a Clay Davis thing anymore.

Enrico Palazzo

Apparently he did it in a Spike Lee movie first. 25th Hour maybe.

marquis_de_sad

Quote from: Enrico Palazzo on August 28, 2018, 01:59:29 PM
Apparently he did it in a Spike Lee movie first. 25th Hour maybe.

Wow, you're right. Despite having seen 25th Hour (albeit long before I saw the Wire) I didn't remember this bit at all.

Howj Begg

#28
This is excellent, and I have zero problem with its lack of realism. It's hilarious and moving - I found the Stokely Carmichael lecture thrilling, and the acting from the two leads was close to ideal in broadness and emotional authenticity. Laura Harrier's character wasn't developed, as is often the case in such films, but she was great nonetheless. The 70s soundtrack was banging, and the score was, er, okay fuck the score on the whole, it was trying for Isley Brothers type mellowstream guitar feel, and it was far less effective than any good c.1973 soul or disco tracks would have been. But that was the only thing which spoiled my enjoyment. I think Peele and Lee are an excellent pairing, and in a way you could tell some of the different things they brought to it. Some scenes were clearly all Lee, and others were an admixture. I mean the premise of the film could almost be a series of Key and Peele sketches.

Im lookign forward to seeing Sorry to Bother You

I have to agree with Mister Six and worldsgreatestsinner. The cop sting and the resultant celebrations were a Twin Peaks, or if you like, conservative fantasty of racism. It was refreshing to have that meta quality at that point, as previously it had been mainly "realistic", and had raised a ton of questions in its wake. But this was directly confronting the audience just as the laughs turn sour, the "what happens next in the real world, away from this film". And then Charlottesville. It was brilliant.

Quotebut this felt almost sarcastic or parodic. Was Lee highlighting the artificiality of the film ahead of that ending?

Yes. I feel certain it was doing that, and it showed that Lee has not mellowed. I need to watch Chi-raq.