Topic: Top of the Pops on BBC Four - Thread Two.

[buzby]

Wow, very well spotted, I think you're right. This might be reaching a bit but is it the same kick drum as well, albeit a much drier version? It's more obvious in the longer version of heart with the drum pattern right at the beginning with the synth toms. What do you reckon?

Yes, I think it is. The dry version of the True Faith kick was used on the Shep Pettibone remix, and listening to the intro of that alongside the intro of the 12" version of Heart they do sound like the same sample. It's probably not a surprise, as Neil & Chris were big New Order fans, so when working with Hague after he'd produced True Faith they would have probably got copies of whatever he had on his Emulator to use on theirs.

There was quite a big community of keyboard techs, producers and engineers swapping sample disks in those days, for example the famous 'John Bonham' gated kick and snare which had been sampled from the When The Levee Breaks multitrack master by someone, and ended up everywhere

[buzby]

4 August 1988: Presenters: Mark Goodier & Janice Long (Ladies Night Special!!)

(25) VOICE OF THE BEEHIVE – I Say Nothing

This is so Bangles it hurts.

(17) THE FUNKY WORM – Hustle (To The Music)

More from the FON stable (I'm sure Jockice must know them?) - One third of the group was Richard 'Parrot' Barrett, who would go on to be half of Sweet Exorcist and one third of The All Seeing I. Despite being a rather anonymous dance act, they made a 'Bill and Ben'-themed promo for it, where he can be clearly seen.

(22) ALL ABOUT EVE – Martha's Harbour

Oh dear- the rogue sound problems we have been suffering from over the past few weeks strike at exactly the wrong time. I can imagine their manager going apoplectic to the producer up in the gallery, saying they had ruined his band's credibility. The thing is, we have usually had at least one live singer per episode for the past few weeks, and this would seem to be the ideal song and band to fill that role.

11 August 1988: Presenters: Bruno Brookes & Liz Kershaw

I HATE Liz Kershaw - she is the definition of 'Professional Northerner' with no discernible talent other than getting a leg up into radio via her brother. She is still stinking up Radio 6 to this day.

(15) ALL ABOUT EVE – Martha's Harbour

I can only imagine they were asked back and offered the 'live' slot as recompense for last week's debacle. It's fine, isn't it? She has a nice voice, but it just melts into the current 'girls with acoustical guitars' revival  (see also Tracy Chapman, Julia Fordham etc).

(23) TANITA TIKARAM – Good Tradition

Tikaram was born in Munster, Germany (a child of a Fijian British Army officer and Malaysian mother) before  moving to Basingstoke as a teenager. She had difficulty fitting in with the rest of the kids in her school, and so put all her energy into playing guitar and writing songs, encouraged by her school's music teacher. Before deciding to go to university, her parents said she had a year to try and get a recording contract.

She sent some demos out to venues in London, and eventually got a reply from The Mean Fiddler offering her an unpaid slot in their acoustic room. It just so happened on that day that Irish singer Paul Brady was playing there , and his (and Van Morrison's) manager Paul Charles went into the acoustic room to have a cup of tea before his client's gig. He was so impressed with Tanita's performance (at her first public gig) that he offered her a management contract, which then led to her getting signed to Warners.

Paul Charles sent Tikaram's vocal & guitar demo tape to Rod Argent and Peter Van Hooke (drummer for Mike & The Mechanics and Van Morrison and also a TV theme writer, including the theme for ITV's Mexico '86 World Cup coverage)) and asked them to produce her debut album as a favour. The result was Ancient Heart, and this was the lead single from it.

Again, it's fine if folky, fiddle-de -ree is your thing, but it does act as a good introduction to Tikaram's smoky baritone and her rather odd stream-of-consciousness lyrical style. The follow-up single woudl be of much more interest, to me at least.

(24) BROTHER BEYOND – The Harder I Try

The younger of my two sisters was a big fan of these, and even at the time I failed to see what she saw in them. I still don't. It's just identikit, post-peak S/A/W songwriting and production (which had been delegated to Phil Harding, indicating BB were on The Hit Factory's B-team roster).

[Non Stop Dancer]

Yes, I think it is. The dry version of the True Faith kick was used on the Shep Pettibone remix, and listening to the intro of that alongside the intro of the 12" version of Heart they do sound like the same sample. It's probably not a surprise, as Neil & Chris were big New Order fans, so when working with Hague after he'd produced True Faith they would have probably got copies of whatever he had on his Emulator to use on theirs.

There was quite a big community of keyboard techs, producers and engineers swapping sample disks in those days, for example the famous 'John Bonham' gated kick and snare which had been sampled from the When The Levee Breaks multitrack master by someone, and ended up everywhere

Great info as always, thanks.

[The Culture Bunker]

This is so Bangles it hurts.

Hmm, maybe, but I rate it above anything Susannah and the lasses were doing around the same time. Though I would say that, as I find most of what the Bangles did after the first album to be far too polished. 'I Say Nothing' I like a lot, especially the guitar.

[DrGreggles]

Peter Van Hooke (drummer for Mike & The Mechanics and Van Morrison and also a TV theme writer, including the theme for ITV's Mexico '86 World Cup coverage)

Sadly not the bass player in a Dutch New Order tribute band.

[gilbertharding]

18 August 1988: Presenters: Simon Mayo & Mike Read


(22) ROBBIE ROBERTSON – Somewhere Down The Crazy River (video / credits)
Bye-de-Bye!

I had never ever heard that Robbie Robertson song before... but it's fairly clear that Jimmy Nail was taking notes. Ain't no doubt.

[The Culture Bunker]

I had never ever heard that Robbie Robertson song before... but it's fairly clear that Jimmy Nail was taking notes. Ain't no doubt.

I think in Robertson's case, him pretty much talking the whole number is due to him not being able to sing for toffee.

[Non Stop Dancer]

Paul Charles sent Tikaram's vocal & guitar demo tape to Rod Argent and Peter Van Hooke (drummer for Mike & The Mechanics and Van Morrison and also a TV theme writer, including the theme for ITV's Mexico '86 World Cup coverage))

Aztec Gold, absolutely loved that as a kid. Could not be any more of its time than it is.

[Non Stop Dancer]

Sod 4k HDR. Those saturated, fuzzy low res images from the Mexico sun is how all football coverage should look. Anything more than a 14" CRT is showing off.

[Jockice]

. More from the FON stable (I'm sure Jockice must know them?) - One third of the group was Richard 'Parrot' Barrett, who would go on to be half of Sweet Exorcist and one third of The All Seeing I. Despite being a rather anonymous dance act, they made a 'Bill and Ben'-themed promo for it, where he can be clearly seen..

Yeah, I do. I had a bit of a strange up and down relationship with Fon (and later Warp) as I was more of an indie fan and didn't really 'get' some of their stuff, or rather certain people at the top of the labels' insistence that it was all revolutionary and totally original. As I mentioned in another thread recently I bumped into one of the Fon bosses last year and he came across as a total prick to me.

I always got on okay with most of the artists though. Parrot is still on the local music scene (although I personally haven't met him for a few years), Carl (or DJ Ping Pong as he was known in Funky Worm) travels around a bit (he's in Portugal at the moment) and does podcasts about positivity and suchlike. As for Julie, I haven't the slightest. I saw her coming out of a shop on Orchard Square a few years ago but she was too far away for me to speak to.

Incidentally, the drummer (the one sitting down) on that TOTP appearance is the dearly departed Dee Boyle, later of The Longpigs.

[Better Midlands]

More from the FON stable (I'm sure Jockice must know them?) - One third of the group was Richard 'Parrot' Barrett, who would go on to be half of Sweet Exorcist and one third of The All Seeing I. Despite being a rather anonymous dance act, they made a 'Bill and Ben'-themed promo for it, where he can be clearly seen.

Mark Brydon, the non singing one from Moloko was a co-writer and producer on this track.

[Better Midlands]

Jockice, DJ Parrot's Jive Turkey club nights are hugely respected as early adopters of house music where they played it alongside jazz/funk in the 80's, doesn't sound like your thing - but did you ever go?

[Better Midlands]

On the subject of remixes and Chris Rea, though, I am quite fond of the La Version Française of 'Josephine'.

One of the original balearic beats that, big tune for Danny Rampling at Shoom in '88.

[Better Midlands]

Does any phrase conjure up a more terrifying vision of sheer desolation than '88 remix'?

Quoted for truth

Ben Liebrand - In The Air Tonight
Thompson Twins - In The Name Of Love
Gibson Brothers - Cuba
Four Tops - Reach Out I'll Be There
Jackson 5 - I Want You Back
Blondie - Denis
Blondie - Heart Of Glass
Bryan Ferry - Lets Stick Together
Chic - Good Times
Diana Ross - Love Hangover

All had a literal "88 Remix" and all are shocking.

[monkfromhavana]

Quoted for truth

Ben Liebrand - In The Air Tonight
Thompson Twins - In The Name Of Love
Gibson Brothers - Cuba
Four Tops - Reach Out I'll Be There
Jackson 5 - I Want You Back
Blondie - Denis
Blondie - Heart Of Glass
Bryan Ferry - Lets Stick Together
Chic - Good Times
Diana Ross - Love Hangover

All had a literal "88 Remix" and all are shocking.

They all seem to be done by "professional musicians" rather than people actually involved with the house/acid scene, which probably explains why they're shit. Although, house producers weren't afraid to chuck out some turd remixes when offered fistfuls of moolah.

[gilbertharding]

Are they supposed to be 'house'? Is house the reason there are so many 88 remixes?

I'm fucked if I'm listening to them now - I was alive in 1988 and have no memory of hearing them then.

Fairly sure the day to day reality of The Club Scene in 1988 was more to do with the traditional no trainers Paco Rabanne dancing round your handbag lager tops and off duty sales reps on the pull than on one matey warehouse rave ups which didn't become mainstream until a bit later. Or am I wrong?

[the]

Ben Liebrand - In The Air Tonight
Thompson Twins - In The Name Of Love
Gibson Brothers - Cuba
Four Tops - Reach Out I'll Be There
Jackson 5 - I Want You Back
Blondie - Denis
Blondie - Heart Of Glass
Bryan Ferry - Lets Stick Together
Chic - Good Times
Diana Ross - Love Hangover

All had a literal "88 Remix" and all are shocking.

Let's [not] forget Car Wash, and Downtown by Petula Clark.

In a few instances there, weren't the 88 remixes spurred on by being sampled in other dance records? I Want You Back 88 surely only exists because of its use in the Norman Cook/Danny D remix of I Know You Got Soul, and Todd Terry had sampled In The Name Of Love.

[Jockice]

Jockice, DJ Parrot's Jive Turkey club nights are hugely respected as early adopters of house music where they played it alongside jazz/funk in the 80's, doesn't sound like your thing - but did you ever go?

Oh yes! I was a semi-regular. I had (and still have) a membership card and all that. The music may not have been what I was into at the time but that's not to say it wasn't good - plus there was a brilliant atmosphere.Although I didn't do dancing I look back incredibly fondly on it and I'm still friends with several people I met there. I bumped into and had a chat with Winston - the other main DJ along with Parrot - not long ago. He's a good bloke.

I once tried to write a feature on it for the local paper but the deputy news editor (who had awful middle of the road tastes) kept sending it back to me saying I hadn't specified exactly why it was unique. I tried the different mixes of music, different mixes of people bits but he just wasn't having it. I think he wanted me to say there was a live unicorn in the middle of the dancefloor or something. It's a young people's thing Peter. You wouldn't understand.

[Jockice]

Mark Brydon, the non singing one from Moloko was a co-writer and producer on this track.

And Sim Lister, another former member of Chakk, played sax on it.

[Jockice]

Are they supposed to be 'house'? Is house the reason there are so many 88 remixes?

Fairly sure the day to day reality of The Club Scene in 1988 was more to do with the traditional no trainers Paco Rabanne dancing round your handbag lager tops and off duty sales reps on the pull than on one matey warehouse rave ups which didn't become mainstream until a bit later. Or am I wrong?

That's one reason the aforementioned Jive Turkey was such a big thing in Sheffield. As this feature explains.  https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2013/11/nightclubbing-jive-turkey

[Better Midlands]

Oh yes! I was a semi-regular. I had (and still have) a membership card and all that. The music may not have been what I was into at the time but that's not to say it wasn't good - plus there was a brilliant atmosphere.Although I didn't do dancing I look back incredibly fondly on it and I'm still friends with several people I met there. I bumped into and had a chat with Winston - the other main DJ along with Parrot - not long ago. He's a good bloke.

I once tried to write a feature on it for the local paper but the deputy news editor (who had awful middle of the road tastes) kept sending it back to me saying I hadn't specified exactly why it was unique. I tried the different mixes of music, different mixes of people bits but he just wasn't having it. I think he wanted me to say there was a live unicorn in the middle of the dancefloor or something. It's a young people's thing Peter. You wouldn't understand.

I'm envious, there was meant to be some shit hot dancers there. From what I read it's the missing link between the Northern Soul clubs and the house explosion - a lot more progressive than the jazz/funk scene in the south.

[Better Midlands]

Let's [not] forget Car Wash, and Downtown by Petula Clark.

In a few instances there, weren't the 88 remixes spurred on by being sampled in other dance records? I Want You Back 88 surely only exists because of its use in the Norman Cook/Danny D remix of I Know You Got Soul, and Todd Terry had sampled In The Name Of Love.

You're spot on about I Want You Back, it's basically that remix with Eric B taken out and the original vocal put in.

I think a lot of it was to do with the popularity of DMC's (and similar) members only mix albums from that period, then the labels saw that you could get a hit and renewed interest in an artist for the price of a cheap remix.

[Better Midlands]

Fairly sure the day to day reality of The Club Scene in 1988 was more to do with the traditional no trainers Paco Rabanne dancing round your handbag lager tops and off duty sales reps on the pull than on one matey warehouse rave ups which didn't become mainstream until a bit later. Or am I wrong?

Totally, it was dire - they'd also play the house chart hits that you'd see on TOTP. Everywhere had at least one underground smaller club however playing house and hip hop all night, by the end of '89 the commercial clubs were dead.

[Jockice]

I'm envious, there was meant to be some shit hot dancers there. From what I read it's the missing link between the Northern Soul clubs and the house explosion - a lot more progressive than the jazz/funk scene in the south.

Blimey! I've just looked up this bit from a TV programme in the 80s. I was definitely there (I remember them filming it) and you know what, I might actually be in it. Check out 3.26 in. On the dancefloor but steadfastly not dancing. I can't say for definite if it's me but it certainly looks like me. Blimey again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmVxxH6tnh4

[Satchmo Distel]

Peter van Hooke and Rod Argent released the ITV 1986 World Cup theme under the act name Silsoe because Argent was living in a village of that name in Hertfordshire.

All About Eve had some undergraduate cred as a kind of knock-off Fairport Convention mixed with Goth. Tikaram is a one-hit wonder by comparison, I think.

Liz Kershaw had some Twitter spats recently because she attacks sexism except when it comes from her brother. No idea how she's lasted 30 years except as token female northerner.

[gilbertharding]

And there's this:

https://twitter.com/LizKershawDJ/status/1121492116360790017

Where she goes off the deep end, presuming the ChartMusic people were paying some kind of tribute to DLT. And ignoring the people who remembered the unfortunate story of Russell Joslin.

[Jockice]

And there's this:

https://twitter.com/LizKershawDJ/status/1121492116360790017

Where she goes off the deep end, presuming the ChartMusic people were paying some kind of tribute to DLT. And ignoring the people who remembered the unfortunate story of Russell Joslin.

And I knew more about Echo And The Bunnymen than her when she was on Celebrity Mastermind.

[monkfromhavana]

I'm envious, there was meant to be some shit hot dancers there. From what I read it's the missing link between the Northern Soul clubs and the house explosion - a lot more progressive than the jazz/funk scene in the south.

Winston (latterly of Forgemasters) was one of the Footworkers, the group of dancers who'd pretty much go between Sheffield and Manchester and dance. I think that kind of thing went out of fashion the more ecstacy came in, with Mike Pickering saying that the clientele at the Hacienda went from pretty mixed to most of the black people leaving in quite a short space of time.

Regarding these remixes, they're not necessarily "house" remixes, more club remixes with a slash of house over them. Mostly it was about sticking a shuffling break under any old track and adding an "AWWW YEAH!!!" sample every so often.

[buzby]

Quoted for truth

Ben Liebrand - In The Air Tonight
Thompson Twins - In The Name Of Love
Gibson Brothers - Cuba
Four Tops - Reach Out I'll Be There
Jackson 5 - I Want You Back
Blondie - Denis
Blondie - Heart Of Glass
Bryan Ferry - Lets Stick Together
Chic - Good Times
Diana Ross - Love Hangover

All had a literal "88 Remix" and all are shocking.

Not forgetting the terrible Blue Monday 88, remixed by Quincy Jones and Jon Potoker.
The other  thing that was picking up at this time for non-dance acts was the additional club-oriented remix 12" issued alongside the regular extended 12" release. FGTH were the forerunners of this, with a second (and even third) 12" being released with club-oriented mixes. True Faith was the first time New Order had done this, with the remix by Shep Pettibone, The PSBs were also doing this too, again with Pettibone and also Arthur Baker supplying the remixes, and The KLF alod did it with the 'Gary In The Tardis' remix 12" of Doctorin' The Tardis.

All About Eve had some undergraduate cred as a kind of knock-off Fairport Convention mixed with Goth. Tikaram is a one-hit wonder by comparison, I think.

Er, I think you'll find Tikaram was a two-hit wonder. Martha's Harbour was All About Eve's only UK Top 30 hit. tikaram was pretty much done in the UK after those first two singles, but they were Top 10 hits right across Europe as well (and it's not a major vs. indie thing, as by 1988 AAE were on Mercury/Phonogram)

[jamiefairlie]

Sod 4k HDR. Those saturated, fuzzy low res images from the Mexico sun is how all football coverage should look. Anything more than a 14" CRT is showing off.

Yes! All TV football looks the same now, direct from Mexico might as well be in Sheffield for all the difference. The atmosphere of the footage from 1970 and 1986 is so rich (the 'direct by satellite' audio quality really helps too).