Topic: Top of the Pops on BBC Four - Thread Two.

[gilbertharding]

We're at the point in my youth now with the repeats when I started to think that popular chart music was getting a bit rubbish. And the full hell of SAW is about to be unleashed. Oh, and is that Bros on the horizon?

I was 18 in 1987, so at this stage of the repeats I'm starting to recognise less and less from 'the first time around'. I think I'd pretty much been hate-watching it for a while.

Mind you - there was only ever supposed to be one or two records per episode anyone actually liked, wasn't there?

[Darles Chickens]

I'm not so sure. The B. Boys version of Start Wrekkin' came out while Star Trekkin' was still in the Top 20. It was also on a completely different indie label called Debut Edge Records (rather than The Firm's own label Bark Records), which was the home of Nigel Wright and used to put out his cash-in soundalike and megamix singles under names like Who'e That Blonde and Mirage (he was also the producer behind MC Miker G and DJ Sven,  who were also on Debut Edge).

The B. Boys single was released while Star Trekkin' was still in the Top 20 (though after it had been Number One), and the version on The Firm's album sounds completely different. I suspect that the B. Boys version was actually a quick Nigel Wright cash-in, and The Firm then covered it to use as filler on their album.

I wondered about the different labels in the past.  It definitely seems like a lot of effort to go to for the same team to put out two records on different labels.  What would be the point, other than to make them seem unrelated, and why would they want to do that?  (Maybe the shameful self-awareness of how crass it is to make a parody of what's already a joke single?)  If you look at discogs.com, you can see that Start Wrekkin' is attributed pseudonymously to "Bark" among others - a little hint maybe?

Someone on that YouTube video I posted stated with some authority:

This is The Firm. The version on Serious Fun was on the B side of this single.

No idea if that's true or not, having not heard the Demolition Version of Start Wrekkin'.  There are definitely some common elements in the two tracks though, even if the voices sound a bit different.

Still, this daft song has stayed with me ever since it came out, and the mystery of who it was continues to tease me.  It's one of those little bits of pop music folklore that's sadly a thing of the past now.  (See also: were 1300 Drums, of Ooh Aah Cantona "fame", a throwaway project of the KLF?)

[daf]

The melodies sound very familiar, particulary these parts :

Sta-a-ar Trekkin' - across the Universe

and

There's Klingons on the Starboard Bow, (Starboard Bow, Starboard Bow)

Are they playground skipping songs, or some old TV themes?

Someone take off my mental tight shoes - they're driving me mad!

[Darles Chickens]

We're at the point in my youth now with the repeats when I started to think that popular chart music was getting a bit rubbish. And the full hell of SAW is about to be unleashed. Oh, and is that Bros on the horizon?

Slightly ashamedly, I have to admit that this is reaching the golden era of pop for me.  I would've been around 11 or 12 at the time and had developed a big obsession with pop music back then, before branching out into more "serious" tastes like Faith No More, The Cure and so on.

So I'm quite looking forward to the whole SAW shitshow, as I still appreciate their songwriting and production, even if I wouldn't let it enter my ears these days.  I also quite liked Curiosity Killed the Cat and Johnny Hates Jazz.  Sorry.

[gilbertharding]

(Maybe the shameful self-awareness of how crass it is to make a parody of what's already a joke single?) 

I've said this before, but one of the first records I had (was given to me) was the Top of the Pops album which had a cover of Convoy GB. A cover of a parody of a novelty record.

(It's definitely on spotify if you want to hear some bad impersonations of Radio 1 djs doing comedy accents).

[Norton Canes]

Slightly ashamedly, I have to admit that this is reaching the golden era of pop for me.  I would've been around 11 or 12 at the time and had developed a big obsession with pop music back then, before branching out into more "serious" tastes like Faith No More, The Cure and so on.

So I'm quite looking forward to the whole SAW shitshow, as I still appreciate their songwriting and production, even if I wouldn't let it enter my ears these days.  I also quite liked Curiosity Killed the Cat and Johnny Hates Jazz.  Sorry

I'm enjoying the '87 shows far more than I thought I would. But yeah, the number of songs played on each show that I actually enjoy has dipped since the mid-80's shows.

[Phil_A]

The melodies sound very familiar, particulary these parts :and
Are they playground skipping songs, or some old TV themes?

Someone take off my mental tight shoes - they're driving me mad!

As mentioned by Buzby on the previous page, it's a rip-off of The Music Man.

[Captain Z]

And the full hell of SAW is about to be unleashed.

Wow, did not know Aphex Twin appeared on TOTP.

[daf]

As mentioned by Buzby on the previous page, it's a rip-off of The Music Man.

AAAAAAHHHHHHH - that's better! yes of course "Pia-Pia-Piano" and all that. (Thanks Phil & buzby!)

Should have known - Danny Baker used to play Rusty Goffe's version all the time : I play de bagpipes ~(skkkqurrrwrk!!)~

That's the Klingons bit sorted - any idea on the 'Sta-a-a-r Trekkin' one - or is it another from the Music Man?

[Uncle TechTip]

Nigel Wright and used to put out his cash-in soundalike and megamix singles under names like Who'e That Blonde and Mirage (he was also the producer behind MC Miker G and DJ Sven,  who were also on Debut Edge).

I must put my hand up here, Holiday Rap was produced and arranged by Dutch super remixer and DJ Ben Liebrand. I guess Wright brought it to this country. https://www.discogs.com/M-C-Miker-G-Deejay-Sven-Holiday-Rap/release/9571331

[Better Midlands]

I must put my hand up here, Holiday Rap was produced and arranged by Dutch super remixer and DJ Ben Liebrand. I guess Wright brought it to this country. https://www.discogs.com/M-C-Miker-G-Deejay-Sven-Holiday-Rap/release/9571331

Was gong to say the same, Liebrand produced Holiday Rap basically recreating Madonna's instrumental from the ground up. Nigel Wright produced the follow up Celebration Rap.

[buzby]

I must put my hand up here, Holiday Rap was produced and arranged by Dutch super remixer and DJ Ben Liebrand. I guess Wright brought it to this country. https://www.discogs.com/M-C-Miker-G-Deejay-Sven-Holiday-Rap/release/9571331

Liebrand produced Holiday Rap, which was licenced by their Dutch label High Fashion Music to Debut Edge in the UK (it fitted right in with the rest of their output). After it was a hit here the label wanted a follow-up so Wright produced Celebration Rap (based on the Kool & The Gang original and Sister Sledge's We Are Family),, which was the licenced back to High Fashion Music

[Better Midlands]

Ben Liebrand is a dance music god in The Netherlands, he inspired many of the Dutch producers from the late 80s Euro Dance generation to the big trance stars such as Tiesto and Ferry Corsten with his end of the year radio megamixes. There's a great interview with him here

https://youtu.be/HY0aj64xHNE

I never knew that he was responsible for the radio mix of Salt N Papa - Let's Talk About Sex that made a huge pop smash hit out of a rather drab album version.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Novelty rap by people that don't understand rap (as opposed to say, pitman or glc) is so awful. Stutter rap must be in the post.

[Satchmo Distel]

AAAAAAHHHHHHH - that's better! yes of course "Pia-Pia-Piano" and all that. (Thanks Phil & buzby!)

Should have known - Danny Baker used to play Rusty Goffe's version all the time : I play de bagpipes ~(skkkqurrrwrk!!)~

That's the Klingons bit sorted - any idea on the 'Sta-a-a-r Trekkin' one - or is it another from the Music Man?

Possibly Starman by Bowie, which in turn plunders 'Over The Rainbow'?

[daf]

2 July 1987: Presenter: Simon Bates

(11) ABC – When Smokey Sings
When Cameraman Sits
(16) ATLANTIC STARR – Always (video)
Never Mind the Ballads, Here's The Slushy One
(7) CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT – Misfit (Montreux clip)
Trouser Tuckers
- - - - - - - - - - - - (breakers) - - - - - - - - - - - -
(26) BLACK – Sweetest Smile
(23) BILLY IDOL – Sweet Sixteen
(17) A-HA – The Living Daylights
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(18) BROKEN ENGLISH – Comin' On Strong
Band of the 90s
(1) PET SHOP BOYS – It's A Sin
Confessions of a Smash Hits Assistant Editor



(GENESIS – interview) - CRINNNNGE!!!!
(19) SIMPLE MINDS – Promised You A Miracle (live video / credits)
Promised you a new Haircut (. . this one's bloody aw-ful)

[Sebastian Cobb]

I loathe that Simple Minds track (although the rest of my stance on Simple minds is 'New Gold Dream is brilliant').

Again, it's a sin is great.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Not specific to this - and probably just for buzby and perhaps duncan, but why is 'vidicon smear/trails' so much more prominent on pal/British content?

[buzby]

Again, it's a sin is great.

It's A Sin is probably my favourite PSB track. It's one of the rare ones where despite the detatched nature of Tennant's vocals, there is something personal to him in the lyrics. Although the song is all there in the original Bobby O-produced version, it sounds cheap and lifeless. The overblown, everything-including-the -kitchen -sink arrangement (The cream of the Fairlight experts were brought in to program the track - JJ Jeczalik, Andy Richards and PSB regular Blue Weaver) is perfect for the song, and Julian Mendelsohn's production Stephen Hague's remix are brilliant.

J. K. started a campaign in his Sun column against the song, accusing them of plagiarising Cat Stevens' Wild World and going as far as releasing a version of the Stevens song copying the arrangement of It's A Sin. King's single flopped and the PSBs took him to court over it. He settled out of court and they donated the damages to charity.

Not specific to this - and probably just for buzby and perhaps duncan, but why is 'vidicon smear/trails' so much more prominent on pal/British content?

It's probably because of the use of the EMI 2001 and Marconi Mk VII to Mk X cameras across most of the UK broadcasters, from the BBC's launch of colour in 1967 (though it would  be more accurate to call them Plumbicon trails, as the EMI and Marconi colour cameras used Philips Plumbicon imaging tubes rather than RCA Vidicon tubes). After going out of prodcution when EMI ceased camera production in the late 70s the 2001s slowly started being replaced, but stocks of spares and cannibalisation allowed Central to keep them in use until 1984, Thames until 1986 and the BBC only replaced their last ones in 1991 (at Elstree, where Central had left their ex-ATV ones behind which were subsequently used as spares). 

The US equivalent of the 2001 was the Norelco (the US arm of Philips) PC60 and PC70 (known as the Philips LDK I and LDK II in the rest of the world), which were in use by CBS from 1964 to 1990. Philips video camera division later merged with Bosch to become BTS.

Imaging tube technology carried on being developed up until the late 70s (like Hitatchi's Saticon, used in Sony and Ikegami cameras, and Toshiba's Pasecon), but the advent of CMOS CCD imaging sensors (the first professional-level CCD-based camera was the RCA CCD-1, introduced in 1983) eventually made them extinct. The BBC started replacing it's tube-based cameras with CCD-based Sony BVPs  and Philips/BTS LDK-90s from the mid-80s onwards.

The 'comet trails' effect only occurs when tube-based cameras were operated outside their designed lighting envelope - dark studios with bright point-source lighting (as found in the TOTP studio) were their 'worst-case' condition. In a bright, evenly-lit studio they would be a rare occurence. The other thing to remember is that a lot of US-sourced programmes that were shown in the UK were actually shot on film, rather than video.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Cheers buzby.

I was reading about LDK's the other day as it happens, apparently in the 80's Philips started making cameras with two image processing paths, essentially to make sure they could  expose both white and black people properly at the same time, I guess it's a bit like HDR today. They were quickly snapped up for things like Opera.

[Norton Canes]

Although the song is all there in the original Bobby O-produced version, it sounds cheap and lifeless

Ha, love the way it descends into bossa nova halfway through. 

The overblown, everything-including-the -kitchen -sink arrangement (The cream of the Fairlight experts were brought in to program the track - JJ Jeczalik, Andy Richards and PSB regular Blue Weaver) is perfect for the song, and Julian Mendelsohn's production Stephen Hague's remix are brilliant

And yet it's not the most epic single PSB released... we had to wait another year and a half or so for that.

[daf]

Quick heads up for anyone's planning to watch/record tonight's late night repeat : it's been replaced by episodes of 'The Missing' (and no saturday showings either).

[A Hat Like That]

I'm not so sure. The B. Boys version of Start Wrekkin' came out while Star Trekkin' was still in the Top 20. It was also on a completely different indie label called Debut Edge Records (rather than The Firm's own label Bark Records), which was the home of Nigel Wright and used to put out his cash-in soundalike and megamix singles under names like Who'e That Blonde and Mirage (he was also the producer behind MC Miker G and DJ Sven,  who were also on Debut Edge).

The B. Boys single was released while Star Trekkin' was still in the Top 20 (though after it had been Number One), and the version on The Firm's album sounds completely different. I suspect that the B. Boys version was actually a quick Nigel Wright cash-in, and The Firm then covered it to use as filler on their album.
It sounds cheap because it was cheap (it's bascially all performed on a DX7). And yes, it was the same The Firm (John O' Connor and Grahame Lister). They nicked the basis of the song from a bunch of Sealed Knot reenactors who came up with the original lyrics as a song to sing round the campfire to the tune of The Music Man, and who later took them to court over it.The Tight Fit of Back To The Sixties share nothing with the later The Lion Sleeps Tonight/Fantasy Island iteration ofther than a name and a record label. Both versions were monikers used by two different producers (Ken Gold in the medley era, Tim Friese-Green in the 'Lion' era) with different groups of session musicians.

cheers for the info.

[Norton Canes]

FUCKING HELL SHAKY

[Norton Canes]

GO GIRL!!

[Norton Canes]

Best Pops opener ever

[Norton Canes]

Was gonna comment on some of the other acts but frankly, my jaw is still on the floor.

[daf]

9 July 1987: Presenter: Gary Davies (Liverpool Invasion Special!!)

(26) SHAKIN' STEVENS – A Little Boogie Woogie (In The Back Of My Mind)
A Little Boogie Woogie (in the front of their trousers)
(5) A-HA – The Living Daylights (video)
From Norway With Love


https://www.flickr.com/photos/51106326@N00/sets/72157666018305362

(12) BLACK – Sweetest Smile
Smoky Sings
- - - - - - - - - - - - (breakers) - - - - - - - - - - - -
(22) GENESIS – Throwing It All Away
(21) JACKIE WILSON – (Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher & Higher
(16) MEL & KIM – FLM (Montreux clip)
(15) HEART – Alone
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(27) THE CHRISTIANS – Hooverville
3 Shades of Ray (Charles)
(1) PET SHOP BOYS – It's A Sin
Emulator III  *
(4) TERENCE TROUT F'RISBY – Wishing Well (video / credits)
French Bench

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* (It's a . .  it's a . .  it's a-a-a-a . . . . . it's a synth)

[daf]

Was gonna comment on some of the other acts but frankly, my jaw is still on the floor.

Incredible scenes!

(I also enjoyed Shaky's magnificently confident 'Man striding boldly across a zebra crossing' dance move - Take that, Jeffrey Daniel!)

[buzby]

2 July 1987: Presenter: Simon Bates

Fucking hell. Please hurry up and shuffle off to Radio 2.

(11) ABC – When Smokey Sings

The unhappiest girl in the TOTP studio is in Bates' intro link, presumably due to his vice-like grip on her shoulder. As for the song, it's produced by Bernie Edwards and is pleasant enough, but like most of their later material it can't hold a candle to anything off Lexicon Of Love.

(7) CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT – Misfit (Montreux clip)

Blimey, check out the girl on Bates' left in the link - she rivals Elaine from Seinfeld in the hair-to-bodyweight ratio stakes, and has used enough Silvikrin to keep Wella in business that year . Some of the worst miming ever in this Montreux 'performance'. As referenced by Bates, this was a re-release of their first single, which had peaked at #76 in September 1986. It just goes to show the random factor of having a hit, as I'd rate this well above Down To Earth and Ordinary Day.

(18) BROKEN ENGLISH – Comin' On Strong
Band of the 90s

Referring to my previous post about this, Bates' prediction is laughable. Shame the band had to give the backpacks and radios back to the props house from the video, though they let them keep the costumes.

(1) PET SHOP BOYS – It's A Sin

The Man In The Big Mac. Chris brings along their now-standard Emulator II and PPG Wave 2.3 (their Fairlight III has only appeared once so far - I expect it was too much hassle and risk of getting damaged), and they are joined by the TOTP rental Oberheim OB8. The man on the handheld camera on the floor is getting jostled by the crowd.

(GENESIS – interview) - CRINNNNGE!!!!

God, that interview was awful - not helped by Mike Rutherford holding the mic too far away so you can hardly hear what he's saying.