So Solid Corbs - 21 Deselections To Go

[Jobey]

Jeremy Corbyn is a massive fanny.

[Buelligan]

You'll probably say yes without even thinking about it but I wonder if they render the anuses in the Matrix? Considering they have to render out millions of avatars, I imagine the could save a huge amount of RAM and CPU time by not drawing the anus at all, or at the very least doing it as a low count polygon with a very basic texture.

Matthew 22:21

[pancreas]

Jeremy Corbyn is a massive fanny.

Proverbs 21:3

[Buelligan]

Genesis 27:11 I think you'll find.

[BlodwynPig]

I notice Theresa May has given a public eulogy to McCain but Corby hasn't. What a monster!

Wasn't he mocked relentlessly by the very same lickspittles when he ran for Prez?

[BlodwynPig]

40 days and 40 nights. Corbyn 4:1

[Buelligan]

I notice Theresa May has given a public eulogy to McCain but Corby hasn't.

I trust she took her teeth out first.

[BlodwynPig]

Well if ANYONE is any doubt that the BBC is fair and impartial, this should ease your minds

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-45329910/theresa-may-dons-her-dancing-shoes-in-sa

The visit - which will see Mrs May meet the presidents of all three countries - aims to deepen economic and trade ties with growing African economies ahead of Britain leaving the EU in 2019.

Scathing!


...and looks at those four associated stories below. Brutal! Whisky trade in Africa!

[biggytitbo]

Jeremy Corbyn is a massive fanny.

American or English vernacular?

[BlodwynPig]

American or English vernacular?

he meant finny, as in Sinn Finny.

[TrenterPercenter]

I don't really give a shit about him increasing Labour's vote tbh.  I do give a shit about him going on holiday during the EU Referendum campaign though.

So you are basically someone that has simply swallowed the well known coup line that he didn't campaign for remain and haven't been bothered to check whether this was true or not.

Great.  Can you now tell us what policies you support/don't support

[NoSleep]

I think they're more interested in wasting your time than knowing what actually went on, Trenter. Ignore.

[ZoyzaSorris]

We always need a couple of these twannies around in these threads to occasionally remind us the state of opinion out there in the Centrist Dad universe.

[Buelligan]

They're not often opinions - in the sense of being conclusions arrived at through logic based on independent thought - though are they?  When was the last time you read one and thought mmmm... that's a good point.

[pancreas]

I think it's what happens when you take no interest in politics outside of what it does specifically to you. Perhaps you've grown up on a diet of Thatcherite ideology that says you should always just vote in your own (apparently immediate) self-interest. So Mrs Wogancake is probably not a troll, but just quite ignorant of what the wider picture is and has no interest in how that wider picture affects anyone other than themselves. If you're generally liberal, reasonably well-off, reasonably well-educated, then Brexit is the only bad thing that's ever happened to you. (You're not being hauled onto a plane and sent 'back' to Jamaica, for example; or being put on Universal Credit and turfed out of your house because you can't afford the Bedroom Tax.) So you obsess over Brexit maniacally ('How can they have DONE this to me?') and look to blame anyone you can; that person is quickly supplied by the Guardian in this case—and it's Corbyn, we're told. Ironically, it's not so different to how the tabloids managed to convince the poorest areas of Britain to vote Brexit, completely against their own interests.

[biggytitbo]

The groupthink caused by msm journos predominately coming from a super narrow strata of society is one thing, but yeah I think the other thing for the likes of the Guardian CIF crowd is they're progressives to the point where it might cost them money - once they think their cushy tax arrangements, property prices and trust funds are at risk, thats when the labour leader becomes a dire threat to democracy.

[garnish]

The groupthink caused by msm journos predominately coming from a super narrow strata of society is one thing, but yeah I think the other thing for the likes of the Guardian CIF crowd is they're progressives to the point where it might cost them money - once they think their cushy tax arrangements, property prices and trust funds are at risk, thats when the labour leader becomes a dire threat to democracy.

Yes, I think that's the source of the centrist frustration with Corbyn supporters - it's clear to them that Brexit will hurt them financially and they can't understand why he remains popular, so the assumption is that the problem is pathological, i.e. Corbyn supporters are a cult.  A few minutes of self-reflection and empathy might lead the centrists to ponder on what life is like for people outside the centrist, middle class bubble; instead we just get repeated slurs about Corbyn being an anti-semite.

[TrenterPercenter]

Yep to his credit (ish) even TFM occasionally dallied into some talk of policy and economic philosophy (in between being a humungous rendered a-hole).

[manticore]

Great.  Can you now tell us what policies you support/don't support

Sorry for bringing up twitter again, but it's something very noticable among people there whose big theme is being anti-Corbyn because of anti-semitism or in one case because his shadow cabinet is 'macho' (specifically John McDonnell) that they just do not talk about what political ideas or policies they actually believe in or support. I asked the bloke who didn't like the 'macho' thing what positive things he believed in and got the most vague answer.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to describe yourself as a 'disillusioned lefty' or 'politically homeless' because in some ways I am myself, but with atos murdering people every day and people not having enough money to eat, if you're going to spend so much time attacking the opposition to that I want some idea of what you actually want done instead.

[biggytitbo]

It's because they support the status quo that serves them and their class so well. They're better than the tories in that they believe in tossing the plebs a fish every now and then to appease them, but only whilst wholeheartedly supporting the establishment consensus on literally every thing fundamental that matters. The problem is, at an almost exponential rate since 2007, that world view that has served them well for some long has totally unravelled and they have no meaningful answers as to what to do next.

That is, of course, the reason they have to make it so personal as they have nothing else essentially but more of the same. Kore of the same whilst smashing your head against a brick wall that is.

[Buelligan]

It's because they support the status quo that serves them and their class so well. They're better than the tories in that they believe in tossing the plebs a fish every now and then to appease them...

_{So long and thanks...}

[BlodwynPig]

_{So long and thanks...}

Biggytit with a porpoise

[Darles Chickens]

Yes, I think that's the source of the centrist frustration with Corbyn supporters - it's clear to them that Brexit will hurt them financially and they can't understand why he remains popular, so the assumption is that the problem is pathological, i.e. Corbyn supporters are a cult.  A few minutes of self-reflection and empathy might lead the centrists to ponder on what life is like for people outside the centrist, middle class bubble; instead we just get repeated slurs about Corbyn being an anti-semite.

No, if you ever wonder why people revile Corbynism as a cult, you need only read back through this thread, and the many before it. Putting things in terms of "us" and "them", where "them" now not only includes the Tories, but also those with the charming pejorative label of "centrist dads" doesn't help anyone - it just marks Corbynistas out as narrow-minded name callers who won't hear a word against their beloved leader.

Not everyone who doesn't support Corbyn is a middle-class home owner in the suburbs with an ISA and fashionable faux left-wing opinions, as Biggy would have us believe. You guys have got to accept that there are other reasons for having no confidence in Corbyn as a leader, despite how nice a lot of his policies sound.  I don't think Corbyn is an anti-semite; I think he's a somewhat naive man with his heart in the right place. I see him as an effective campaigner and protester, but not as an effective leader - and this has never been better demonstrated when looking at his performance leading up to GE2017, versus his ineffectual show most weeks at PMQs.

While I absolutely agree with not running public services for profit, and support an end to austerity by passing more of the tax burden onto corporations and high earners, certain other Corbyn policies like instantly abolishing university tuition fees don't make any sense in our current economic and social climate, and less so given his determination to not challenge the EU referendum result, even in a democratic manner like a third referendum. Abolition of tuition fees should be a long term goal, but not a instant bribe for young voters (who, in most cases, would never be able to personally benefit from that vote anyway).

The education system needs big reform, and there should certainly be subsidies, but why not (for example) encourage the best students into medicine, nursing or other in-demand professions with state subsidies right now, while the Government works on eliminating the deficit and starts focusing on improving public infrastructure and housing supply? Policies like this resonate far more with the general public, and Labour need to drop their reputation as a party which is reckless with the economy.

Under Corbyn, Labour will not get the majority support they require. Last poll I saw had them tying 40%/40% with the Tories. Of course the media are doing their damnedest to paint him in the worst possible light at the moment, but I'm afraid his past associations with controversial figures while he sits on his pro-Palestinian hobby horse don't help win him support. Of course Palestine isn't his exclusive obsession (and anyway, his concern for issues like this is commendable), but he comes across as someone who cares more about the Middle East than the UK. Yes, the media have done their job well there. When Nick Clegg's name was tarnished after the disastrous coalition, it was time for him to go. Unfortunately, I feel the same about Corbyn.

And this is nothing to do with being 'centrist'. I consider myself more aligned with Labour than the Lib Dems, but will vote Lib Dem next time simply because the seat is already a Lib Dem one, and they're the only party which speaks for me regarding the EU.  For me, the Brexit question is also not one of money - quite honestly, it's the least of my concerns. It's about identity and freedom. So, to me, people like Biggy, who project this notion of pro-EU people caring only about how it's going to hit their pockets, are just being crass.

[biggytitbo]

There is no Corbyn cult, what there is is an increasingly large number of people who realise that at the next election there are two choices, more of the same - whether thats tories or a new centralist labour leader, or genuine change for the first time in generations.


The latter is only going to happen with Corbyn, whether you think the sun shines out of his arse or not should be irrelevent. You either vote for some change or you vote for more of the same status quo slow death spiral - thats the choice - its totally, 100% pragmatic.

[pancreas]

and this has never been better demonstrated when looking at his performance leading up to GE2017, versus his ineffectual show most weeks at PMQs.

1) I think it was almost universally agreed that it was precisely his excellent performance leading up to GE2017 which brought Labour back from apparent oblivion. Perhaps you don't remember him on Question Time or during the debates. Perhaps you don't remember the rallies all round the country attracting tens of thousands, or the inspiration that people took from that which got them out on the doorstep campaigning. (Perhaps you weren't in a position to know about that if you weren't in the country.)

2) a) PMQs hardly matters to anyone, except wonks and for party morale; b) he was excellent most weeks. Even the Guardian gave him a 'win' more often than May.

While I absolutely agree with not running public services for profit, and support an end to austerity by passing more of the tax burden onto corporations and high earners, certain other Corbyn policies like instantly abolishing university tuition fees don't make any sense in our current economic and social climate, and less so given his determination to not challenge the EU referendum result, even in a democratic manner like a third referendum. Abolition of tuition fees should be a long term goal, but not a instant bribe for young voters (who, in most cases, would never be able to personally benefit from that vote anyway).

You don't seem to understand that tuition fees pumps up the unsustainable level of personal debt in this country abominably, with no apparent gain—most people will just have an enormous 6% interest rate hanging round their necks until their fifties. Possibly impacting on their ability to obtain a mortgage. It's not a zero sum game. See it as a capital investment in your workforce, if you like.

For me, the Brexit question is also not one of money - quite honestly, it's the least of my concerns. It's about identity and freedom.

Precisely to my point. I agree it's not about money, but this is where you have made it about you (the crux of your complaint which you have disingenuously hidden at the end). Never before has something happened like this so seriously to curtail your way of life. You're angry about it, I'm sure (I'm hardly happy about it) but unlike you I recognise that it's a product of fucking poor people over and over and constantly playing up everything for the Daily Mail. The Brexit disease is the direct result of Thatcherite centrism and triangulation. The antidote is Corbyn. And you need to take your medicine.

Plus: as if Nick Clegg is in any way comparable to Corbyn; it's ludicrous.

[Huxleys Babkins]

There is no Corbyn cult, what there is is an increasingly large number of people who realise that at the next election there are two choices, more of the same - whether thats tories or a new centralist labour leader, or genuine change for the first time in generations.


The latter is only going to happen with Corbyn, whether you think the sun shines out of his arse or not should be irrelevent. You either vote for some change or you vote for more of the same status quo slow death spiral - thats the choice - its totally, 100% pragmatic.

Why are you putting centrists in the same basket as the Tories? Floating centrist voters are the ones Labour need to get the numbers that will help put Corbyn in number 10. The ability to compromise with centrist parties is what will get Labour over the line if they get the opportunity to form a government.

If you think the centrists are a lost cause then Labour don't stand a chance. They are the only demographic you can swing far enough left to support a socialist Labour. The ToryKIPers aren't swinging.

[Artemis]

genuine change for the first time in generations.

Oh, bless.

[Darles Chickens]

1) I think it was almost universally agreed that it was precisely his excellent performance leading up to GE2017 which brought Labour back from apparent oblivion. Perhaps you don't remember him on Question Time or during the debates. Perhaps you don't remember the rallies all round the country attracting tens of thousands, or the inspiration that people took from that which got them out on the doorstep campaigning. (Perhaps you weren't in a position to know about that if you weren't in the country.)

Of course I do. I was absolutely invested in Corbyn back then, and voted Labour at the last GE. In campaign mode, he's very hard to dislike. However since then he's disappointed me and, at times, infuriated me.

2) a) PMQs hardly matters to anyone, except wonks and for party morale; b) he was excellent most weeks. Even the Guardian gave him a 'win' more often than May.

I've found his performance to be generally frustrating, with so many missed opportunities to really get a punch in. But as you say PMQs doesn't really matter. And on the occasions when he's been able to deliver his questions with real passion, I'm the first to get behind him. It never lasts long though.

You don't seem to understand that tuition fees pumps up the unsustainable level of personal debt in this country abominably, with no apparent gain—most people will just have an enormous 6% interest rate hanging round their necks until their fifties. Possibly impacting on their ability to obtain a mortgage. It's not a zero sum game. See it as a capital investment in your workforce, if you like.

I'm not against some kind of subsidy though. The cost of university education is obscene in the UK, and I agree that it's not right to burden graduates with a debt that some of them can never hope to repay.  I also put my cards on the table and say that I myself benefited from state subsidised university education when I was younger, and the hypocrisy of my position isn't lost on me.  But I don't think earmarking £100 billion on it is the right way to fix the problem either, unless it can be shown that the fiscal multiplier in practice is much higher. When I was 18, university wasn't considered to be the only option, and there were opportunities for all. This is what needs to be addressed; I don't accept the notion of going to university just because it's the societal norm, and then spending three years dossing and documenting it on Instagram, before going into a minimum wage job which you could've done without racking up the £50,000 debt. The end goal should be about making education accessible to everyone; I don't deny it enriches the individual, and our society, culturally. However, as I stated, the current economic and social climate means that now's not the time. There's too much else to fix first.

Precisely to my point. I agree it's not about money, but this is where you have made it about you (the crux of your complaint which you have disingenuously hidden at the end). Never before has something happened like this so seriously to curtail your way of life. You're angry about it, I'm sure (I'm hardly happy about it) but unlike you I recognise that it's a product of fucking poor people over and over and constantly playing up everything for the Daily Mail. The Brexit disease is the direct result of Thatcherite centrism and triangulation. The antidote is Corbyn. And you need to take your medicine.

Brexit is just one area where I ultimately feel let down by Corbyn. It's a big issue to me, but perversely, one which I feel in a better position to overcome, living in Spain, than the other 50-odd% in the UK who don't want Brexit and will lose their freedom and opportunities. I don't think it's the crux of my complaint, and I only added anything about it because I wanted to address your earlier assertion that we're all a bunch of well off liberals with a victim complex.  I'm mighty pissed off about it, largely because of how much it's going to cost just to be able to continue to live my life with my family exactly as I always have done, but I frankly feel more pain for those who are stuck with the results and can't do anything. It's a kind of sadness of seeing the decline of a country, probably the closest I'll ever feel to a patriotic urge.

Why are you putting centrists in the same basket as the Tories? Floating centrist voters are the ones Labour need to get the numbers that will help put Corbyn in number 10. The ability to compromise with centrist parties is what will get Labour over the line if they get the opportunity to form a government.

If you think the centrists are a lost cause then Labour don't stand a chance. They are the only demographic you can swing far enough left to support a socialist Labour. The ToryKIPers aren't swinging.

This is pretty much exactly what I was about to say next (but expressed more concisely and eloquently than I could!).  Please understand that my biggest beef with Corbyn is that I think he's holding the party back.  Don't suppose that hardcore Corbyn supporters make up the bulk of the 40% in the polls.  Plenty of those will be people who back the party in spite of Corbyn.  And plenty of the group you mention who've been fucked repeatedly by previous governments are now the real turkeys-voting-for-Christmas: a large number of those I went to school with, and went into the trades and so on at 16, are now your proper Tory-voting Brexit-supporting uber-nationalists.  Corbyn isn't speaking to these people, even though you'd think that he would.

[thugler]

Why are you putting centrists in the same basket as the Tories? Floating centrist voters are the ones Labour need to get the numbers that will help put Corbyn in number 10. The ability to compromise with centrist parties is what will get Labour over the line if they get the opportunity to form a government.

If you think the centrists are a lost cause then Labour don't stand a chance. They are the only demographic you can swing far enough left to support a socialist Labour. The ToryKIPers aren't swinging.

Where were all these labour centrist people when we had a centrist leader and lame half arsed centrist policies? And in the leadership election with a number of big name centrists to choose from.

There are more floating voters out there than just tory lite voters. The last election proved that proper labour policies are popular and we were not far off at all.

[Replies From View]

No, if you ever wonder why people revile Corbynism as a cult, you need only read back through this thread, and the many before it.

*QI KLAXON*


These threads feature people thinking things through and eloquently expressing views that run counter to those of the mainstream media that one is advised to absorb unthinkingly.  That is not what "cult" means.

It also doesn't mean "people I disagree with".