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March 28, 2024, 09:22:47 AM

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Gaspar Noe's Irreversible - violence

Started by Emma Raducanu, August 27, 2018, 08:43:31 PM

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Emma Raducanu

Does this film have the most realistic and horrendous depiction of violence or is there another film to hold that title? Got to be honest, I loved it and have never squirmed so much. I was astonished by how real the arm break, head-caving and rape was.

Small Man Big Horse

It's the only time I've watched a film at the cinema and had to stare at the floor as the violence was so distressing. I do admire the film a lot though, it's the only one of Noe's that I feel is incredibly effective as the post rape scenes were surprisingly touching.

Funcrusher

Quote from: DolphinFace on August 27, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
Does this film have the most realistic and horrendous depiction of violence or is there another film to hold that title? Got to be honest, I loved it and have never squirmed so much. I was astonished by how real the arm break, head-caving and rape was.

No, it's silly and over the top. I haven't seen it since it came out, but I seem to recall a scene where some guy who's a teacher or something like that hefts a fire extinguisher like he's Arnie and caves someone's head in like they're a Romero zombie. It's an Empire/Total Film readers idea of serious cinema.

greenman

I have to admit that's the kind of talk that's resulted in me never watching it.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Funcrusher on August 27, 2018, 09:01:14 PM
No, it's silly and over the top. I haven't seen it since it came out, but I seem to recall a scene where some guy who's a teacher or something like that hefts a fire extinguisher like he's Arnie and caves someone's head in like they're a Romero zombie. It's an Empire/Total Film readers idea of serious cinema.

I'd hardly describe that rape scene as 'silly'.

BlodwynPig

It's a horrible but engaging film. From the woozy opening scene where a paedophile apathetically recounting some sordid tale, to the descent into Hell's Rectum and back out again. The only film where I've seen the audience walk out in droves. After completing the viewing you somehow feel complicit in all that has gone on.

rue the polywhirl

I didn't feel this movie lived up to its name. The film is called Irreversible but on my DVD I was able to rewind and rewatch all my favourite scenes a hundred times over. A clear violation of the Sale Of Goods Act.

Emma Raducanu

Quote from: Funcrusher on August 27, 2018, 09:01:14 PM
No, it's silly and over the top. I haven't seen it since it came out, but I seem to recall a scene where some guy who's a teacher or something like that hefts a fire extinguisher like he's Arnie and caves someone's head in like they're a Romero zombie.

I was in shock watching this. It looks incredibly realistic to me. It's not that I'm a fan of cinematic violence but I was really shocked by it all; the sheer depravity. The torturous duration of the rape scene, the helplessness. Yeh, I've never seen anything like it.


Junglist

Its a phenomenal film. Incredibly brutal and hard to watch though. The only two films I'd say I've seen in a similar vein are Michael by Schleinzer and Miss Violence by Avranas. I Stand Alone I also found to be fairly disturbing.

Funcrusher

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on August 27, 2018, 09:40:39 PM
I'd hardly describe that rape scene as 'silly'.

I'd describe it as over the top, exploitative and attention grabbing edginess.

Wet Blanket

Quote from: DolphinFace on August 27, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
Does this film have the most realistic and horrendous depiction of violence or is there another film to hold that title?

Salo is pretty unflinching and relentless. I almost couldn't finish my popcorn.

Moribunderast

Quote from: Junglist on August 27, 2018, 11:18:30 PM
Its a phenomenal film. Incredibly brutal and hard to watch though. The only two films I'd say I've seen in a similar vein are Michael by Schleinzer and Miss Violence by Avranas. I Stand Alone I also found to be fairly disturbing.

Was Michael the paedo one? I fucking hated that. I'm a fan of all manner of gory and depressing films but that just seemed so cruel and antiseptic that I can't really argue it has a reason to exist, other than to shock or disgust.

Anyway, I feel like a handful of Australian films would be worthy of discussion in terms of grim, realistic violence. The Boys, Snowtown, Animal Kingdom, Hounds Of Love. All feature some variant of torture and callous, unflinching cruelty shown in a way that highlights the mundanity and emptiness in some forms of extreme violence.

Shit Good Nose

Kill List and most of Nicolas Winding Refn's American films have moments of similarly realistic violence.

Junglist

Quote from: Moribunderast on August 28, 2018, 02:48:15 PM
Was Michael the paedo one? I fucking hated that. I'm a fan of all manner of gory and depressing films but that just seemed so cruel and antiseptic that I can't really argue it has a reason to exist, other than to shock or disgust.


Yeah, story of a paedo kidnapping a young boy. It shies away from showing anything, really, but one scene is utterly hideous.


Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Funcrusher on August 27, 2018, 11:30:07 PM
I'd describe it as over the top, exploitative and attention grabbing edginess.

All explicit depictions of extreme violence in cinema could be accussed of that though? Can you give me an example of where you didn't think a brutal sexual assault scene in a film wasn't exploitative?  My ex partner thought the act should never be shown on screen so you could be entirely in her camp. She did make quite a strong case.

Funcrusher

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on August 28, 2018, 06:24:31 PM
All explicit depictions of extreme violence in cinema could be accussed of that though? Can you give me an example of where you didn't think a brutal sexual assault scene in a film wasn't exploitative?  My ex partner thought the act should never be shown on screen so you could be entirely in her camp. She did make quite a strong case.

I think that generally explicit depictions of extreme violence don't add much of substance. I seem to remember that 'Mysterious Skin' has a scene like that, and would be an example of a film that is a good deal less schlocky than 'Irreversible'.

willy crossit

Quote from: rue the polywhirl on August 27, 2018, 09:59:57 PM
I didn't feel this movie lived up to its name. The film is called Irreversible but on my DVD I was able to rewind and rewatch all my favourite scenes a hundred times over. A clear violation of the Sale Of Goods Act.

Absolutely. Worst case of false advertising since Mike Leigh's Naked

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Movie trivia time: The first thirty minutes of the film features a very low frequency tone in the soundtrack, which apparently causes nausea and unease in humans. I think the man getting his head stoved in and the rape unsettled me more tbh

http://thefilmfatale.me/post/59658023878/the-first-30-minutes-of-gaspar-no%C3%A9s-irreversible

checkoutgirl

#19
I won't say I loved this film when I watched it because that's the wrong word but I was duly impressed by it. The rape scene is horrible but it serves a purpose in the overall film. Shot backwards like Memento the brutality and queasy soundtrack give way to preceding scenes of calm and contentment. It's a philosophical headfuck and provokes strong reactions. The people who don't like it hate it and can't critique evenhandedly.

I think it's a great film, essential even, but I'll never watch it again. It's way too harrowing for repeated viewings and I would issue forth that it would be better to see this as a more open minded and naive young adult of 21 than someone who is middle aged. I can imagine older people being angered by it but that's just a theory, don't hold me to it.

I also liked Noe's I Stand Alone but could not get more than a few minutes into Enter the Void.

olliebean

Quote from: willy crossit on August 28, 2018, 07:03:23 PM
Absolutely. Worst case of false advertising since Mike Leigh's Naked

I take it Marlon Wayans' Naked was more to your taste?

holyzombiejesus


Funcrusher


Emma Raducanu

Quote from: checkoutgirl on August 28, 2018, 07:55:24 PM
I also liked Noe's I Stand Alone but could not get more than a few minutes into Enter the Void.

Noe's Love was dull as dishwater. However, it does amuse me that it's basically a porno and being reviewed by the Times and Telegraph etc.

Z

My biggest issue with Irreversible is that Noe used a gay BDSM club as his setting for "disorienting gross depravity". It works in the film but only by playing up to and reinforcing stereotypes about certain homosexual men that many in the audience would have. Tbh I'm not sure I can think of another (fake) setting that would've suited Noe's aesthetics as well but it's still pretty shitty.

Emma Raducanu

Genuine question: What is that stereotype?

Z

Quote from: DolphinFace on August 28, 2018, 09:25:54 PM
Genuine question: What is that stereotype?
Okay, in advance I'm just gonna apologise for whatever shit I'm about to say...


That gay men are mad into reckless depraved sex and so on?

I dunno if it's post-AIDS panic type stuff or whatever but a film is able to get away with a sinister vibe for a gay sex club that it just wouldn't be for a straight one. Can I think of another _vaguely_ plausible setting where that scene would've been as effective on a visceral level? I can't. Do I think it's kinda shitty in a way that's hard to justify doing? Yes.
That's either preying on some latent homophobic notions of the audience or it's just something about it being difficult to present a sinister vibe from sensory overload when loads of female bodies are featured given what that usually means in films (i.e. here's the sexy club scene!). I really don't have to vocabulary to make my point.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: Z on August 28, 2018, 09:42:43 PM
I really don't have to vocabulary to make my point.

It's impossible to say anything negative about men's sexuality, particularly gay men's sexuality, without the pitchfork wielding liberal coming out giving out shit. But the fact is men are generally more depraved, will go further to satisfy and urge and take more risky sexual risks than women. Men generally look and are more threatening and are more violent than women. That's just fact.

A stronger argument would be why is the Tenier gay? He's hanging around a quite extreme gay club and doesn't rape Bellucci because he's straight, more likely because of power trip. But then it's not the kind of film that I think benefits much from being unpacked with a view to discussing sexual politics. It seems to be taking aim more at a philosophical idea, time destroys everything.

When Noe was making this film I doubt the foremost thing in his mind was political correctness although he did still nod to that by putting himself in the fire extinguisher scene as a guy wanking while he watches the brutal murder unfold. His rationale being how can I see myself as above these men? I literally am one of them.

Incidentally the fire extinguisher scene looked slightly unrealistic to me in that the guy's head must have taken 15 extremely hard hits and still hadn't disintegrated where in real life I think it would have imploded after 3 or 4 good whacks.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: checkoutgirl on August 28, 2018, 10:01:24 PM
It's impossible to say anything negative about men's sexuality, particularly gay men's sexuality, without the pitchfork wielding liberal coming out giving out shit. But the fact is men are generally more depraved, will go further to satisfy and urge and take more risky sexual risks than women. Men generally look and are more threatening and are more violent than women. That's just fact.

et Baise-moi?

Cuntbeaks

This thread instigated me checking out what Noe was up to these days. Turns out his new film, Climax, is out shortly.

Fame on acid, apparently.