True Detective Series 3

[kngen]

I thought season 2 was hilariously bad - that Vince Vaughan monologue about his childhood, the aforementioned sucking a robot's dick line, Colin Farrell's Ralph Wiggumish son - and I will watch the fuck out of the new one if it's anywhere near as funny as that. I liked season 1 but reading it backwards through the miasma of shit that was season 2, I was maybe giving the writing too much credit - I think we were supposed to find Cole superdeep rather than faintly ludicrous.

The worst thing about season 2 is that it really made you see the cracks in season 1, ones that two amazing performances and some brilliant direction distracted you from, as Mister Six says.

[selectivememory]

Vince Vaughn was fucking ace in season 2 tho'. Really really good.

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

The first series was good - maybe even great - but I'm convinced that it wouldn't have been nearly as well received if it weren't for that one single take robbery scene and the suggestion of Lovecraftian themes. If the baddies had just spouted a load of neo nazi shite, instead of cryptic references to The Yellow King (that ultimately went nowhere) I don't think it would have captured people's imaginations.

[mothman]

I note that some feel the second season showed up the limitations of the first, that it wasn't that great after all, and maybe even feel the reason s1 is held in high regard at all is solely because s2 wasn't good. Others - like me - feel s1 is all the better because s2 wasn't good. It's a funny old world.

[NoSleep]

The first series was good - maybe even great - but I'm convinced that it wouldn't have been nearly as well received if it weren't for that one single take robbery scene and the suggestion of Lovecraftian themes. If the baddies had just spouted a load of neo nazi shite, instead of cryptic references to The Yellow King (that ultimately went nowhere) I don't think it would have captured people's imaginations.

I can't remember a single point where the occult stuff threatened to turn the season in the direction of "unnameable horror"; it was always about the power that such belief in the otherworldly, whether it be witchcraft or christianity, could hold over ordinary people. And then they spoilt it all at the end by Cohle having his conversion to a belief in the afterlife (unless that implied he was just as prone as anybody else to such belief). Was that meant to imply that there was something in the beliefs of the occultists and the christians earlier (because it wasn't apparent)?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Wasn't Cohle's conversion from being a hardened pessimist to an optimist? To be honest, I haven't watched it since it was first broadcast, so I might be way off in my recollection. However, I certainly remember the Yellow King references getting people interested more than they would have been if it was replaced with Christian dogma or somesuch.

[NoSleep]

What I meant was that there was at no time, in the world of TD1, where it was implied that the Yellow King stuff was "real" (which would be the case in a Lovecraftian world).

Wasn't Cohle's conversion from being a hardened pessimist to an optimist?

He had a near death experience where he believed he met his dead wife, with the emphasis on believed.

[kngen]

I can't remember a single point where the occult stuff threatened to turn the season in the direction of "unnameable horror"; it was always about the power that such belief in the otherworldly, whether it be witchcraft or christianity, could hold over ordinary people.

I dunno. It definitely flirted around that kind of thing - there was some downright eerie shit that led you to believe that something truly unearthly was taking place. The 'sometimes you find monsters' slo-mo bit at the end of Ep 2 (I think?) which I felt a bit foolish for scaring the shit out of me when it turned out to be a meth cook in his pants. The really unsettling picture of the girl surrounded by what looked like wiccan horsemen in the mother's trailer. The snuff/ritual sacrifice video that Cohle had to turn his back on and stare at the wall/garage door while he showed it to Hart (which surely was a little nod to Blair Witch, or is that just me?). Hart's daughters recreating the murders with dolls and drawings (again, another red herring, but one that really contributed to the feeling they were battling some unnameable, immutable force of nature).

If I have one criticism of the direction, it's that these were all pointing to a climax/revelation that the script couldn't possibly deliver on. Some redneck sister-shagger who puts on funny voices didn't really cut it after all that.

[NoSleep]

As suggestively disturbing as some scenes were, there was never a point at which it tipped over into a world where those things might be real (except in the minds of the people possessed by their own beliefs).

The "sometimes you find monsters" bit (if I'm remembering the correct scene) was more akin to Texas Chainsaw Massacre than something supernatural.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

It never had to go full on Cthulhu monsters and it would have been stupid if it did. For a certain sort of meme regurgitating, bacon worshiping, TV Tropes editing internet denizen though, Lovecraft is pure catnip. Just the mere suggestion of that sort of thing was enough to get tongues wagging.

[non capisco]

If I have one criticism of the direction, it's that these were all pointing to a climax/revelation that the script couldn't possibly deliver on. Some redneck sister-shagger who puts on funny voices didn't really cut it after all that.

Exactly this. 6 and a half episodes of what felt like a slow boat ride into hell diverted at the last minute to a crap ghost train.

[Rev+]

As suggestively disturbing as some scenes were, there was never a point at which it tipped over into a world where those things might be real (except in the minds of the people possessed by their own beliefs).

There was one:  the birds configuring into the swirly rune symbol when nobody's looking at them.  That moment really stands out as either a flourish of the type that the series didn't usually do, just for effect, or as a suggestion that something's humming in the back.

[kngen]

I just watched - cos I want to walllow in its wonderfulness again - the first 10 minutes of S1E1. Kohl hasn't even made his big speech yet and you know exactly where you stand. Flashbacks, speeches to camera, total beguilement. It does in 10 mins what S2 couldn't manage in three episodes (and then they had to reboot, due to terrible, terrible writing). Not exactly breaking new ground here, but goddamn, they took the source material and make it fucking sing.

[Mister Six]

The first series was good - maybe even great - but I'm convinced that it wouldn't have been nearly as well received if it weren't for that one single take robbery scene and the suggestion of Lovecraftian themes. If the baddies had just spouted a load of neo nazi shite, instead of cryptic references to The Yellow King (that ultimately went nowhere) I don't think it would have captured people's imaginations.

Aye, and The Godfather wouldn't have been as well received if it were about a bingo hall in Doncaster.

I don't think True Detective is much cop - no pun intended - but this is a weird argument.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I say lots of weird stuff. The Bingodfather would be a fundamentally different film though. I'm talking about a few small changes to the script and direction of True Detective.

[Mister Six]

But changes that fundamentally alter the tone and content of the show.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I (fundamentally) disagree.

Would the robbery scene have been any less tense if it had been shot and edited in a traditional fashion? I say no, but it would have had far fewer people raving about its technical virtuosity. Would the baddies have been less sinister if their rantings came from the Book of Revelation instead of the Necronomicon? Again, no, but it would have prompted far less excited chatter about what it all meant.

[Mister Six]

Yes, if you take out the things that are intriguing and exciting, people will be less intrigued and excited.

I don't get your point.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I am trying (poorly it seems) to suggest that the show was a bit overrated based on what seem to me like gimmicks.

Maybe I'm talking bobbins though. I'm probably still just a bit peeved that Hannibal never seemed to get the same level of attention.