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Eminem - Kamikaze

Started by up_the_hampipe, August 31, 2018, 09:00:56 AM

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up_the_hampipe

Well, blimey. I knew he wanted to prove something after the negative response to Revival, but I didn't expect him to drop another album so quickly. There's features from Joyner Lucas and Royce Da 5'9, and the cover is an homage to Beastie Boys' Licensed To Ill. Much better to see. Please be good.

up_the_hampipe

Okay, just listened through it all. Might need to go back to see what I've missed. It's essentially a diss album to all the critics of Revival, and there's a lot of names being dropped. The Tyler The Creator diss is most likely going to cause some controversy (calls him a 'faggot'), but other than that it's great to hear him fire shots in all directions. As Paul Rosenberg mentions on his skit, it's probably not a good idea to make a whole album whining about people who didn't like the last album, but damn is it good to hear Eminem all fired up again. He's got Dre back on production and he's much more focused. Certainly a step in the right direction, but let's see if it holds up after the initial surprise.

mr. logic

It's excellent. He answers pretty much everybody, by name. The first song, with the extended riff on the Trump situation, is the best he's done in a decade.

Ja'moke

He's sooooo insecure. An entire new album because the critics didn't like Revival. Eminem didn't used to give a fuck... now he gives too many.

That said, on first listen it's far better than Revival (not that that takes much doing), and the production is actually pretty nice for the first time on an Em album since Relapse. Will give it a more in depth listen later.

Clownbaby

Wait what what what Eminem new album already what?

Off to have a listen

"Tried not 2 overthink this 1" guys, he's learning. Good on ya lad.

Malcy

Nice surprise this morning but based on his recent releases I'm not expecting the music to be as good as the Beastie Boys cover art homage though.

And no Dre beats again which is a big downside. Will stick it on with a cuppa and a spliff later and hope for the best!

popcorn

Opens with "I wanna punch the world in the fuckin face right now", ie opens with a cliche, fuck off Eminem!!!

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: popcorn on August 31, 2018, 11:37:42 AM
Opens with "I wanna punch the world in the fuckin face right now", ie opens with a cliche, fuck off Eminem!!!

Well, at least you gave it a chance.

Clownbaby

Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, what's the story with Em and Tyler? I thought they got on. Did Tyler say Revival was shit or something?

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Clownbaby on August 31, 2018, 11:56:00 AM
Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, what's the story with Em and Tyler? I thought they got on. Did Tyler say Revival was shit or something?

He said Walk On Water and Shady XV were shite. Now Eminem seems to be implying that Tyler only said he's gay so people would pay attention to him again.

thugler

Production pretty weak as usual. Impressive flow but always just sounds like he's trying to sound as impressive as possible rather than thinking about how it works for the song. Bit exhausting after a while. The poppier tunes are pretty cheesy and embarrassing as usual too, don't try and sing em!

Bhazor


Clownbaby

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on August 31, 2018, 11:59:08 AM
He said Walk On Water and Shady XV were shite. Now Eminem seems to be implying that Tyler only said he's gay so people would pay attention to him again.

Ah right

Ja'moke

Quote from: thugler on August 31, 2018, 12:02:46 PM
Production pretty weak as usual.

At least there are no corny rock/pop beats.

These beats on Kamikaze aren't anything special, some even kinda dull, but they're at least kinda listenable and don't make me want to immediately switch off. It's sad that "at least kinda listenable" is where we're at with Eminem these days.

mr. logic

'Revival didn't go viral.'

I'm loving this album.

mr. logic

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on August 31, 2018, 11:59:08 AM
He said Walk On Water and Shady XV were shite. Now Eminem seems to be implying that Tyler only said he's gay so people would pay attention to him again.

All this hate, I call it Walk on Watergate.

I think he's in a weird posistion on Revival. There's enough lines here to suggest he knows how bad it was, but to acknowledge it outright would take the sting out of all the responses to its critics. He's a devisive figure, but I can't help but love and respect the artistry of somebody with his money and achievements being so protective of his creations. Really makes me root for him. His posistion on Trump in much more coherant on this one as well.

Also, he's always been insecure. On The Eminem show he has a verse complaining about his Source ratings.

Utter Shit

Quote from: Ja'moke on August 31, 2018, 12:42:23 PM
At least there are no corny rock/pop beats.

These beats on Kamikaze aren't anything special, some even kinda dull, but they're at least kinda listenable and don't make me want to immediately switch off. It's sad that "at least kinda listenable" is where we're at with Eminem these days.

He's music's version of The Simpsons at this point, he's been shit for longer than he was good.

If it stoked a fire in him that led to a fantastic album then I'm fully behind him, but the target of his anger seems to be the negative reviews of his last album...it was bollocks though, as a hip-hop fan he must be aware of this? I mean more or less every song had the same structure - big, rock-style drums, basic melodies, guest hooks and simple flows. Pop rap, basically. Not even good pop rap, either.

Even when he's scraping the barrel there's always *something* good there, so I'm looking forward to hearing this the same way I always am for his albums, though with an expectation of disappointment. He still throws out just enough signs that he's still got genius in him - Bad Guy off...the album before Revival, I forget the name...is an astonishing song, up there with anything he's ever made IMO.

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Utter Shit on August 31, 2018, 01:05:03 PM
He's music's version of The Simpsons at this point, he's been shit for longer than he was good.

I don't agree with that, and it's those sentiments that he's pissed off about, more than people just not liking his recent album. It's pretty clear he's still sharper than most rappers around, and he busts out some incredible verses fairly regularly, so to hear people saying "Eminem sucks now" must be fucking frustrating when you're that talented. Revival was a poor showing, but even then, the last two tracks were incredible, some of his best storytelling. MMLP2 and Relapse are also very underrated albums generally.

Clownbaby

I second Relapse. He doesn't seem too fond of it himself but I think it's mint. It has a running sound and theme throughout, flows well, nice production, very funny, very spooky, makes a great Halloween album.

Utter Shit

#19
Quote from: up_the_hampipe on August 31, 2018, 02:48:42 PM
I don't agree with that, and it's those sentiments that he's pissed off about, more than people just not liking his recent album. It's pretty clear he's still sharper than most rappers around, and he busts out some incredible verses fairly regularly, so to hear people saying "Eminem sucks now" must be fucking frustrating when you're that talented. Revival was a poor showing, but even then, the last two tracks were incredible, some of his best storytelling. MMLP2 and Relapse are also very underrated albums generally.

If he wasn't so talented no one would be so annoyed that his output has been so bad. He should be pissed off that people are saying it, but pissed off at himself for betraying his talent by putting out sub-par albums! In his defence I think a lot of this is mitigated by the fact that he was completely wrecked mentally and physically for much of his off-years, but the fact remains that a lot of his albums post-TES have just been crap IMO.

Everything has to be taken in historical context - his first two full albums, SSLP and MMLP, are *astonishingly* good, as in top twenty of all hip-hop albums in my opinion, possibly even top ten. It would be no shame if he never managed to reach those heights again, plenty of artists have exploded onto the scene with a stunning debut and continued to be great without quite ever being that good again. Eminem is not an example of that, to me - his more recent stuff isn't just 'not quite as good as his best', but just not very good.

The Eminem Show was, by general standards, a great album, but was a step down from those first two. Understandable, the bar was insanely high. But that's been the story ever since, a general trend downwards to the point where his albums in recent years have been outright bad. Revival was terrible, and was rightly panned - the fact that he's still capable of brilliance (pretty much every guest appearance with someone he respects is still great - Caterpillar and Forever being obvious examples) doesn't mitigate that fact, it makes it WORSE!

I really don't think I'm being unfair at all, I was a huge Eminem fan as a youngster and still listen to those albums regularly now. There is something on just about every album bar Revival that reminds you how incredible he can be - Bad Guy off MMLP2 is up there with anything he's ever done, and is a worthy sequel to Stan which I would have thought was simply not possible.

For me he had a great run from when he first arrived (Infinite is very much a demo album but shows what an insane talent he was, particularly the title track, while the SSEP hinted at how great the full album would be) until The Eminem Show, three or four years where he really was unstoppable. Your mileage may vary on where the fall-off begins, but I would personally say that everything from TES onwards has been a disappointment to varying degrees. Some of it is almost entirely terrible (Encore, Relapse Revival), some of it is patchy with moments of inspiration (MMLP2, Recovery) but none of it is even close to TES, let alone those first two albums. So for me, while acknowleding that he set the bar so high he was always going to struggle to meet expectation, I'd split him into pre-2005 great, post-2005 not great.

EDIT: Honestly it makes me sad to even talk about him in this way because he's probably the closest thing I've ever had to an idol, I was obsessed with him as a teenager. He is without a doubt one of the greatest of all time, as is generally accepted by most of the other rappers that would be in that discussion. Nas, Jay, Rakim, Black Thought, KRS. No rapper has ever excited me or enthralled me like he has done. And even though I think he has been mostly awful for over a decade, he still breaks through that overall feeling with moments of utter, utter genius that give me hope he'll release another classic. His verse on Forever is unreal, and the reaction he gets on this video when he comes out as a surprise guest is real goosebumps stuff. Terrible video quality but the crowd reaction comes through...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jGXTNcYE40

EDIT again cos that video put me down a Youtube hole: talk about chills, the crowd reaction to Jay coming out in this video is just completely mental. Imagine getting to experience that, fucking hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOdGI7BMVsI

Ja'moke

Relapse is his last really good album I think, though the accents do grate on certain tracks. But the production is fantastic, his rhyme schemes are incredible without resorting to "fast-rapping" which seems to be his go-to trick now since Rap God, and as Clownbaby points out, it has a theme and it sticks to it.

Eminem albums these days are all over the shop, musically and lyrically, even within the same track sometimes. You might get 30 seconds of greatness followed by a corny punchline about poop or teabagging a microphone (on this new album) or an out of place Joan Jett sample.

Malcy

Enjoyed 'Stepping Stone' but really underwhelmed by the production. Think he could have said it all over a couple of track rather than an album.

chveik

Funny there's a thread about this awful album and not about the new Denzel Curry.

Utter Shit

Is that funny that the most famous rapper in the world is more likely to create discussion than some bloke I don't think I've ever heard of?

Johnny Textface

Quote from: chveik on September 01, 2018, 03:25:27 PM
Funny there's a thread about this awful album and not about the new Denzel Curry.

Who is the new Denzel Curry then?

Z

Quote from: Utter Shit on August 31, 2018, 03:59:28 PM
If he wasn't so talented no one would be so annoyed that his output has been so bad. He should be pissed off that people are saying it, but pissed off at himself for betraying his talent by putting out sub-par albums!
His talent is really fucking awkward though, really. Much more a savant than a fully rounded rapper.

Like, technically he's outstanding, he's able to structure rhymes and shit in a ridiculously intricate way, but he's emotionally quite immature and on the whole doesn't seem to be exceptionally intelligent or able to deviate from his usual range of topics.
I wonder if part of the reason why he seems to never work with any good producers (beyond Dre) or collaborate is just because he's quite awkward to work with.

I hope he knew this was the kind of no-win situation that it is. This album's purpose, for him, shouldn't be to be a return to form or anything of the sort, just a statement that he's gonna keep trying and that it may not be as awful as Revival implied it may be.

Why'd he target Tyler btw? Seems like a really bad choice when his last album was so good



Denzel Curry's kind of repeatedly underwhelmed me so I haven't checked out the new album. He's obviously good but each release seems to get such a wave of hype in my circles that I'm pretty much waiting for one to be getting "this is album of the decade" level hype for me to believe it.
ULT is a great tune, the sheer energy of the guy is impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8VO4Rm3ulw


Clownbaby

#27
On people finding Em's childish cattiness grating, I'm thinking this is just him. He's not ever going to stop with the crassness. It's one of the reasons why I find him so entertaining to listen to. He'd lose some appeal for me if he suddenly came out with an album that was completely dead cold wit and didn't mention his d i c k once. On a whole I think this album is a lot of fun and really spiky. I'm feeling that manic rising-panic-in-the-voice til it goes all Dalek-y momentum that has been missing recently and he sounds connected to what he's rapping rather than just robotically spewing out words. There's still the odd clunky moment, like the sing-song bit in the middle of The Ringer where he talks about someone sending him MMLP to study from- I found that a bit awkward the way it was delivered- but not enough to unravel a whole song. Yeah he's still astoundingly immature but to me anyway there's the right undercurrent of seething crabbiness to give it some weight. The lad CANNOT be topped for the amount of character in his voice.

I'm really enjoying Kamikaze, Greatest, The Ringer, Fall and Not Alike. He seems to be a lot more focused on a particular point and it links all my favourite tracks together, so you've got 5 fairly solid piss take tracks where he's clearly having a gay (ha) old time referencing mumble rap and other stuff like that. He seems to be embracing his possibly alienated mid-40s perspective and letting himself be just really cantankerous and sarcastic and bitter, which we all know was still there all along. I'm perfectly happy with Em crabbin' on about people and things that piss him off because it feels a lot more reactionary and zingy than his other tendency to mull over his creative process and umm and aaaah about where his place is in rap now. Don't overthink Em, just do. And you are. Good stuff.

Noodle Lizard

Jeeesus.  Is this just what he does now?  Release a bad album, and then release a reaction to how bad it was almost immediately after?  Wasn't this the same deal with Relapse/Recovery? (haven't listened to all of Kamikaze yet, but Recovery was certainly even worse than Relapse in my book)

There's a point where you're in your 40s, you have a family and you've just got to face that you're not gonna be as hungry as you were in your 20s when you had nothing, or when you were just coming to terms with being famous or whatever.  There's no shame in becoming "lame", but do it with some dignity, at least.

P.S.  Since when did Eminem start dropping the N-bomb so casually?  One thing I liked about his earlier stuff was how deliberately reticent he was to do so in spite of his "controversial" reputation.

Ja'moke

Quote from: chveik on September 01, 2018, 03:25:27 PM
Funny there's a thread about this awful album and not about the new Denzel Curry.

The new Denzel Curry album is immense. Definitely one of my favourites of the year, and probably the best project he's put out. Some proper dark, gnarly beats on that thing. It's called TABOO for people who are interested in checking it out.

QuoteP.S.  Since when did Eminem start dropping the N-bomb so casually?  One thing I liked about his earlier stuff was how deliberately reticent he was to do so in spite of his "controversial" reputation.

I don't think he's ever dropped the N-word in any of his songs other than the purposely censored one in "Criminal" and the one he dropped in a freestyle before he was famous and was subsequently dug up by The Source years later. Not sure where you're hearing him drop the N-word now.

Back to Kamikaze, like most new Eminem albums, it has very little replay value. The initial shock of "oh the beats aren't completely terrible/he doesn't sound so awkward/damn he's dissing all these famous rappers" wears off very quickly and you're left with hardly any entertainment value. Eminem's albums date really badly too because of all the pop culture references. I mean, Em has always rapped about pop-culture, but back in the day those references were surrounded by thematically rich songs, great production, and incredible rapping. Now the pop-culture/name-dropping stuff stands out more than the song itself.