It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia Season 13

[Dannyhood91]

I'm gonna going to wank to the ending when I get in.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

The gang, including Frank, was comfortable with Country Mac being gay. The usual Mac creeps them out when he is closeted and deeply religious or when he comes out and is still obsessed with homemade bike saddles or Dennis real-life dolls.

[BeardFaceMan]

I always saw the whole thing of Frank being creeped out by Mac in Being Frank as Frank being homophobic, not the show. But there has been a creepiness about Mac anyway regardless of his sexuality.

I don't agree about these characters having no depth and being complete cartoons. Yeah they're so grotesque and morally broken but there's a very elaborate set of pathological quirks and complexes to every character, and they have a lot of depth for such a self-centred bunch of bastards. They're a lot more than just vehicles for offensive jokes. The show would be shite if that was the case. As long as it keeps undercutting the sentimentality, as it has done in the past, and doesn't develop a sort of Scrubs/Community we're all in this together navel-gazing vibe then I'm fine. It's not out of place in those shows but fuck me, imagine if Sunny started with that. I don't think they'd do that though.

I don tthink that the characters dont have any depth, at 13 seasons deep it would be a shitty show if they only had one or two traits. What I mean by grotesque is not that they should be aidsrapeoffensivethings every week but that they are not realistic people and youre not necessarily supposed to like them and root for them to enjoy them show. You can like them as in, theyre good characters and i like them in the show, but you would never have friends like that in real life because theyre  bunch of fuckers. And they couldnt exist in real life with the depth of cartoonish character traits they have, theyd be in prison or dead. Thats why this sort of character progression makes zero sense in a show like this and sticks out like Macs sore arse after a heavy exercise bike session.

[Ferris]

Just watched it again - my opinion the same. Excellent piece of work from a show that is confident enough in itself and the characters it has developed to take a break from being funny to be something completely unexpected. More please.

[Bhazor]

I can't imagine how angry and confused some of you guys must have been with the last episode of Black Adder Goes Forth.

[Clownbaby]

See I like the odd straight up emotional bit in comedies. Whether it's people running to battle or executing a coming-out dance of physical perfection

[up_the_hampipe]

See I like the odd straight up emotional bit in comedies. Whether it's people running to battle or executing a coming-out dance of physical perfection

"Please don't make me redundant"

[Clownbaby]

"Please don't make me redundant"

:, (

[Chollis]

"Please don't make me redundant"

Please.
Please, though.
Please! Please, though! Please.

[BeardFaceMan]

I can't imagine how angry and confused some of you guys must have been with the last episode of Black Adder Goes Forth.

Not even a little bit. Nothing wrong with emotion in comedy, and it fit BGF because it was about the First World War which is a serious subject so the ending fit the show. Sunny is not about a serious subject and theyve never got serious before so when they try and do something so tonally different to what theyve done for the past 13 years, it doesnt quite work, it doesn't fit. It just didnt feel like Sunny at all to me, it was like an ending from a totally different show was bolted onto the end of a below par Sunny episode.

[Chollis]

Watched this last night. The ending was uhh, interesting. Didn't work for me besides the surprise factor because I am a homophobic edgelord don't need brave interpretative dance spectacles from these characters. Having Frank hammering the "I don't get it" - "I get it!" in the episode felt contrived. It may have worked better with Dennis (as does everything on this show fuck you) who has always had more of a relationship with Mac and been aware of his self-delusion. I suppose going from the sex bike and Dennis fuck-doll to this without much development in between still would've felt jarring. Not really arsed, it was impressive to look at.

My bigger concern is that this season wasn't very funny, there's more duds than hits, but I've felt that way for the last few too. The melancholy tinge to that episode did feel a bit like a winding down. I wonder where they go from here, will they be taking Dee (next in line after Mac in the pathos stakes I reckon) on a journey of self discovery next? Whatever it is, I hope they can get Glenn back regularly because this show is always at its best with the whole ensemble.

[Clownbaby]

Having Frank hammering the "I don't get it" - "I get it!" in the episode felt contrived. It may have worked better with Dennis (as does everything on this show fuck you) who has always had more of a relationship with Mac and been aware of his self-delusion. I suppose going from the sex bike and Dennis fuck-doll to this without much development in between still would've felt jarring. Not really arsed, it was impressive to look at.

My thoughts on it pretty much. I don't think it was the right time to land us with a surprise Frank and Mac pairing for a moment that is obviously meant to be very poignant. It did strike me as odd that frank would be the one who would persuade Mac to embrace his sexuality properly when he's spent the whole series being pretty much disinterested by it. It was always Dennis who it seemed to bug more.

[New Jack]

I always saw the whole thing of Frank being creeped out by Mac in Being Frank as Frank being homophobic, not the show. But there has been a creepiness about Mac anyway regardless of his sexuality.

Thank you for also remembering this. Just because it didn't work for one determined to hate it poster doesn't mean it wasn't a callback, or wasn't with precedent. Frank's homophobia is not sudden, and his aversion to Mac was there before this episode!

I don't agree about these characters having no depth and being complete cartoons. Yeah they're so grotesque and morally broken but there's a very elaborate set of pathological quirks and complexes to every character, and they have a lot of depth for such a self-centred bunch of bastards. They're a lot more than just vehicles for offensive jokes. The show would be shite if that was the case. As long as it keeps undercutting the sentimentality, as it has done in the past, and doesn't develop a sort of Scrubs/Community we're all in this together navel-gazing vibe then I'm fine. It's not out of place in those shows but fuck me, imagine if Sunny started with that. I don't think they'd do that though.

Spot on. One six minute segment in a whole season is not undercutting the comedy. The characters DO have depth. All in all, the measly complaints just come down to Expected a Joke

The jumping the shark argument is way too soon. Wait another season!


Again, a salient point got made and ignored: Stewart Lee ended a show with an earnest musical number. Did y'all hate that too? Seems exactly the same juxtaposition. A simple question.

[Avril Lavigne]

Again, a salient point got made and ignored: Stewart Lee ended a show with an earnest musical number. Did y'all hate that too? Seems exactly the same juxtaposition. A simple question.

I much preferred Mac's dance to be honest.

[BeardFaceMan]

Thank you for also remembering this. Just because it didn't work for one determined to hate it poster doesn't mean it wasn't a callback, or wasn't with precedent. Frank's homophobia is not sudden, and his aversion to Mac was there before this episode!

Spot on. One six minute segment in a whole season is not undercutting the comedy. The characters DO have depth. All in all, the measly complaints just come down to Expected a Joke

The jumping the shark argument is way too soon. Wait another season!


Again, a salient point got made and ignored: Stewart Lee ended a show with an earnest musical number. Did y'all hate that too? Seems exactly the same juxtaposition. A simple question.

I'm not determined to hate it, please read my posts. I think it was an amazing sequence that felt out of place in the show and didnt work in the context of the show.

I would say that a 6 minute laugh free sequence in a 22 minute long comedy show is definitely undercutting the comedy. Expecting a joke from a comedy? Whatever next? Even people who think the sequence works tend to agree the rest of the episode was poor so I would say that the sequence did undercut the comedy. You may have enjoyed the episode because it was poignant or emotional or had depth, very few people are saying they loved the episode because it was funny. That's a bit of a failing for a comedy show isnt it? It's like they tried to write the episode around the dance sequence in a hurry, all the thought went into the dance, not the build up.

I do hate the term jumping the shark, mainly because its misused, as you say, theres no possible way to know if thats happened until you see where they go from here. Will be very interesting to see if it changes the style of the show at all and if we'll see more moments like this.

No idea about Stewart Lee, I'm not a fan and haven't seen that show. See my post above for my thoughts on Blackadder Goes Forth ending on a serious note. Made more sense for BGF too because it was the end of a series, The Sunny ending might have worked better if it was the last episode ever.

[up_the_hampipe]

Season 13 bloopers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmDOLUQ0qyY

[Konki]

Again, a salient point got made and ignored: Stewart Lee ended a show with an earnest musical number. Did y'all hate that too? Seems exactly the same juxtaposition. A simple question.

Yes :-)

I'm totally with BeardFaceMan on this, it was so jarring. On top of that the fact Mac wasn't in character for the entire episode which was really distracting. Frank tearing up at the end was really weird too. I didn't think the episode worked at all. There's been some great stuff in this season though, especially the new wheels episode. I'm just repeating what others have said now though.

[Vitalstatistix]

I don't understand why the dance keeps getting referred to as a 6 minute laugh free sequence in a 22 minute comedy show. I laughed a lot. I laughed at the absurdity of it at first, the idea of this, of all things, being Mac's way of coming out to his Dad. I mean come on, that's fucking hilarious. Then when I started realising how superb and moving it was... well I laughed more. I laughed at the balls and audacity of this show. Its willingness to take risks and potentially alienate its audience. I thought it was brilliant, in every way.

And to those worried that this may mark a turn towards sentimentality, or at least a smoothing down of the characters' rough edges, I have no doubt whatsoever that come the first episode of the next season (if indeed it happens) this incident won't be mentioned at all. And that'll make it even funnier. Bravo!

[Ferris]

^completely agree with this

[Clownbaby]

I don't understand why the dance keeps getting referred to as a 6 minute laugh free sequence in a 22 minute comedy show. I laughed a lot. I laughed at the absurdity of it at first, the idea of this, of all things, being Mac's way of coming out to his Dad. I mean come on, that's fucking hilarious. Then when I started realising how superb and moving it was... well I laughed more. I laughed at the balls and audacity of this show. Its willingness to take risks and potentially alienate its audience. I thought it was brilliant, in every way.

And to those worried that this may mark a turn towards sentimentality, or at least a smoothing down of the characters' rough edges, I have no doubt whatsoever that come the first episode of the next season (if indeed it happens) this incident won't be mentioned at all. And that'll make it even funnier. Bravo!

Yeah. That's how I'm thinking it'll go. Maybe Mac will bring it up and nobody will give a shit (including Frank) or Mac will start getting really into dance much to the ridicule of everyone else. I thought the whole dance thing was funny as well purely because of its earnestness. I thought it was very in character for Mac to be this earnest and flamboyant. He always had it in him.

[Mister Six]

Finally caught up and I think I would have liked that finale if it had come at the end of a more traditional season of Sunny, with each episode featuring the full cast and stuffed to the gills with chaos. Unfortunately, we'd already had a bunch of episodes focusing largely around a single character ("Boggs" 2, "Charlie's Home Alone", "Sooper Bole") so the novelty wasn't really there. Episodes like "To Be Frank" and "Charlie Work" stood out because they were such departures from what came before; this felt like more of the same.

Also, like "Charlie's Home Alone" and "The Gang Does a Clip Show", it felt to me as though writers had a great idea for the second half but didn't quite have enough gags or plot to fill an episode, leaving the show spinning its wheels for the first 10 minutes until things kick off properly. But actually worse than those episodes in terms of comedy because five of the final 10 minutes of "Mac Finds His Pride" didn't have jokes either.

I still admire them for the chance they took with "Mac Finds His Pride", and thought McElhenney was incredible throughout, but it could have been so much better.

I'm not quite sure what was going on behind the scenes this season other than Howerton being occupied with AP Bio (and Olsen with The Mick?) but it has seemed very uneven and frequently underwritten. Compare the largely flat and mirthless Cricket scenes in this season - especially in "Pride", where Cricket turning up in leather and being disgusting is both the most obvious joke that scene could have, and the only one - with last season's deranged "A Cricket's Tale", or how they brought back Uncle Jack, Ponderosa and other recurring cast members for "Sooper Bol" but then failed to find much for them to do than potter around in the background and deliver one or two lines to display their primary comedy trait. Mindy Kaling's guest appearance in "The Gang Makes Paddy's Great Again" also seemed like a total waste. All the bottle episodes ("Boggs" 2, "Time's Up", "Bathroom Problem", "Clip Show", "Home Alone") also seemed odd, but maybe that was the Super Bowl episode and all the dance rehearsals eating into the budget.

It's also suffered badly from having the cast divided up so frequently. Like Arrested Development, Sunny is a show that thrives on the interaction between one of the best comedy ensembles ever, er, assembled. I understand why Dennis had to be missing (or featured only briefly) in half of this season, but the rest of the regulars are only fully assembled in five episodes too, and it really takes its toll. "Time's Up For The Gang" and "The Gang Gets New Wheels" are, I think, the only real blinders this season - and mostly because they're the ones most like a normal Sunny episode. Had they been in last season, they would still have been overshadowed by "The Gang Turns Black", "Wolf Cola: A Public Relations Nightmare" and "Making Dennis Reynolds A Murderer".

As someone upthread said, this is the first time I've ever felt like Sunny is winding down. I wonder if it might be worth splitting filming the next season over two years, effectively creating a one-year gap (like the one in 2014), so they can get the whole cast together for every single episode.

[Bhazor]

I couldn't remember which of the 6 general Sunny threads is the current one so I'll post it here instead.

I skipped Season 1 the last two rewatches (before seasons 11 and 13). With nothing better to do I watched a couple episodes of season 1. It was so weird. It's like Sunny but everything is just slightly off somehow. The writing is similar and the humour is similar (especially Gang Finds a Dead Guy) but its just off. I think its a dozen things about how its shot. There's an audible echo in the bar like its taking place on a stage, no music bed, a really weird amount of camera shake, no reaction inserts.

It made me think of Old Lady House where they take away the soundtrack and go "See suddenly its just grim".

[Clownbaby]

I couldn't remember which of the 6 general Sunny threads is the current one so I'll post it here instead.

I skipped Season 1 the last two rewatches (before seasons 11 and 13). With nothing better to do I watched a couple episodes of season 1. It was so weird. It's like Sunny but everything is just slightly off somehow. The writing is similar and the humour is similar (especially Gang Finds a Dead Guy) but its just off. I think its a dozen things about how its shot. There's an audible echo in the bar like its taking place on a stage, no music bed, a really weird amount of camera shake, no reaction inserts.

It made me think of Old Lady House where they take away the soundtrack and go "See suddenly its just grim".

Yeah, and they're almost ordinary sometimes as well. I like to watch the first season from time to time to really appreciate their steep downhill trajectory into the abyss

[EOLAN]

Finally finished off the series.
As with most a mixed bag. Would echo sentiments that in Dennis's absence; Mac seemed to be taking on board a lot of the softer Dennis features such as worrying about the image of the group and how they are perceived.
Last episode; after all the build up I read; my main complaint (completely opposite to Larry David's Sour Grapes) is with the length. It just seemed a bit short. There could have been more humour derived from the Pride Parade Float and more overview of what was the motivation for the other three to come up with this concept.
The end piece was beautifully executed and I did find little spouts of humour as well as Vitalstatistix said. That this arty piece was being delivered to hardened criminals but also; able to get pleasure from the bodyforms of either Mac and his dance partner; and of course Dennis's face.

A bit patchy as a series; but my own viewing pattern was quite patchy too.

[Blinder Data]

Now on Netflix

The Time's Up episode is a good'un

[Cuellar]

Just rewatched this on Netflix as I'd only seen a shit rip. Mac's physique is even more distracting in HD, I mean it is ridiculous.

Regarding the dance, I also thought of the Stewart Lee line about the final taboo being someone earnestly trying to do something sincere (or words to that effect). Impressive set piece, I think I would have preferred it if it had ended simply when Frank says "I get it" and we did without the prisoners all applauding.

Anyway I thought it was a pretty strong series on the whole; enjoyed the clip show idea, and Charlie in the background poking his head round the door made me crack up for some reason.

[StewartLeehaslethimselfgo]

This scene was one of the funniest of the entire show, the heart warming build up followed by the venom in Mac's retort, even if theres one or two dud episodes now I'm glad it keeps going because they've still got it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrF3pvvAJlM

[Chollis]

I think this is my favourite Dee-snubbing scene, the end with Dennis's signature hand gesture and Frank's final "flush flush"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubo1g43vu-A

[TrenterPercenter]

Finished series 13 yesterday.

Definitely not the strongest season worth watching but had some good parts.  Not enough Frank in a lot of it for me, and the episode were not gelled together as usual.

[H-O-W-L]

Loath to revive this thread but I finally caught up on the series. Midseason was the weakest Sunny has ever been (the Home Alone episode was outright shit) but the final five minutes were very good. Not just for the subject matter but for the abject beauty of what was being presented. I didn't exactly watch it going "This Doth Redeem The Gaye" but I was just struck by the visual, artistic beauty of what they were portraying and that sheer beauty coming from Sunny was so unexpected it moved me into laugh-tears. I'm glad they didn't undermine it either, it would've been too easy and would have honestly undercut a sequence that clearly took shitloads of time and money to set up, and lessened it, at least IMO.