ContraPoints

[Cuellar]

I'm not really into Youtubers, but these are really great and interesting. Even the comments underneath are 'fair and balanced'. The incels one is great; severe but unusually empathetic. And yeah, she's cute AF, lads.

Yeah, just listened to the Incels one. I only had a very vague idea of incelism before hand and assumed they just hated women for not sleeping with them, but she really did a good job of highlighting how sad the whole scene is, and how it's a form of self-harm that none of us is really immune to. To believe that you'll never find love if your head is the wrong shape and that people believe this just makes me feel very sorry for them.

[Twed]

I think she does a really good job of selling anti-capitalism in a way that would appeal to my sample of the "average American".

I think her "everybody is wrong" approach is right, but makes any kind of movement (and therefore change) impossible. She calms us all down and speaks sense that appeals, but then what? Without being a little extreme the powerful people doing this to us will remain powerful.

Maybe I haven't seen enough though. I really like her.

[Twed]

Disappointingly misrepresentative of the left in part 2 of the "What's Wrong With Capitalism" video. The kitten-leftish character she created rushes in and suggests "no voting! Smashing!" ("smashing" meaning violence) as an alternative to the solution she produces which is "be nice on Twitter and vote well".

The left is responsible for anybody vaguely human being voted into a position in recent years. No left-wing figure wants to be violent instead of voting.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I don't think the 'kitten'-type character is supposed to be 'The Left' really, they're more a representation of the hardline antifa types who often slip into anarchistic positions

[Barry Admin]

Yeah, does have "lefist" caricatures, and in the video titled "The Left" it's clear from the off that Tabby is well-meaning, but expresses her views in a way that's alienating and odd to most, whereas the fascist communicates a very clear message - although at times giving a nod to dog whistles ("black boots"). The fascist speaks in a rousing, emotive tone, whereas Tabby starts whining about Hegel and talking like a sociology student with concepts not everyone will understand, before turning on the audience.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QuN6GfUix7c

[Twed]

I saw that. I understand and appreciate Tabby, but I thought it was a misstep to have her simply wanting violence and not voting for better candidates, because that doesn't ring true and takes away from the well-meaning aspect of her character.

[Barry Admin]

I flicked through that video again, and it's just a quick crowd-pleasing cameo, I don't think it should be taken that seriously. Tatiana Tankiekova popping in just before her is fucking hilarious!

[Blumf]

From the horses mouth:

ContraPoints Pinned by ContraPoints 11 months ago

Political videos tend not to be interpreted very charitably (I know this video is going to be upheld by centrists as evidence I've "gone full Antifa" and by leftists that I'm a closet centrist) so I'd better state unambiguously what I think.

The character Tabby represents a lot of what I think is wrong about leftist strategy: the indifference to optics, the undisguised hostility to the ideologically impure, the sectarian nitpicking, the alternation between extreme optimism ("a communist revolution can happen in the United States and it will go well if it does") and extreme pessimism ("neoliberal propaganda has so tight a grip on the general public that why should we even bother trying to appeal to them?"), the blurring of lines between recognizing the necessity of violence in certain situations and the aesthetic celebration of violence as an end in itself. Nevertheless I try to represent Tabby with some sympathy, and anticipate that my viewers will like her—my audience is at least 95% trans Antifa cat girls, but I hope that doesn't prevent them from thinking about the critique.

The character Justine is a mouthpiece for a lot of my complaints about the left, and the recipient of some leftist criticisms of me ("you go to brunch with these people?"), but I chose not to represent her as an attractive alternative. She's complacent, frivolous, and ineffective, full of derision for the way other leftists do things but not contributing much for her own part either. When a fascist comes knocking on the door it's better to have Tabby there than Justine. To see if Justine can put her money where her mouth is we'd have to see what speech she delivers following the fascist speech. This YouTube channel is effectively my attempt to make that speech, and I can't be the one who judges how successful it is.

[Schnapple]

New Contra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1afqR5QkDM

[græskar]

The new one about  Æ S T H E T I C S  is great too. I love this format of videos, where she imagines a deep discussion between two conflicting ideas in her head.

This new video also ties in with the Tabby character as a representation of a certain section of the left. It closes in on the "optics" problem - it is becoming clear that we leave in an age of aesthetics, not reason, and the left has to be smarter about presentation and appealing to the bloody centrists if we are hoping to win.

[bgmnts]

The new one about  Æ S T H E T I C S  is great too. I love this format of videos, where she imagines a deep discussion between two conflicting ideas in her head.

I had that idea years ago. The bitch.

[Mink]

Haven't seen this before and it's hypnotically good - cheers

[Twed]

From the horses mouth:

Reasonable.

I'm rolling back my point about the character being unrealistic. There's at least one person on my Twitter feed who is biting the heads off any progressive who isn't fully communist right now, and it's fucking ridiculous and tiring.

[Mister Six]

Reasonable.

I'm rolling back my point about the character being unrealistic. There's at least one person on my Twitter feed who is biting the heads off any progressive who isn't fully communist right now, and it's fucking ridiculous and tiring.

There's tons of those on Facebook, if you know where to look. Performative wokeness, wherein showing off your superior politics is more important than changing hearts and minds.

[Mister Six]

Contrapoints (is that her name, like Madonna ir Prince or Die Hard?) interviewed in The New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/the-stylish-socialist-who-is-trying-to-save-youtube-from-alt-right-domination

Still haven't watched any of her videos yet. I will, promise!

[Petey Pate]

She appeared on the most recent episode of Chapo Trap House too.

https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-264-the-golden-ones-feat-natalie-wynn-aka-contrapoints-111818

[bgmnts]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD-PbF3ywGo

Does she always do those little quick cuts like a proper youtube cunt?

Seriously though she's mega ace.

[Blumf]

Does she always do those little quick cuts like a proper youtube cunt?

Yeah, that was a great talk, but the editing was far too flashy (fiddly)

[Sin Agog]

Sounds like she's right about most everything, and I'm glad she's adding her strength and poise to the big ol' cultural tug of war, but this Jackanory stories except without the stories shit just ain't for me.

[Johnny Yesno]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD-PbF3ywGo

Does she always do those little quick cuts like a proper youtube cunt?

Seriously though she's mega ace.

That is absolutely top drawer. There is something about it of the Adam Curtis school of bringing disparate ideas together into one overarching theme, in this case Opulence. Also, it's really great to see Adam Neely on board doing a short voice acting cameo.

[Bizarro Mark Bosnich]

Looks like PhilosophyTube has had to write an apology for something or other, which hasn't been received all that well, and 'fans' are pressuring Shaun, Hbomb and Lindsay Ellis to write ones of their own. Is this all because Buck Angel featured on Natalie's last video?

[canadagoose]

Looks like PhilosophyTube has had to write an apology for something or other, which hasn't been received all that well, and 'fans' are pressuring Shaun, Hbomb and Lindsay Ellis to write ones of their own. Is this all because Buck Angel featured on Natalie's last video?

Mainly, yes. It's not been well-received among trans people in general, and to be honest I'm a bit sick of her making "mistakes" like this again and again. As someone who's loved her videos for years, it's disappointing. Why do people who make good art manage to disappoint so often?

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Mainly, yes. It's not been well-received among trans people in general, and to be honest I'm a bit sick of her making "mistakes" like this again and again. As someone who's loved her videos for years, it's disappointing. Why do people who make good art manage to disappoint so often?

What are the mistakes in question?

[canadagoose]

What are the mistakes in question?

1. This series of tweets, which were a bit controversial, mainly because they annoyed non-binary people who thought she was being selfish by not liking people asking for pronouns. I mean, I see where she's coming from and I know the feeling, but it's probably not the best way to put it (or the best conclusion to come to).


2. Having Buck Angel on her latest video as a voice-over person. He's a well-known "truscum" or "trans-medicalist", who basically denies the existence and validity of non-binary and various sorts of trans people who don't meet certain criteria (dysphoria is the main one, although I think they often misinterpret "dysphoria" on purpose in order to exclude people). People are pretty pissed-off about that, too. Hbomberguy has basically denounced him indirectly, and I don't think Shaun is too happy either.

3. This tweet wasn't particularly well-worded. On its own, it's fairly innocuous, but in context it sounds a bit truscum-ish

[idunnosomename]

As far as i can tell this Buck Angel person doesnt think you can identify as trans unless you have body dysphoria

Its exhausting to keep up with whos woke and whos cancelled!!!

[canadagoose]

Oh aye, I forgot about the controversy with her video "The Aesthetic" (I think?) where one of her characters, Justine, expresses views that could be construed as NB-phobic, although at the time I thought it was honestly just the character she was playing and not her own views. Now? I'm not so sure.

edit: In conclusion I still like her videos, and I'd still recommend them to non-trans people and people interested in a vaguely left-wing position, but in the same way I'd recommend Morrissey - you know, a great artist, but maybe with some dodgy opinions.

[chveik]

edit: In conclusion I still like her videos, and I'd still recommend them to non-trans people and people interested in a vaguely left-wing position, but in the same way I'd recommend Morrissey - you know, a great artist, but maybe with some dodgy opinions.

I don't think the analogy works, Morrissey is a well-known fascist scum, whereas I have no idea what nb-phobic means.

[canadagoose]

I don't think the analogy works, Morrissey is a well-known fascist scum, whereas I have no idea what nb-phobic means.

OK, she's not quite Morrissey, maybe more Paul Weller in his Conservative-voting days. NB-phobic - non-binary-phobic, i.e. hateful or discriminatory towards non-binary people.

[thugler]

OK, she's not quite Morrissey, maybe more Paul Weller in his Conservative-voting days. NB-phobic - non-binary-phobic, i.e. hateful or discriminatory towards non-binary people.

Is she fuck! She did a whole video defending nb people. She said something about her personal experience on twitter and people jumped all over it, there was little substance and she apologised anyway. Not akin to frequent racist morrissey at all.

[canadagoose]

Is she fuck! She did a whole video defending nb people. She said something about her personal experience on twitter and people jumped all over it, there was little substance and she apologised anyway. Not akin to frequent racist morrissey at all.

Yeah, she did, but people are wondering why she hangs about with truscum types if she's not one of them. I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with Helen Lewis, the journalist, but she's previously said "I think trans women are women" and yet has been quite active in transphobe circles, posting some questionable things and taking the piss out of Corbyn recently for giving his pronouns in a speech. It's a bit like saying one thing but being deliberately obtuse with your actions.

You know what, it's always interesting to bring an issue over here, because there's always a completely different response to what I get on Twitter. For instance, this is a very pro-Corbyn message board, whereas the people on Twitter that I follow... not so much, generally.