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GREAT BEFORE THEY MADE IT 'BIG' BIG

Started by lebowskibukowski, September 07, 2018, 08:52:10 AM

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Brundle-Fly

Quote from: RenegadeScrew on September 08, 2018, 07:45:23 PM
Yes.  Fleetwood Mac, The Pixies, Sigur Ros, Wu Tang, Dizzee Rascal, all the rappers really.

Although it is really almost everyone isn't it?  The vast majority of bands/artists only have a short creative boom period so it is really just a question of when they made it big.  Most are on a downward trajectory from a peak (usually in the first few albums) and very few ever really hit the peak again.  The exceptions are usually lauded for it (Miles Davis) and even they had peaks they never hit again.

The only people/bands I can think got big then better are The Stones, Beatles, Stevie Wonder, and Marvin Gaye.  Maybe I'm not thinking hard enough.

Bleedin' obvious observation alert.

There is the element of a certain type of music fan/ journo who will always get miffed when acts become very popular and heaven forbid, sound 'a bit poppier' thus why 'the early albums' are always superior because 'they were into them first'.

lazyhour

Flaming Lips, innit? All went wrong when the big powerful spotlight finally found them. Mercury Rev too.

RenegadeScrew

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on September 10, 2018, 10:23:44 AM
Bleedin' obvious observation alert.

There is the element of a certain type of music fan/ journo who will always get miffed when acts become very popular and heaven forbid, sound 'a bit poppier' thus why 'the early albums' are always superior because 'they were into them first'.

I thought your first sentence was a response to me but now I'm wondering whether you wrote the alert for your own subsequent comment! Not trying to be sarcy - I suppose it applies in both cases.

I know what you mean but I think that such a certain type of music fan/journo is probably right (imo), even if they are at times being hypercritical.  You see the same on here with comedy.  The average Peep Show viewer just enjoys it, and maybe says the first 4 seasons were brilliant.  The average Peep Show viewer on here makes a critique of the whole thing, rages about how rubbish the 'Jeremy eats the dead dog', says the very popular 4th season was the beginning of the end, etc. 

The way you've worded it makes it sound like that type of music fan/journo is cynically and deliberately liking/disliking certain stuff which I don't think is the case.  There also isn't much incentive to say that a bands early albums are the best when they realised all their albums prior to your birth.

Twed

Boards of Canada's best release is Twoism, IMO. It's a perfect little homemade EP.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: RenegadeScrew on September 10, 2018, 03:57:28 PM
I thought your first sentence was a response to me but now I'm wondering whether you wrote the alert for your own subsequent comment! Not trying to be sarcy - I suppose it applies in both cases.

I know what you mean but I think that such a certain type of music fan/journo is probably right (imo), even if they are at times being hypercritical.  You see the same on here with comedy.  The average Peep Show viewer just enjoys it, and maybe says the first 4 seasons were brilliant.  The average Peep Show viewer on here makes a critique of the whole thing, rages about how rubbish the 'Jeremy eats the dead dog', says the very popular 4th season was the beginning of the end, etc. 

The way you've worded it makes it sound like that type of music fan/journo is cynically and deliberately liking/disliking certain stuff which I don't think is the case.  There also isn't much incentive to say that a bands early albums are the best when they realised all their albums prior to your birth.

I was critiquing my own post as it wasn't partuiculary original in insight as we all know rock snobs exist. I wasn't accusing you of that, sorry if it came over this way.  Not that it's anything to be ashamed of. We're all a bit snobby on CaB. Discerning, is a kinder description.

It does irk me sometimes though when a band becomes (or was) more melodic and accessible then that output is often disregarded.


MiddleRabbit

Ludicrous as it sounds, second division (at best) scouse schleppers Cast were really good before they put any records out.  They played the Hull Adelphi every month in around 1994.  They had a great sound which instantly degenerated into an indie Simple Minds.  I suppose, with hindsight, that John Power decided he was going to play the game after doing the opposite with The La's, who were also brilliant in the early days and who similarly appeared to have some sort of residency at the Adelphi.

RenegadeScrew

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on September 10, 2018, 05:06:18 PM
I was critiquing my own post as it wasn't partuiculary original in insight as we all know rock snobs exist. I wasn't accusing you of that, sorry if it came over this way.  Not that it's anything to be ashamed of. We're all a bit snobby on CaB. Discerning, is a kinder description.

It does irk me sometimes though when a band becomes (or was) more melodic and accessible then that output is often disregarded.

No worries, I presumed you were talking about Steve Lamacq and I agree re the snobbery (in a good way).  Often inverse snobbery goes unnoticed whether class based ("who is that posh cunt?") or arts based ("opera fans are all pretending, they must be it's shite") and the latter niggles me a bit, whereas I take part in the former.

Tbh I am a bit of a music snob or eh... I am much more 'discerning' music listener which is why I brought up comedy (especially TV comedy).  My tastes are a lot more broad when it comes to that.  I don't get the hate for Nathan Barley at all.  I don't (or didn't 15 years ago) get Jam.  I'm intrigued by (and enjoy reading) people on here who seem to be incredibly discerning viewers and often have an opinion on how it was shot or written.

My tolerance for off-the-boil comedy is far lower too I suppose.  I'd be much more frustrated listening to a new Verve album than I would be watching another series of Peep Show.

It doesn't irk me but I'm similarly mystified by people not liking Four Lions basically.  Although I shouldn't really be talking about comedy so much in Oscillations!

Brundle-Fly

I think there is another thread in this. Owning our snobbery and hypocrisy with stuff.

Hundhoon

#38
R.E.M - I much prefer their 1980s material, they became one of biggest bands ever  after Out of Time and Automatic for the People came out
I think Murmur is one of best debut albums ever also love, Lifes Rich Pagent, Document and Green. Its weird its like the second they became big they became sort of dad rock lost of lot of their mystery.
they were like the American rural version of Smiths in the 1980s, replace Manchester with the deep south countryside. they turned from the Smiths into Coldplay once they became big.

kidsick5000

Quote from: lazyhour on September 10, 2018, 01:05:28 PM
Flaming Lips, innit? All went wrong when the big powerful spotlight finally found them. Mercury Rev too.

Isn't the issue with

Mercury Rev had become a different beast before they hit the big spotlight.
After See You On The Other Side, the experimentation - the CD single of Car Wash Hair had a 45-minute sound sculpture on it - stopped.

RenegadeScrew

Quote from: Hundhoon on September 11, 2018, 07:34:51 AM
R.E.M - I much prefer their 1980s material, they became one of biggest bands ever  after Out of Time and Automatic for the People came out
I think Murmur is one of best debut albums ever also love, Lifes Rich Pagent, Document and Green. Its weird its like the second they became big they became sort of dad rock lost of lot of their mystery.
they were like the American rural version of Smiths in the 1980s, replace Manchester with the deep south countryside. they turned from the Smiths into Coldplay once they became big.

I've never thought of that before but it seems a pretty perfect comparison.  I realise you were probably being flippant, but the Coldplay comparison is very harsh by eh...comparison!

wosl

Quote from: Nowhere Man on September 09, 2018, 02:30:52 AM
They might get overshadowed by the Buckingham/Nicks/McVie Fleetwood Mac, but the original blues based incarnation with Peter Green was pretty huge when they started. Albatross got to No. 1 on the singles charts, Man Of The World and Oh Well were also No. 2 hits. Even had a few million selling LP's in the late 60s. [...]

As you say, the Green band made FM big in good time, before they were big all over again.  It's the middle Mac(s) that could do with a bit of love (especially considering that Danny Kirwan, Bob Welch and Bob Weston have all popped their clogs); a version or versions that is/are always having to contend with being doubly overshadowed by both the Green and the Buckingham/Nicks incarnations of the band.  Future Games and Bare Trees are right up there with Then Play On, the 'White Album' and Tusk.

Admit it. You all thought Parachutes by Coldplay was OK at the time. Not sure about "GREAT" though...

RenegadeScrew

I did but I was only 16 when it came out.

In total fairness to coldplay that debut album is actually OK when you think about some of the stuff they've done since. 

Gamma Ray

Quote from: kidsick5000 on September 11, 2018, 06:02:47 PMIsn't the issue with

Mercury Rev had become a different beast before they hit the big spotlight.
After See You On The Other Side, the experimentation - the CD single of Car Wash Hair had a 45-minute sound sculpture on it - stopped.

David Baker left and Jonathan Donahue became the main man. The band became a lot less weird and a lot more popular.

Dr Syntax Head

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 08, 2018, 06:13:22 PM
The Verve

First 2 albums. Pure. Not letting Nick McCabe have so much of an influence=Verve went dad rock.

mojo filters

Quote from: Dr Syntax Head on September 13, 2018, 09:49:09 AM
First 2 albums. Pure. Not letting Nick McCabe have so much of an influence=Verve went dad rock.

Surely you mean Richard Ashcroft rather than Nick McCabe, in terms of the change in direction? Isn't the evidence on Ashcroft's lame Dad rock solo albums?

DukeDeMondo

Quote from: mojo filters on September 13, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
Surely you mean Richard Ashcroft rather than Nick McCabe, in terms of the change in direction? Isn't the evidence on Ashcroft's lame Dad rock solo albums?

I think that's what he's saying. After the first 2 albums Nick McCabe's influence begins to wane as Ashcroft's becomes more pronounced.