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IDLES and the generally sorry state of the British "punk" scene

Started by alan nagsworth, September 15, 2018, 12:29:19 PM

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Janie Jones

I don't mind them. Most of their fans are old people. Why is anyone talking about them? Who cares? Previous Idles thread from a couple of months ago:
https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,66572.msg3461662.html#msg3461662

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: alan nagsworth on September 16, 2018, 06:21:24 PM
I'm Scum

Never Fight A Man With A Perm

Thanks. Yeah, the first one is meh and the second one is better than meh.

Quote from: alan nagsworth on September 16, 2018, 11:24:45 AM
I'll take the last two mclusky albums over crap like "Drink Nike" any day.

I prefer FOTL to Mclusky and tend to (probably unfairly) compare bands like Idles to both of them. And they always seem to fall short.

Johnny Yesno


alan nagsworth


Johnny Yesno

Quote from: alan nagsworth on September 16, 2018, 10:34:43 PM
Sigh. We'll never see eye to eye, you and me, will we Johnny?

Well, at least it looks like we're agreed on Idles. So there's that.


sevendaughters

I did seem to fall away as a Falco fan after they went to smartarse twat rock label Xtra Mile. that said one of his Christian Fitness solo records passed my way last year and I thought it was pretty good. not really a 'lyrics guy' and sometimes prefer in this region of rock if the vocals are buried and oblique rather than shoved in my ear for consideration of their genius. i feel a bit of a heel because loud guitar stuff vaguely in left-field is desperately uncool right now and needs some people to bat for it. but Idles do fairly little for me and I'd go as far as to say nothing.

Norton Canes


iamcoop

Quote from: Norton Canes on September 17, 2018, 09:29:16 AM
IDLES are ace, you utter tits.

Yeah I agree. This second album is a bit lyrically cringey in places though, with the whole "love yourself" lyrical slant, but their debut Brutalism was one of the best records of last year in my opinion.

I'm not really sure what the backlash is about to be honest - they've certainly not positioned themselves as the saviours of British punk at all.

Someone mentioned the baby shoes lyric in a sneery way earlier in this thread, on paper it seems pretty laughable but if you actually listen to the song and take into account the fact that its about the death of his daughter it's actually a lot more powerful than it should be.

They're not reinventing the wheel in any way but I certainly don't think they're deserving of some of the more withering put downs in this thread. Slaves however....

Head Gardener


kngen

The true Kings of Punk were never really on the svelte side, to be fair.


gilbertharding

I read most of this thread under the misapprehension that IDLES were the punk band in that Legal and General advert... but that turns out to be The Phobics.

kngen

Quote from: alan nagsworth on September 15, 2018, 12:29:19 PM
[img]

In contrast, across the pond, what have we got? Pissed Jeans, roaring from strength to strength, hilariously lambasting macho ideals at every turn with music that is so grotesque and incandescent it makes me grin like a fucking maniac. Parquet Courts, sharpening their claws with every album, getting smarter and angrier, writing infectious, spiky post-punk hooks and wonderfully incisive social commentaries. Gloriously artistic and evolving organisms like Protomartyr and Iceage. It's a beautiful tapestry of fury out there, but back home we may as well still be listening to The Exploited. Like I said: embarrassing.

As a transplant from one scene to the other, people get very excited by The Flex, Sarcasm and The Lowest Form over here. (As they should with the latter - they're great, and as good as any contemporary US band I've seen live).

Maybe they're on to something with their film franchise bashing lyrics, the indie scene's been crying out for an ultraviolent Barry Norman figure for years.

sevendaughters

sneering I may be at Talbot's appropriation/usage of that piece of flash fiction but Idles are sneery enough to power a country and also I can already smell the obvious-style Frank Turner posi-folk turn coming a mile off.

manticore

There was an idea in punk in 1976/77 about destroying the music business. Since that didn't happen and obviously wasn't going to happen it can only survive as a niche product selling ritualised anger, whatever the good intentions of the participants.

kngen

Quote from: manticore on September 17, 2018, 04:39:07 PM
There was an idea in punk in 1976/77 about destroying the music business. Since that didn't happen and obviously wasn't going to happen it can only survive as a niche product selling ritualised anger, whatever the good intentions of the participants.

Apart from the vast DIY networks that exist the world over that operate far from any kind of music industry influence that connect people from Indiana to Indonesia, Scarborough to Sri Lanka etc etc where people actually BUY self-released music direct from bands who use that money to fund their tours. Yeah, what a pipe dream that was.

iamcoop

Quote from: sevendaughters on September 17, 2018, 02:36:18 PM
sneering I may be at Talbot's appropriation/usage of that piece of flash fiction but Idles are sneery enough to power a country and also I can already smell the obvious-style Frank Turner posi-folk turn coming a mile off.

They're certainly guilty, at times, of being a bit preachy. But I wouldn't say they were remotely sneery. I am obviously a fan but irrespective of that they strike me as an odd band to detest. Oh well. Different strokes and all that.

manticore

Quote from: kngen on September 17, 2018, 04:43:51 PM
Apart from the vast DIY networks that exist the world over that operate far from any kind of music industry influence that connect people from Indiana to Indonesia, Scarborough to Sri Lanka etc etc where people actually BUY self-released music direct from bands who use that money to fund their tours. Yeah, what a pipe dream that was.

Could you point me to any examples of this? Is any of the music any good in your opinion?

sevendaughters

Quote from: manticore on September 17, 2018, 11:43:23 PM
Could you point me to any examples of this? Is any of the music any good in your opinion?

it's hard to bcs trupunx are pretty much not about putting shit online, however if you cop an issue of Maximumrocknroll then you get a real insight into how punk is connected as an active global network and is arguably more potent outside of its original heartland - Asian punk groups like Scumraid (Korea) tour DIY venues across the US and get good houses despite never being in any mainstream or alt-presenting media.

this all said i stopped reading MXMRNR because a lot of the bands suck, say the same things in interviews, are too musically dogmatic, and are far far too earnest for me to enjoy. like there is very little radical about 2 & 3 chord guitar rock.

kngen

Quote from: manticore on September 17, 2018, 11:43:23 PM
Could you point me to any examples of this? Is any of the music any good in your opinion?

Some of it is the best I've ever heard/seen.

Iron Lung are an amazing band that run a pretty great record label too: https://lifeironlungdeath.blogspot.com/

Great UK label: http://staticshockrecords.blogspot.com/

As is La Vida Es Un Mus, but which has a distinctly more European/South American purview. https://lavidaesunmus.bandcamp.com/

And they're all mates, and all friends of mine, thanks to that international underground railroad I mentioned.

alan nagsworth

Nice one for the recommendations, kngen. If I ever find time in my stupid life which annoyingly seems to never stop for longer than ten minutes, I'm gonna plough right into those.

Quote from: sevendaughters on September 17, 2018, 02:36:18 PM
sneering I may be at Talbot's appropriation/usage of that piece of flash fiction but Idles are sneery enough to power a country and also I can already smell the obvious-style Frank Turner posi-folk turn coming a mile off.

I gotta say I find nowt wrong with sneering when there's enough bile behind it. Lord knows Jello Biafra has always been pretty good at that, especially in the first half of the DKs' recorded output. Ditto Pissed Jeans, whom I'm just in love with right now. Genuinely ferocious, frothing tenacity.

PJs lyrics aren't all that complex, either, but they're somehow so blunt and so razor sharp at the same time, embracing thick-headed punk ideals but also getting straight to the heart of it with alarming accuracy. Their song Vain in Costume is just rehashing what DKs already said on Halloween, but they do it so well! With IDLES, I just find their methods so much more transparent and boring. They really do nowt for me.

iamcoop

Quote from: alan nagsworth on September 18, 2018, 08:20:30 PM
Nice one for the recommendations, kngen. If I ever find time in my stupid life which annoyingly seems to never stop for longer than ten minutes, I'm gonna plough right into those.

I gotta say I find nowt wrong with sneering when there's enough bile behind it. Lord knows Jello Biafra has always been pretty good at that, especially in the first half of the DKs' recorded output. Ditto Pissed Jeans, whom I'm just in love with right now. Genuinely ferocious, frothing tenacity.

PJs lyrics aren't all that complex, either, but they're somehow so blunt and so razor sharp at the same time, embracing thick-headed punk ideals but also getting straight to the heart of it with alarming accuracy. Their song Vain in Costume is just rehashing what DKs already said on Halloween, but they do it so well! With IDLES, I just find their methods so much more transparent and boring. They really do nowt for me.

Where do I start with Pissed Jeans? Always hear good things about them.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: iamcoop on September 18, 2018, 09:36:24 PM
Where do I start with Pissed Jeans? Always hear good things about them.

Tough call, I really think each of their albums is excellent. "King of Jeans" seems to be their most popular (and well-produced) album, so maybe that one. "Honeys" is my current favourite for arse-ripping tunes like Romanticise Me and Bathroom Laughter. You also can't go wrong with Boring Girls, the best song with one single guitar chord I've ever heard, from their reissued first album "Shallow". All of these songs also have fantastic videos.

They seem to go from strength to strength, too. Their latest album Why Love Now is fantastic, and as a live act they're extremely raucous and the chat between songs is so fucking funny. The singer is an absolute nutter.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: alan nagsworth on September 18, 2018, 09:48:21 PM
"King of Jeans" seems to be their most popular (and well-produced) album, so maybe that one. "Honeys" is my current favourite for arse-ripping tunes like Romanticise Me and Bathroom Laughter. You also can't go wrong with Boring Girls, the best song with one single guitar chord I've ever heard, from their reissued first album "Shallow". All of these songs also have fantastic videos.

That's some good shit.

sardines

Ignoring that Idles are one of the best live bands around at the moment(which at least accounts for some of the'hype'). I think arguing that their anger is contrived is both misrepresentative and disingenuous.

For a start there is nothing in their background to suggest contrivance, quite the opposite in fact. It is also not a sound which screams 'secure career path' so what gain in formulating such a contrivance?

That said, I'd argue the reason they are connecting is mainly due to them offering a slightly soft Guardian-reader cardigan-wearing level of pathos wrapped up in a good old fashioned racket. Lyrically they are far from Sleaford Mods anger.
Simple example:
This snowflake's an avalanche
I'm an old cynical bastard but I can see how the above both fits and distorts punks history of sloganeering into something which feels quite(ugh) relevant to 'now' (I would note that quoting full lyrics would make a lot of punk look like drivel).

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: sardines on September 18, 2018, 10:43:52 PM
That said, I'd argue the reason they are connecting is mainly due to them offering a slightly soft Guardian-reader cardigan-wearing level of pathos wrapped up in a good old fashioned racket.

I think you may have nailed why I thought meh about the two songs nagsworth linked to. Are those a good representation of the band?

QuoteLyrically they are far from Sleaford Mods anger.

A lot is said about SM's anger but they are in large part funny and bleak too.

Quote(I would note that quoting full lyrics would make a lot of punk look like drivel)

Agreed. You can't take lyrics in isolation. A lot of New Order lyrics are atrocious but the music somehow makes you look past them.

iamcoop

Quote from: alan nagsworth on September 18, 2018, 09:48:21 PM
Tough call, I really think each of their albums is excellent. "King of Jeans" seems to be their most popular (and well-produced) album, so maybe that one. "Honeys" is my current favourite for arse-ripping tunes like Romanticise Me and Bathroom Laughter. You also can't go wrong with Boring Girls, the best song with one single guitar chord I've ever heard, from their reissued first album "Shallow". All of these songs also have fantastic videos.

They seem to go from strength to strength, too. Their latest album Why Love Now is fantastic, and as a live act they're extremely raucous and the chat between songs is so fucking funny. The singer is an absolute nutter.

Really enjoying Honeys. Thanks for the heads up.

Ferris


SteveDave

"Punk Rock" is music for the posh now. I will not be answering any questions about this statement.