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Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 and other stuff

Started by Alberon, September 21, 2018, 06:09:05 PM

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Alberon

I think Discovery's problem with continuity is more not knowing what is supposed to be secret in the 23rd Century. I can sort of buy the knowledge of the Mirror universe being suppressed, but everyone seems to be aware of Section 31 while they're not in the 24th Century. The space marked out as shown in the RT article being so clearly defined seems like a mistake as well as they are considered little more than legends by TNG times.

Godlike beings popping up in Trek is a bit of a cliche though. Forget Q, back in the Original Series you had Trelane for instance.

Discovery's greatest problem is that it has no space to carve out some continuity of its own. By plonking it just eight years, now, before TOS it has no room for anything of its own without fucking up TOS' continuity.

Malcy

Picard series to be a like a 10 hour movie according to Patrick Stewart. So probably 10 45 minute episodes.

PlanktonSideburns

What the fuck were the cameras doing in that lat episode? Like the director watched the revenant and then rubbed handfuls of coke into his eyeballs

Malcy

That was one of the worst pieces of utter fucking shite I have ever had the misfortune to watch. What the fuck was that? I need time to process that and figure out if I missed something. Wow.

Chairman Yang

It certainly was a load of old bollocks, lads. That'll teach me to offer Discovery the faintest praise.

surreal

Quote from: Malcy on February 02, 2019, 10:43:42 PM
That was one of the worst pieces of utter fucking shite I have ever had the misfortune to watch. What the fuck was that? I need time to process that and figure out if I missed something. Wow.

Yeah that was really all over the place, although the "beheaded Klingon infant" made me pay attention a bit more, that was well dark for a moment

olliebean

Still finding the Klingons dull as fuck, notwithstanding that they now have hair.

Alberon

Well, they're better. Clearly still need more hair, though. Nice to see a hologram of the D7, better than the cathedrals the Klingons were flying in the first season.

I think the director was just putting the camera through those spins simply to stay awake. The episode was just tedious as both stories staggered through to their conclusions.

Malcy

Reluctantly watched this week's because it can't have been as shite as last weeks. It was ok. The yank dialogue is still fucking atrocious with people talking like high school kids half of the time.

Linus the Saurian saying his cold 'sucked'. Fuck off.

Reno being knocked to the floor for a second and comes round claiming she was playing drums for Prince and there were doves. Fuck Off.

When did Burnham get the authority to override the Prime Directive and give Sarus people his personal logs? He would have known she couldn't do that and even says as much at the end. Captain Georgiou broke it taking him in the first place.

What's with the whisper talk when being emotional? And the voice going all squeaky? Fuck fucking off.

Spock a fugitive but Starfleet didn't think to track his shuttle? Fuck right off.

I really want to like this but it just has so many problems yet the producers in interviews just seem to be slapping themselves on the back like any old shite will do.

With every episode of this my hope for the Picard series being good diminishes. I'm really just hate watching now in the hope it will redeem itself. I still don't even know the names of most of the characters.

olliebean

The Picard series will just be 10 hours of Picard reading books, feeding his fish and practising tunes on his little brass flute.

Malcy

Quote from: olliebean on February 08, 2019, 09:10:01 PM
The Picard series will just be 10 hours of Picard reading books, feeding his fish and practising tunes on his little brass flute.

I'd prefer that to Discovery!

He's on Graham Norton tonight but doesn't seem to talk much about the new series.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4frJ_SiDLj8&t=0s

Alberon

I actually really liked this weeks episode. It was Star Trek, real Star Trek. They even had a meeting round a table!

As to Saru's journals, the plan was for them to be shared with his people only after the Prime Directive no longer applies. The 20th century cultural references and the Saurian felt a little too close to the Orville (which is the only original aspect of the Star Trek clone), but in general this was a proper Star Trek episode.

Still don't care for Burnham though. 

Chairman Yang

Well as we all know pop culture came to an end in 1990s with the conquest of Earth by genetic supermen, so I think it's fair enough to be obsessed with Take That or collecting Pogs.

I mean aye, you can complain about the plot like... people working on fucking spores without wearing respirators, but it's generally no more stupid than anything else in Star Trek. Getting the spirit right counts for a lot for me and this one was a solid OK.

So I'm looking forward to next week's being a total shitter.

mothman

I enjoyed it, it felt suitably Star Trek. The overwrought whispered dialogue got a bit much. And they laid on Saru dying so thickly, I actually thought they were going to kill off Doug Jones from the show... and then, what? His people don't actually die the way he thought they did? Is that because the floating thing on his planet vapourises (or does it??) them first? What's going on there? I've been wondering if those mysterious predators on his world are really the same species, but a subsequent stage of development (making the Kelpiens a larval stage)?

{for an analogous example of an apex predator preying on its (far more numerous) larval stage, see Niven & Pournelle's Legacy Of Heorot}

Also, what's going on with the Universal Translator? They've always handwaved away how it operates (except in ENT where they didn't have one yet), making this probably the first, most overt use of the UT as a significant plot point ever. I presume they all speak English normally but the UT through glitching was translating something any one person said into a language nobody else (in their immediate vicinity) on the ship spoke. If they hadn't all been shifting languages, I'd have been left wondering if those were all their default languages and thanks to the UT nobody even needs a common language anymore.

beanheadmcginty

Me and my mate Robbo have got this theory about the mushrooms and how Discovery fits in the timeline. What's going to happen is that the spores spread throughout the Federation and everyone gets absolutely battered. Totally tripping their nuts off. This then explains why TOS is so brightly coloured and simplistic/trippy looking. They're all shrooming. This also makes them forget a load of technological advancements. Then once TNG comes along, everyone is on a massive comedown and that is why they need a counsellor on the bridge and the Enterprise is all soft and padded with muted colours.

mothman

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on February 09, 2019, 12:06:09 PM
Me and my mate Robbo have got this theory about the mushrooms and how Discovery fits in the timeline. What's going to happen is that the spores spread throughout the Federation and everyone gets absolutely battered. Totally tripping their nuts off. This then explains why TOS is so brightly coloured and simplistic/trippy looking. They're all shrooming. This also makes them forget a load of technological advancements. Then once TNG comes along, everyone is on a massive comedown and that is why they need a counsellor on the bridge and the Enterprise is all soft and padded with muted colours.

Love it! But how do you explain the ST: TMP uniform (white and pastel pyjamas, mostly used through the 2270s) and the post-ST2: TWoK uniform (militaristic red uniforms with lots of detailing, used from late 2270s till early 2350s)?

beanheadmcginty

Not sure but maybe they switched to cocaine for a few years.

petril

Quote from: mothman on February 09, 2019, 06:38:55 PM
Love it! But how do you explain the ST: TMP uniform (white and pastel pyjamas, mostly used through the 2270s) and the post-ST2: TWoK uniform (militaristic red uniforms with lots of detailing, used from late 2270s till early 2350s)?

it was the seventies. d'yer etc Stew

mothman


Malcy

#139
Wonder when we will get a trip to modern day earth episode? Every other series had a least one. Apart from TAS maybe. While since I watched it.

olliebean

Quote from: Malcy on February 10, 2019, 09:29:04 PM
Wonder when we will get a trip to modern day earth episode? Every other series had a least one. Apart from RAS maybe. While since I watched it.

What's RAS?

Malcy

Quote from: olliebean on February 10, 2019, 10:06:23 PM
What's RAS?

I meant TAS The Animated Series but my phone is on an absolute campaign of autocorrect fuckery these days no matter how many times I correct an autocorrect!

Fixed it now. I'm on a TOS(fingers crossed) rewatch at the moment. Really hard to believe it's set a few years after Discovery. I don't even mean the look of it but just generally the whole feel of what's going on in the galaxy.

JamesTC

Quote from: Malcy on February 10, 2019, 09:29:04 PM
Wonder when we will get a trip to modern day earth episode? Every other series had a least one. Apart from TAS maybe. While since I watched it.

TNG and DS9 didn't travel to modern day, did they? Can't think of one off the top of my head. Closest is Past Tense which is still a few years from now.

Alberon


Phil_A

Quote from: Malcy on February 10, 2019, 10:14:08 PM
I meant TAS The Animated Series but my phone is on an absolute campaign of autocorrect fuckery these days no matter how many times I correct an autocorrect!

Fixed it now. I'm on a TOS(fingers crossed) rewatch at the moment. Really hard to believe it's set a few years after Discovery. I don't even mean the look of it but just generally the whole feel of what's going on in the galaxy.

Interestlngly, Midnight's Edge are claiming that legally Discovery isn't allowed be set in the same continuity as TOS due to all the shenanigans with Viacom and CBS, and if that is the case, any claim that this is a canon prequel to TOS is actually technically not true - contractually, any Star Trek made under the current agreement has to be a distinct entity from all previous Treks and that means it can't be part of the same "story" as any previous series or films prior to the JJ Abrams reboot. They couldn't use any of the classic ship designs or costumes for the same reason.

Malcy

Quote from: JamesTC on February 10, 2019, 10:19:45 PM
TNG and DS9 didn't travel to modern day, did they? Can't think of one off the top of my head. Closest is Past Tense which is still a few years from now.

That's a good point. I had it in my head that they both did at some point but couldn't think when. I suppose an episode set it in a familiar setting would have been a better way to put it.

Alberon

I'm not sure about that report about this being a third continuity. The destruction of Romulus, as seen in the first reboot film, is supposed to be a major plot point of the upcoming Picard series.

All I've ever heard before is that CBS only have rights to the original continuity and Paramount (I think) have the reboot one. There's some deal about a series and a film not clashing, which affected Discovery's launch but it is largely moot now the reboot film series is dead.

I think it's all down to having to reflect half a century of technological progress in a series set only a few years before the 1960s Trek. It leaves them no room to manoeuvre.

Malcy

Quote from: Phil_A on February 10, 2019, 10:53:45 PM
Interestlngly, Midnight's Edge are claiming that legally Discovery isn't allowed be set in the same continuity as TOS due to all the shenanigans with Viacom and CBS, and if that is the case, any claim that this is a canon prequel to TOS is actually technically not true - contractually, any Star Trek made under the current agreement has to be a distinct entity from all previous Treks and that means it can't be part of the same "story" as any previous series or films prior to the JJ Abrams reboot. They couldn't use any of the classic ship designs or costumes for the same reason.

What's the deal with Midnight's Edge? I've seen a few of their videos but it always seems like your usual YT posters who drone on with absolutely no proof.

The current show runners are constantly banging on about tying the canon together and how careful they are sticking to things etc which they wouldn't need to do if it was yet another alternate reality. If I thought it was a 100% alternate reality I probably wouldn't watch it.

Confuses me things with the Picard series if that's the way as well. Set after and dealing with the destruction of Romulus which is a Abrams concept which created the Kelvinverse. Which in itself means... Ah fuck it my brains too fried but it's all a bit complicated.

Edit - What Alberon said basically.

Alberon

In the latest episode, for instance, Number One handed Pike a data pad which looked almost identical to a prop used in TOS, except there it was just an etch a sketch style thing where as here it was a fully working display. And there's dialogue about Pike ordering the hologram communications pulled out of Enterprise as an explanation of why there isn't any in TOS. Throw in an oblique reference to Scotty and it seems to be making damn clear that this is the same Enterprise as in TOS.

Discovery the series was designed to mirror the aesthetic of the reboot films and there does seem to be a conscious effort to pull things back to TOS.

mothman

I don't think there's much legal prohibition between film and TV, really, the only thing I can recall (poorly) is around use of film elements (mainly plot ones I think) in TV shows.

It's just occurred to me that one thing they could have done to tie in canon would have been to have the two serious flashbacks we've seen (when Burnham first joined the Shenzhou, and the Saru short Trek) have the Starfleet uniforms seen in The Cage be worn. Doesn't solve their use in Where No Man Has Gone Before, but...