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Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 and other stuff

Started by Alberon, September 21, 2018, 06:09:05 PM

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Alberon

That was awful.

Monumentally dumb episode. As Chairman Yang said how could they not see the obvious flaw in trying to set a trap for one of their future selves and involving that person in all aspects of planning it?

And behind the scenes, did no one ask the same question?

Burnham is as annoying and unlikeable as ever but now they've fucked over Tilly as well. And just to complete the package the storyline of Stamets and his regenerated doctor is the most irritating thing since Neelix last graced the screen.

Worst Episode Ever!

Cloud

Yeah must admit I'm quite disappointed in how Tilly (who we might as well now just call Ensign Fluster) has been flanderised.  Her character was developing quite well, then S2 came along and turned her into a Star Trek classic "running joke that the producers love but all the viewers hate"  (see also Troi's mother, Ferengi comedy episodes etc)

Other thoughts:
* Ariam's funeral was rather lovely and all, complete with the kelpian song, and it should've given justice to someone dying who we care about.  But I found it hard to feel anything (and I'm a right soft bastard, I saw Wreck it Ralph the other week and cried like 3 times) simply  because we knew the square root of fuck all about her - only her name and that she was walking on a beach with some bloke (presumably her husband) once, and all that was just last week.

* It's powered by a fucking TIME CRYSTAL?  What is this, Final Fantasy?

* I do like the admiral being given a little more depth in her unexpected role as counsillor.

* Rather confused with Captain Phil Mitchell-cum-Garibaldi getting stabbed in the eyes, what was that all about?

* A massive what-the-fuck with the red angel turning out to be her mum, and good job she turned up as otherwise they'd have killed Burnham out of a ridiculous assumption that her bio signature thing wouldn't match her mum who you know, actually worked on the damn project

I think the takeaway is it's one of those frustrating episodes that creates more questions that it answers, and that got quite old during season 1.  I thought we'd got away from that.

Malcy

Yeah the time crystal was a shite name and lazy as fuck. Harry Mudd had one last series as well.

I can't be arsed with Admiral Cornwell. She's always got a right odd look on her face. She looked like she was stifling in a laugh at Ariams funeral and then looked constipated when on the bridge later on.

I know they said that all Section 31 ships had been acanned for any traces of the infected control and nothing was found but I reckon that's what caused the poke in the eye.

The whole Stamets/Georgiou scene was so unnecessary. 'You know he's gay don't you'. No he's never mentioned it. We get it. You have a gay couple in the show. Take your pat on the back producer's and move the fuck on and dedicate their screentime to something that drives the story forward.

To me it's a lot like Moffat's Who run. A decent scene or idea or two in each episode with piss poor execution. I'm glad it's nearly over. Can't be arsed anymore. The series has totally killed any enthusiasm I had for any future Trek. I'd rather they made nothing.

Really wish we could have got the proper Axanar film instead. Prelude To Axanar was really good, more interesting and Trek like than Discovery.

The characters are so shite. I think Saru is one of the great Trek creations and it's been nice to have more Pike but the rest are so boring. It's too American. So much high school yank speak.

I was so excited when this was announced. The day that picture of the Klingons leaked alarm bells rang.

Spoon of Ploff

I did a Netflix fast forward from the moment the roof opened (and everyone stood around watching Michael's agony gurns) to the moment the screen started showing a red glow signifying imminent red angel. The stooopid plot, and characterization of Michael left me with zero investment in that scene.

Still at least we haven't had to put up with an Ash Tyler Michael Burnham staring at each other with wet eyes scene this seas ahh fuck! There it is.

I'm very much in a 'skip to the end' mindset now.

phantom_power

I haven't seen the latest one yet but this show reminds me so much of The Walking Dead. Portentous, ponderous dialogue that no-one would ever say. Slow tracking shots with voice-over at the start and end of an episode to discuss the themes that have been badly portrayed within. Characters you don't give a shit about. Ruining the ones you do care about. Introducing some backstory to a character in the episode you kill them off in. A premise that should be fried gold but is pissed away by people who don't seem to understand the genre or how great an opportunity they have. And most importantly, that I will keep watching the fuckers to the bitter end in the vain hope it will fulfil even 50% of its potential

olliebean

Why would her biosignature match her mum's, though? I mean it seems like piss-poor biosignature technology that can't distinguish between a mother and her daughter.

Phil_A

Urgh. This was the first episode I've really felt like I couldn't make it through. Awful dialogue, shitloads of clunky exposition. That scene with Georgiou and Stamets was an utter cringefest.

The Red Angel plot was evidently something started with no clear idea how it would resolve(possibly under the showrunners who have now departed), so we've got this nonsensical explanation which has to tie directly back to Michael, because Michael is the most important person in the entire universe.

I have a horrible feeling this is what the tone of the show is going to be like from now on under Kurtzmann.

Alberon

The show did seem to start a nosedive from when he took over.

So the Red Angel is two people. It's still going to be Michael who visits baby Spock.

mothman

I've just figured out what's going on. Or have developed another of those incredibly convoluted fan theories we all know and love. However, if this one pans out, you're not gonna like it at all.

Now, at some point during either season 1 or after the announcement of the Picard show, I mentioned the Star Trek novel trilogy Destiny, and inadvertently spoiled Malky who was reading it at the time - I still feel quite guilty about that. So there'll be a fair amount of obfuscation in what follows.

OK, first a quick recap of Destiny. It's set in two time periods, one just post-TNG/DS9/Voy and one from the ENT - with a third time period appearing later. The main story concerns a massive Borg attack on the Federation, with whole planets destroyed. But at the same time the wreck of the long-lost NX-02 Columbia is found, far from the Federation, by Riker's USS Titan I think. The investigation and flashbacks reveal what happened to the Columbia. Under her captain, Erika Hernandez, the ship discovered a secret but powerful alien race who prefer to remain hidden, so capture the ship and crew and plan to hold them captive for the rest of their lives. Some of the crew, and the MACO contingent, plan to escape against the Captain's wishes. Their plan causes massive destruction to the eliens' world, and catapults the mutineers to the other end of the galaxy and - as it turns out - thousands of years in the past. There, faced with slow death on an icy world, one alien who had been thrown there with them decides to ensure his own survival at any cost. To this end, he enslaves the surviving humans using cybernetic implants to turn them into mindless drones... you see where I'm going with this. Yes, the Borg were created by, or using, human arseholes.

You with me so far? OK. So what does this have to do with Disco s2? Well, the big bad for this season is a itme-travelling AI called Control (sort of). My theory is, Burnham and co. will somehow banish this AI into the distant past and also cause it to prioritise, rather than the destruction of all sentient life, instead the sublimation of all sentient life into its control and the acquisition of all innovatove technology.

There's no getting around it: in the ultimate Mary Sueing, Michael Burnham creates the Borg.

Not convinced? Then how about this: in Destiny, one of the mutineers - possibly someone unwillingly coopted into the scheme - is a Scandinavian woman who, by description in the text, looks like Alice Krige. This person eventually becomes the Borg Queen. Now, let's talk Airiam. Nobody has ever said why Sara Mitich stopped playing her, and Hannah Cheeseman took over. Why recast if they were planning to kill off the character anyway? And could Mitich's being offered another role be, not a consolation prize for not hacking the makeup required, but something else? Why make such a big thing of her taking Airiam's role in the latest episode, especially after seeding her as a background character throughout the season? Well, how about this: her new character's name is NILSSON. Will she be asked, like Airiam before her to go on an away team with Burnham (to provide the same speciality Airiam did, since she;s doing her job now) and end up being coopted like Leland could well have been, and maybe transported back in time too? Is she the eventual Borg Queen?

PS I am not mad. Though I may have too much time on my hands.

Malcy

I never finished Destiny and don't remember you spoiling anything for me at the time so don't feel guilty Mothman!

There was a few comments made about what you mentioned before the start of series 2 I think by the design department. I can't do clear text on my phone or else I'd type it.

I really hope that isn't the case but can see the similarities. And re Ariam and the change(no not that kind) it does seem odd that it happened in the first place and wasn't explained.

I've wondered about some sort of reset for the series though. Producers said there would be a reason that Spock never mentioned Burnham before and that canon would resolve itself or something. Is it possible that she only signed on for 2 series not wanting to be tied down to another franchise again? Could she travel back and stop her parents dying and therefore prevent her ending up as a foster child for Sarek & Amanda?

Shame when the speculating about what could have been and what probably might bit be yields better results than seen on-screen!

Might read Destiny tomorrow. Although I have the first 2 issues of the new crossover comic downloaded so might do them instead.


mothman

Note: I may be misremembering much of what happens in Destiny, based on a quick scan through Memory Beta. So the "supporting evidence" in my final paragraph above might be irrelevant. So my fan theory is more of an "Oh God, surely they wouldn't do THAT, would they?"

I can't see how they could reset the timeline without massively alienating a lot of the newer fans. And it'd change Burnham's whole life to the point where she'd not be the person she is and be where she is now. And I doubt they'd get rid of SMG from the cast...

Old Nehamkin

Quote from: Cloud on March 23, 2019, 12:32:33 AM
* It's powered by a fucking TIME CRYSTAL?  What is this, Final Fantasy?

They're kind of a real thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_crystal

The rules of time travel in Star Trek have always been pretty flimsy and inconsistent, really. I'm not sure this particular conceit is any more daft than slingshotting around the sun or whatever.

Cloud

I remember there was also going to be an explanation for all the newer technology as well.  I could see the spore drive being a problem in that it clearly makes the ship burn up vast swathes of those intelligent mushroom people every path it takes and there's always "just one more emergency use of it" (bit of a recurring theme) so perhaps eventually someone grows a conscience and decides to destroy the tech and never speak of it again.  But everything else like the holographic communications?  Pike prefers traditional viewscreens but not everyone is going to be a luddite. 

Quote from: Old Nehamkin on March 25, 2019, 10:20:44 AM
They're kind of a real thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_crystal

The rules of time travel in Star Trek have always been pretty flimsy and inconsistent, really. I'm not sure this particular conceit is any more daft than slingshotting around the sun or whatever.

Huh, fair enough.  Another thing I always wrongly assumed was just an FF concept

olliebean

Quote from: Cloud on March 25, 2019, 10:23:16 PMBut everything else like the holographic communications?  Pike prefers traditional viewscreens but not everyone is going to be a luddite.

Maybe they just went out of fashion, like 3D movies. Come to that, the technology definitely existed in TNG so why wasn't there a mini-holodeck on the bridge instead of a viewscreen?

Chairman Yang

I'm totally on board for the explanations of 'these look just awful', 'oh these are really impractical' and 'seriously, fuck holograms like... for real. I'm not even going to close that quote mark.

Malcy

I always think a great way of getting past budget/technology limitations at the time certain Trek was made is practicality. I'd rather a screen or keyboard than swiping a 3d hologram about like a prize prick anyday. Theres lots of examples but too tired. Maybe tomorrow.

Malcy


Malcy

Cast and crew bigging up the finale and how everything will make sense. Can't say it's making me excited it anything.

http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/03/star-trek-discovery-cast-says-season-2-unexpected-ending-will-change-everything/

mothman

I'm thinking time jump. A big one. Well, if you consider, say, a USS Bozeman-like hundred-year leap big. It gets rid of the canon questions and why Spock never mentions Burnham (because he thinks she's dead or might as well be). However whatever causes the jump,  it'd have to be something that didn't take Pike or Spock, so, maybe not.

Malcy

They said all the Short Treks would be relevant to this series. Discovery was in the 31st century and abandoned or something I can't remember so maybe that.

Cloud

Quote from: Malcy on March 27, 2019, 12:02:21 AM
Cast and crew bigging up the finale and how everything will make sense. Can't say it's making me excited it anything.

http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/03/star-trek-discovery-cast-says-season-2-unexpected-ending-will-change-everything/

Sounds like good news!

Quotealong with noting that Hugh Culber's journey continues into Season 3

... mostly good news.

Malcy

Quote from: Cloud on March 27, 2019, 07:09:38 PM
Sounds like good news!

... mostly good news.

I tried to block the Culber news out. Is there reall anyone who gives a shit about his journey?

Malcy

This week's episode is online so must have been released early.

Alberon


Chairman Yang

Sour bastard alert.

This year really feels like it's going nowhere and taking ages to get there. It's like they've portioned out the standalone stories from a normal series of Star Trek (weird planet, time nonsense, bad robots) but forced the same theme of 'family issues' into every one. It's the same half dozen character beats playing out slightly differently again and again and again and again and again and again and again...

Take this week: someone we barely know is taken over by a machine and by the end of the story is dead*. Not only is that just badly paced, but it was also badly paced when they did it to two bloody weeks ago! It can't even be said that this episode was about a guy becoming a secret evil robot because it has no connection to Michael Burnham's family issues so no time is dedicated to the dramatic consequences. You could have replaced this week's threat with a large ditch and it would have been about as engaging.

So the same themes are stretched across a sparse story about characters reacting shortsightedly to a series of ill-defined threats. Last week had Discovery actually taking an active decision and they're punished with set-up exposition, melodrama and a 'new' obstacle to react to.

'Quest Completed: Head to next Quest Marker'.

* ...sure

Malcy

I really struggled to stay focused on it last night. Really is such a boring story.

Cloud

To me this was back on form, much better than last week.  It still suffers from "Doctor Who Syndrome" though (as in the current series) in that it's all super-fast babbling and I have to rewind over and over again to catch what's being said.

This is perhaps the first one (despite it being engineered to be last week's) that's brought out the onion cutting ninjas in me.  I guess I did give something of a shit about Burnham and her mother.

I'm a bit confused now as to who's alive and who's not, but it's Star Trek, so let's just say everyone.  I like how Georgiou has been given a new "dark but secretly soft in the middle" lease of life in the main universe.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the current Spock actor is by FAR the best successor to Nimoy.  Much better and more "Spock-like" than Quinto, no doubt because the actor has said he's studied Nimoy's performance carefully and cares enough to match the voice as best he can.  It's caring about a character and how they're acted that makes for a good replication IMO.

Is that it?  Not sure how many episodes left.

Malcy


olliebean

Quote from: Malcy on March 30, 2019, 01:22:28 AM
3 episodes left.

Are there? Well I guess that confirms that this Wired article in which they appear to have got confused about transmission dates and massively spoiled the finale is actually just an early April Fool, then: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/star-trek-discovery-season-two-final-episode-review

Malcy

Quote from: olliebean on March 30, 2019, 08:54:44 AM
Are there? Well I guess that confirms that this Wired article in which they appear to have got confused about transmission dates and massively spoiled the finale is actually just an early April Fool, then: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/star-trek-discovery-season-two-final-episode-review

I won't read it but I wouldn't have thought that anywhere would get an episode that much in advance!