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Oxbridge Prejudice

Started by The Boston Crab, September 23, 2018, 07:43:43 AM

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For years, I've seen people attempt to diminish the achievements and talents of people who went to Oxbridge and it's always tickled me. Are people who go to Oxford and Cambridge not simply - pound for pound - the most academically gifted people in the country?


I've seen quite a few comments on here recently, criticising various folks for the sin of attending Oxbridge, so I thought 'let's thrash it out!'

thenoise

Was tipped for Cambridge at school, passed the interviews but narrowly missed out on the grades required. Four of my friends who I used to study with went there, and have had successful academic careers, apart from one who works in america and earns a fortune. I went to a top London university, left with a good degree, had a series of low paid admin jobs where I was continually passed over for promotion (being overqualified can often be offputting in menial jobs), whilst failing interviews/graduate training days that I could scarce afford to attend.
I know, boo boo, it's hardly that tough a life, but I don't think an exam (or especially not an interview) being used as a cut off between social classes is any more moral at 18 than it was at 11 with the grammar schools.

bgmnts

I always assumed a lot of people Oxford and Cambridge come from a privileged background, hence the disdain.

Large Noise

#3
Quote from: The Boston Crab on September 23, 2018, 07:43:43 AM
Are people who go to Oxford and Cambridge not simply - pound for pound - the most academically gifted people in the country?

Not really. Pretty much anyone studying Medicine at one of the better unis would've been in with a shout of getting into Oxford or Cambridge. Ditto a lot of people doing Law, Dentistry, Veterinary Medicine etc. And that's if you accept the idea that getting straight-A's is synonymous with being academically gifted. I mean it's closely linked, but it's a slightly different thing; getting straight-A's means you're clever, consistent and driven, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're hugely gifted.

Edit: Of course olliebean's right that it's probably got more to do with how expensive your education was than it does how clever you are. My school would produce 1-2 straight-A students a year (an intake of about 150-200), whereas some private schools would have a ratio 50 times higher than that.

Then there's the fact that you're talking about 17/18 y/o applicants. You can look at lists of "The Top 100 youth footballers in the World" from the year 2000, some of them went on to become superstars and some became lower league journeymen. Your track record at that age is unreliable as an indicator of how you'll turn out a few years later.

thraxx


Not all, but most of the people I know who went to Oxbridge are to varying degrees up themselves snobs.

I'm only bitter because I got confused and studied at Uxbridge. There isn't even a university there.

olliebean

Quote from: The Boston Crab on September 23, 2018, 07:43:43 AMAre people who go to Oxford and Cambridge not simply - pound for pound - the most academically gifted people in the country?

I suppose that depends what you mean by "gifted." If "academically gifted" means "having been given a prestigious education by virtue of having rich parents," then you may be onto something. But if you mean "actually more talented and intelligent than other people," bear in mind that half the cabinet went to Oxbridge and have a think about how talented and intelligent they seem to be.

Large Noise

Then there's the fact that these Oxbridge cunts are all over the media and politics, in jobs that don't really require ultra-elite academic excellence. Fair enough if they're over-represented at NASA, but why are there so many Footlights people on the telly? What the fuck do Armstrong & Miller's careers have to do with academic excellence?

I had an interview at Oxford at 18, but fuck me I was a confused mess of a teenager, and I think I probably fucked it up. Didn't get in anyway. I may have a bit of a chip on my shoulder following this, who has their shit together enough at 18 to pass a series of interviews with academics? Suspicious. I then got offered a PhD there when I finished University but didn't make the cut for funding, and my life has turned out comfortably and happily anonymous.

greenman

Quote from: Large Noise on September 23, 2018, 09:17:45 AM
Then there's the fact that these Oxbridge cunts are all over the media and politics, in jobs that don't really require ultra-elite academic excellence. Fair enough if they're over-represented at NASA, but why are there so many Footlights people on the telly? What the fuck do Armstrong & Miller's careers have to do with academic excellence?

That's ultimately where the vast majority of the criticism as directed although Oxbridge specifically is probably rather too narrow and a few other uni's could probably be included as well as potential markers of a certain social class, obviously not for everyone to attends.

Cuellar

Quote from: The Boston Crab on September 23, 2018, 07:43:43 AM
Are people who go to Oxford and Cambridge not simply - pound for pound - the most academically gifted people in the country?

Don't think so. Everyone gets the top grades, don't they? So how do the colleges differentiate?

Not to mention the people that get in because their fathers make phone calls (Toby Young).

Well, the replies are pretty much as expected.

Regarding 'a lot of the top students elsewhere would be in with a shout', that's pretty much exactly the point. Very good, very intelligent, very academically talented, in with a shout but not 'Oxbridge talented', and therefore they go elsewhere. Straight A grades (or even A*) mean virtually nothing at that level. There are plenty of students with top grades and a polished personal statement, but it's the Oxbridge entrance assessments and the interview process which are there to identify the upper echelons of talent.

As for, 'it's just privileged cunts', well, why are Durham and Edinburgh and Exeter and Bristol crammed with Oxbridge reject Sloane cunts? Why didn't they get in?




Zetetic

Piece of piss to get into Oxford, and if you're telling anyone about doing so after around 25 then you should be ashamed.

Cuellar

I think the interview process being solely about academic ability is a bit naive. It's also about whether you'll fit in. Or whether the dons like you. I remember getting an email from the president of our SCR saying "can some new people apply for the high table ballot because the fellows are getting bored of seeing the same faces" - well fuck you, are we there to entertain the fellows?

I think the dons are looking for something different at interview, you're right. But that doesn't mean intelligence necessarily.

moondogs

I was at Cambridge. I wasn't particularly privileged at all, went to a pretty academically shit private school on a scholarship and lived in a dingy council flat at the time. The interviews were different and tough, and you needed to be able to express intelligence and understanding outside of the confines of book learning. 3 or 4 As are no guarantee of a place. The interviews sort you out.

I found there were a wide range of people there, with certain colleges seemingly going for certain types of people. Certainly not all people who wear tweed to breakfast. A few, admittedly. The vast majority of people there tended to work very hard indeed.

I loved parts of it but never really went to any lectures, as they were so very dull, and I got in a lot of trouble.

Many of my peers have gone on to do great things, and I've pretty much become a bum, admittedly working in a pretty fun field but certainly not something you'd associate with Cambridge.

Large Noise

Quote from: The Boston Crab on September 23, 2018, 09:46:46 AM
Regarding 'a lot of the top students elsewhere would be in with a shout', that's pretty much exactly the point. Very good, very intelligent, very academically talented, in with a shout but not 'Oxbridge talented', and therefore they go elsewhere.
It's wrong to say 'not Oxbridge talented' about people doing something like Medicine at another university.

How many people doing Medicine at another uni would trade places with someone doing, say, an Arts/Humanities course at Oxbridge? Very few.

I didn't say solely, Cuellar - did you actually go to Oxbridge or just work in the Buttery?

I went to visit one of my best mates from school who was doing the same course as me in Leeds and over a thirteen week term, they covered about twenty percent of the work I did in eight, and I was really lazy. That's not an exaggeration. And that's upper tier Russell Group.





Quote from: Large Noise on September 23, 2018, 10:11:39 AM
It's wrong to say 'not Oxbridge talented' about people doing something like Medicine at another university.

How many people doing Medicine at another uni would trade places with someone doing, say, an Arts/Humanities course at Oxbridge? Very few.

Probably because they're interested in medicine. Whether they'd swap it for a medical degree at Oxbridge and the assorted advantages that the tutorial & collegiate systems would bring, coo knows.

Cuellar

What even is this thread? Is this a lampoon? A parody of an Oxbridge twat?

doppelkorn

I studied languages (at Leeds), and on the year (and a bit) abroad, the Oxbridge students had much lower levels of spoken French/German/Spanish/whatever because they spent all their time studying mediaeval literature or semiotics and shit.

Cuellar

Quote from: doppelkorn on September 23, 2018, 10:22:09 AM
I studied languages (at Leeds), and on the year (and a bit) abroad, the Oxbridge students had much lower levels of spoken French/German/Spanish/whatever because they spent all their time studying mediaeval literature or semiotics and shit.

And burning 20 pound notes in front of tramps

As ever, some parody, some authenticity and some genuine curiosity.


Anyway, I finally understand why people are annoyed at Oxbridge types working in the media.

Cuellar

Quote from: The Boston Crab on September 23, 2018, 10:16:50 AM
I didn't say solely, Cuellar - did you actually go to Oxbridge or just work in the Buttery?

Well if you accept that it's not solely about academic ability then I don't know why you think that 'pound for pound' Oxbridge students are the best academically.

Not doing much to disabuse folks that 'Oxbridge' types aren't massive bellends either.

Shoulders?-Stomach!


Buelligan

I agree, I don't give two fucks.  It's how you live that counts.  Everyone, every single one of us, can never leave the body and mind we are born with in this life. 

If you're pretty or fast, good for you.  At the end of the day it's the living that means shit.  All these little human clubs are fine, if that's important for you.  Imagining that because you belonged once to one or other makes you special is your problem and it needs working on because these foolish vain ideas often stand between us and finding happiness.  And happiness being who you are is the goal, not being granted some idiot badge or medal for dancing to someone else's music.

Large Noise

Quote from: The Boston Crab on September 23, 2018, 10:19:40 AM
Probably because they're interested in medicine. Whether they'd swap it for a medical degree at Oxbridge and the assorted advantages that the tutorial & collegiate systems would bring, coo knows.
Absolutely, but there were 6,800 1st year medical students in the UK. Oxford takes in 3,200 1st years each year, let's say Cambridge is roughly the same. Someone can check if arsed mate.

So the number of non-Oxbridge 1st year medical students in the UK each year is roughly equivalent to the total number of Oxbridge 1st year students.

Which means that when you say "Oxbridge students are the most academically gifted people", straight away I can point to a population of equal size in the UK with a comparable level of academic excellence as most Oxbrdige students. And that's just medicine. You could do the same or similar with several other subjects. So, of the most academically successful students in the UK, Oxbridge only gets a fraction.


bgmnts


Twit 2

Quote from: Cuellar on September 23, 2018, 10:27:27 AM
Well if you accept that it's not solely about academic ability then I don't know why you think that 'pound for pound' Oxbridge students are the best academically.

Not doing much to disabuse folks that 'Oxbridge' types aren't massive bellends either.

TBC is just trolling and you're wasting your time taking it at face value.

doppelkorn

He's certainly clever! His posts on the internet show me this.

Quote from: The Boston Crab on September 23, 2018, 07:43:43 AM
Are people who go to Oxford and Cambridge not simply - pound for pound - the most academically gifted people in the country?

Quote from: The Boston Crab on June 30, 2015, 09:08:54 PM
I actually gave some kids a detention after school today and made them do a poem inspired by poo. Not even kidding, that was the detention. The first line had to be twinkle twinkle little egg. Not one reference to Belmert's smeg, though.

No.