Sargon of Lolcow

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Nah, not buying that. Half of them were fully on the New Atheist bandwagon a few years ago, making videos about Fundies and Scientologists. In fact a lot of that crop of Youtube people are, like Sargon, currently being ripped apart by the alt-right. It isn't SJWs or whatever that fuels these things, it's drama. And when the SJW wave ebbs away, they'll move on to something else. But there will always be drama.

Could be a bit that going on too, to be fair.

[Fry]

It's funny, because I'd actually been thinking of rejigging the forums to try and get more YouTube discussion - perhaps in Picture Box - but I'm not sure now that it would actually be worthwhile.

You know, I don't think that's a bad idea. Especially if it didn't  stop at YouTube, but encapsulated all the social media/internet drama stuff that happens online. I know for me this stuff takes up a lot more of my time than "traditional" media does, and it would be a good place to have threads about it without boring bastards popping in and saying "what's all this about, never heard of it, why bother talking about it" every other page. For better or worse its a subject that takes up a lot of our time, and does have an effect in the real world

[Paul Calf]

Of course the real reason we have these insufferable bellends are cluttering up our YouTubez is that we still have a legacy media that refuses to talk about diversity, gender issues, men's right, in any way which doesn't tell us the opposite of what we so often see.

Imagine being exposed to ideas from outside your own direct experience. It's political diversity gone mad.

[Lemming]

Jesus, I just watched his UKIP "speech". Some golden highlights, though the whole thing is a masterwork:

"British liberty is under threat - from many different sources. Whether it's communists on our university campuses, Islamists in our Northern towns, or censorious MPs in our own Parliament, there are people who want to CHANGE OUR WAY OF LIFE - FOREVER"

"I'd like to see UKIP expand it's remit from being the only party for Brexit, to being the party, broadly speaking, for British Values"

"This is where I'm planting my Union Jack. This is where I'm saying, "that's it, this is far enough and no further". So come the three corners of the world in arms, and we will SHOCK THEM"

What a fucking tosser.

[Barry Admin]

He makes over £9000 a month from Patreon alone, for making two shitty videos a week where he bellows about how people are "FUCKING IDIOTS". And because he got BTFO'd by those two newspaper articles, and was dumb enough to spend three hours on a looming BBC R4 interview which will also likely be a hit piece, he's now announced that he's 'taking a break from being a culture warrior.' He really is a wammer.

[bgmnts]

He makes over £9000 a month from Patreon alone, for making two shitty videos a week where he bellows about how people are "FUCKING IDIOTS". And because he got BTFO'd by those two newspaper articles, and was dumb enough to spend three hours on a looming BBC R4 interview which will also likely be a hit piece, he's now announced that he's 'taking a break from being a culture warrior.' He really is a wammer.

He definitely has a point there.

[Cloud]

Does anyone else find themselves wondering if they're in a coma or something?  Starting around 2014.
All these people I used to think of as timid and harmless (video game nerds) turning into proto fascists because something about ethics in game journalism then suddenly Donald Trump, Sargon of Akkad, guy with the scowling deer avatar, all the people using cute Japanese anime girls to avatar for hate and white supremacy, and it all seems world affecting and important.  It's fucking weird and nonsensical, and the sort of shit only my weird imagination could think up.

Heck, maybe the coma started in 2011.  Ponies?  The heck did that come from?

"I'd like to see UKIP expand it's remit from being the only party for Brexit, to being the party, broadly speaking, for British Values"

Starting on Wednesday...  *taps nose*

[Bhazor]

"This is where I'm planting my Union Jack. This is where I'm saying, "that's it, this is far enough and no further". So come the three corners of the world in arms, and we will SHOCK THEM"

I don't know, the thought of him going into battle gave me the biggest laugh of the day. Just picture it.

[sevendaughters]

that's because they never go anywhere other than places that can insulate their inability to face reality, such as the internet, panels of other famous alt-righters, and UKIP. could you imagine Sargon up against Jean-Luc Melenchon or David Harvey? Or even a reasonably brusque pub discussion in a city centre left-leaning pub?

[bgmnts]

that's because they never go anywhere other than places that can insulate their inability to face reality, such as the internet, panels of other famous alt-righters, and UKIP. could you imagine Sargon up against Jean-Luc Melenchon or David Harvey? Or even a reasonably brusque pub discussion in a city centre left-leaning pub?

I can sorta kinda imagine it.

[sevendaughters]

I can sorta kinda imagine it.

yeah all butting in going 'actually' and 'ad hominem' in that voice.

[Lemming]

Does anyone else find themselves wondering if they're in a coma or something?  Starting around 2014.
All these people I used to think of as timid and harmless (video game nerds) turning into proto fascists because something about ethics in game journalism then suddenly Donald Trump, Sargon of Akkad, guy with the scowling deer avatar, all the people using cute Japanese anime girls to avatar for hate and white supremacy, and it all seems world affecting and important.  It's fucking weird and nonsensical, and the sort of shit only my weird imagination could think up.

Heck, maybe the coma started in 2011.  Ponies?  The heck did that come from?

Yeah, it's a head-trip. I've seen lots of people, independently of each other, eerily describe 2011/2012 as the cutoff point where everything plunged into a postmodern collective nightmare vortex of stress and confusion. I think a lot of it has to do with the sudden popularity of online political commentary and social justice - it's bizarre to think that it was possible to be basically apolitical and apathetic towards social justice just 8 or so years ago (not that being apolitical is a remotely good thing). It'd be downright impossible now with the sheer quantity of political news and commentary that gets pumped straight into your veins online, whether you want it to or not. I guess certain online communities that were previously focused entirely on videogames and anime and stuff like that didn't adapt too well to the sudden cultural shift.

[sevendaughters]

i basically see it as the internet going through a a difficult teenhood. 95-10 was furtive exploration, fun, experiences we couldn't quite understand in the moment, the beginnings of new communication and increasing understanding of rules. 11-present is acne, wobblers, provocation, absolutism, hardening, and trying way too hard. i'm hoping by 2020 it has a stable job and likes to have fun at the weekend.

[Cloud]

Yeah, it's a head-trip. I've seen lots of people, independently of each other, eerily describe 2011/2012 as the cutoff point where everything plunged into a postmodern collective nightmare vortex of stress and confusion. I think a lot of it has to do with the sudden popularity of online political commentary and social justice - it's bizarre to think that it was possible to be basically apolitical and apathetic towards social justice just 8 or so years ago (not that being apolitical is a remotely good thing). It'd be downright impossible now with the sheer quantity of political news and commentary that gets pumped straight into your veins online, whether you want it to or not. I guess certain online communities that were previously focused entirely on videogames and anime and stuff like that didn't adapt too well to the sudden cultural shift.

I just don't understand what caused it to suddenly get popular and for everyone to become really bad armchair politicians.  The internet has been popular in homes since the late 90s and early 00s, Facebook since 2004, Youtube since 2005, Twitter since 2006, there's always been plenty of politics discussed.  Including when only nerds used it and netiquette rules suggested never talking about politics or religion.  Then suddenly terms like "SJW" are coined and it all goes completely batshit

These things just happen I suppose, it's like a fad, but more dangerous.  It's just how surreal it all is... as you say, things like videogames and anime are popular online so they're like frames of reference I guess, it just ends up being really weird.  It's easy to dismiss as a load of daft kids on the internet, as many do, but then they get into real places like UKIP and remind us why we have to (reluctantly) take them seriously...

[Benevolent Despot]

I've never listened much to Sargon. The stupid name and his tone of voice puts me off. From light experience I've never heard him say anything disagreeable or that could invoke the hate on display here. Have the haters ever considered that perhaps the unfathomable reason that someone is popular is that people agree with them - and that the best way to counter views and promote their own is to argue for them, rather than doing speculative creative writing to wring out the possible pathologies of people unlike themselves. That shit just stinks of narrow-mindedness and the absolute inability to consider other points of view.

[Cuellar]

It's easy to dismiss as a load of daft kids on the internet, as many do, but then they get into real places like UKIP and remind us why we have to (reluctantly) take them seriously...

I don't think we really have to take UKIP seriously.

[Cloud]

I've never listened much to Sargon.

You don't say.

I don't think we really have to take UKIP seriously.

Um, okay.

*quietly awaits Brexit*

[Cuellar]

Well yes, but beyond that. If these people were really on the ascendant would they have to tie themselves to a dead duck like UKIP?

[Cloud]

Hopefully you're right.  "Ignore problem, say it's nothing and hope it goes away" is one of my strategies too

[sevendaughters]

the hate on display here. Have the haters ever considered that perhaps the unfathomable reason that someone is popular is that people agree with them - and that the best way to counter views and promote their own is to argue for them, rather than doing speculative creative writing to wring out the possible pathologies of people unlike themselves. That shit just stinks of narrow-mindedness and the absolute inability to consider other points of view.

the thread started off with someone laughing at him, then a bunch saying he was a no mark, and then a couple of others (inc. me) saying actually no his viewpoints have been accepted somewhat. if you're going to play your one note could you begin at the start of the bar. of course he's popular because people agree with him. you'd have to be a fool to reject that out of hand. fortunately no one did. and seeing as no one is promoting his views here, there's little point having an argument.

[Benevolent Despot]

I'm aware there are a variety of views on him and other Youtube commentators. I'm addressing a common one. I'm not sure what your issue is.

[sevendaughters]

I'm aware there are a variety of views on him and other Youtube commentators. I'm addressing a common one. I'm not sure what your issue is.

There's no issue. I was pointing out that you seemed to think there was loads of hate in this hate-filled thread and actually there was just a barely-there conversation about who he is and yes he is indeed a little influential and has done some amusingly sad things but no actual hate, and now I'm pointing out that you're hauling the goalposts out and dragging them along the byline to a more convenient spot as is your wont and trademark.

[Bhazor]

I've not read all of David Duke's stuff, but y'know is what he's saying so mad? Like maybe we should just accept it, y'know? I mean he wouldn't have supporters if he wasn't right about it, y'know?

[marquis_de_sad]

I've never listened much to Sargon. The stupid name and his tone of voice puts me off. From light experience I've never heard him say anything disagreeable or that could invoke the hate on display here. Have the haters ever considered that perhaps the unfathomable reason that someone is popular is that people agree with them - and that the best way to counter views and promote their own is to argue for them, rather than doing speculative creative writing to wring out the possible pathologies of people unlike themselves. That shit just stinks of narrow-mindedness and the absolute inability to consider other points of view.

There's something admirable in how you never let your ignorance of something stop you from giving us your take on it.

edit: Wait a minute... Proud of his own ignorance; smug, superior tone... S-sargon?!

[Fry]

I just don't understand what caused it to suddenly get popular and for everyone to become really bad armchair politicians.  The internet has been popular in homes since the late 90s and early 00s, Facebook since 2004, Youtube since 2005, Twitter since 2006, there's always been plenty of politics discussed.  Including when only nerds used it and netiquette rules suggested never talking about politics or religion.  Then suddenly terms like "SJW" are coined and it all goes completely batshit

It's gotta be smartphones, innit? Before 2010, when smartphones weren't really a thing, your average person would surf the internet for a few hours a day, an extra activity between playing games, reading and watching TV (also maybe something to do when skiving at work). It was just another distraction. But all of a sudden we got these little gadgets that keep all of us connected to it 24/7, and it became difficult to navigate life and stay relevant without being constantly connected at all times, and with that we all got way too invested in what was happening online and it became another actual facet of our social existence, no longer just a little thingy to distract us in our spare time. Stuff that happened on the internet never used to be actually important, and it certainly didn't have any effect on most people's "real" life. It does now though.

[Benevolent Despot]

I've not read all of David Duke's stuff, but y'know is what he's saying so mad? Like maybe we should just accept it, y'know? I mean he wouldn't have supporters if he wasn't right about it, y'know?

And they call me one-note... I yawn at this boring temper-tantrum child^^

I also make no apologies for being one-note. I can hone my note. It is a note in response to the various tactics posters on here regularly use to avoid confronting an issue head-on (pathologising and so on). My note hopefully cancels out their one note and creates harmonic neutrality where new discussion can grow.

There's something admirable in how you never let your ignorance of something stop you from giving us your take on it.

edit: Wait a minute... Proud of his own ignorance; smug, superior tone... S-sargon?!

I'm not giving my take on Sargon, I'm giving my take on the discussion of him and others. I think the real superiority is questioning whether anyone else can have different views for any honest reason. See this thread and plenty others.

[sevendaughters]

so lucky to have the internet's John Coltrane sitting in with us peons despite his obvious disdain.

[Funcrusher]

Neil Young might be a more apt choice.

[Fry]

And they call me one-note... I yawn at this boring temper-tantrum child^^

I also make no apologies for being one-note. I can hone my note. It is a note in response to the various tactics posters on here regularly use to avoid confronting an issue head-on (pathologising and so on). My note hopefully cancels out their one note and creates harmonic neutrality where new discussion can grow.

I'm not giving my take on Sargon, I'm giving my take on the discussion of him and others. I think the real superiority is questioning whether anyone else can have different views for any honest reason. See this thread and plenty others.

Why not actually talk about him, that's what we're doing. Why start talking about the discussion of the subject rather than the subject? It's a pointless tangent and strikes of you wanting to defend someone you generally agree with, without wanting to be on the hook for openly admitting that you support the shitty things he actually says.

[drummersaredeaf]

I try to avoid these threads for obvious reasons, but this marketplace of ideas thing that Ben Des has been pushing recently seems to be driving this reasoning and is also clearly bollocks.

Of course things like the way messages are delivered deserves discussion. The alt-right are not exactly peddling anything new, but are rather using new means to push it into the public consciousness. Part of this is the way that the youtube algorithm proliferates this content, and this absolutely justifies discussion.

Likewise, as someone that works on a university campus, it's clear that the internet discourse puts ideas into people's heads that don't remotely resemble physical reality (ironic really). I work in a university that has historically been incredibly left wing, and the management are doing as much as they can to remove anything that resembles the promotion of alternatives to the vaguely neoliberal values of creating good, productive, unquestioning workers. Not that this is a right wing conspiracy (at ground level at least), but rather an attempt to respond to the market conditions in HE.

One thing I can be sure of is that there is no cabal of cultural Marxists and post-modernists having shady little meetings in corners designed to bring about the end of western civilisation, because if there was, I would be one of the people these mad cunts assume would be invited to them. The 'culture wars' only exist because a small group of people are telling thousands of people that they are happening. And this absolutely warrants discussion because their tactics revolve around taking small occurrences and rattling on about them as though it is representative of the entire world at large, and it simply isn't, or by outright misrepresenting how things are. Take a look how often the usual faces start statements with 'Leftists/liberals/feminists...' as though someone tweeting something they don't like is representative of a huge group and how this presents a challenge to decency/society etc. It warrants discussion, because it's an incredibly disingenuous approach, and it's clearly done for a reason, and that is to incite anger and outrage.

And more to the point as to why this 'democracy/market place of ideas' thing is ridiculous, things like the bell curve were torn to bits by people that were equipped to do it years ago. Instead now, the medium on which they are presented as rational, scientific ideas doesn't allow for the idea to be refuted effectively. It comes down to who is most able to draw attention to themselves, and this is why Milo and that gimp with the map are able to propagate nonsense. People watch them and repeat what they say regardless of their own ability to question the validity of the points they are making. And those that are able to push back don't get the same views.

To further illustrate the point, I think it's useful to ask people when they last met a transperson/feminist/communist/whatever whenever they are moaning to help point out that a lot of this catastrophising is all of their own imagining.

On that note, I'm bored with myself and am going to get my Marx and Foucault action figures and put them in lewd positions then draw a knob on the front cover of The Road To Serfdom. That'll help shut down free speech somewhere.