Stress... and You

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

(...and me as well, but when I've shut up about me you can have a go too)

I am someone who doesn't have a particularly high tolerance for stressful situations. Lots of the mistakes I've made earlier in life have been as a result of not responding well to difficult situations. I tend to procrastinate, become diffident and try and will the whole issue away instead of pro-actively confronting it. Situations then snowball until they reach breaking point.

My strategy since realising this recurring pattern has been to yes, guardedly live a more prepared life, but also reduce stress by not taking on aspects of life most consider natural.

No kids, no car (and so no drive to and from work - I can walk there), a low-stress job (mostly) but not necessarily a career, no mortgage (so no exhausting house issues) and so on.

However, I'm coming up to over two years with my partner and things are getting more commitmenty. I'm terrified that I'm not capable of dealing with the above sort of stuff without becoming a bad person and ruining the whole thing. Things are great right now, we have time together, we can go out if we choose, we can take holidays and 99% of the time the relationship thus far has been conducted in a safe footloose and fancy-free vacuum. It doesn't strike me that this needs to change. Being happy is the best ambition I have ever fulfilled. If it were only my choice then continuing as we are - including moving in together would be just fine.

My partner has perhaps more specific ambitions than that for their fulfilment. I have essentially been put on notice (which I appreciate rather than resent, as it's good to know clearly what each other wants) that she desires those regular features of life. However, I can't tell her clearly as I do have more bleary and not quite formed desires for those things and so I don't know in 5/6 years whether that will change.

The whole idea of being a father is alone terrifying but feeling that while being with a partner with severe anxiety and depression who had her father walk out on her family due to mental health issues makes that feeling worse. Then, I sincerely doubt I will be able to be part of a family functioning anywhere much above the breadline for quite some time, which means a reduction in living standards (and possibly sacrificing any thoughts of a pension worth anything). On top of all that, days will lengthen, problems requiring my solving will multiply and I will also be required - quite rightly - to deal with the emotional needs of others. Now, it starts being difficult to see the positives.

***

Thanks for sticking with that diary entry. Now on to you. How do you manage dealing with the amount of shit in your life? Do you have a distended tether? Is it really as hard as I'm making out, or do I need to person the fuck up?

[gib]

Am i reading this right Shoulders - your partner has severe anxiety and depression and wants to start a family?

[shiftwork2]

Are you sure you find those situations you describe (which are all about responsibility, really) stressful?  I ask because I find the process of taking on new stuff quite stressful but once it's reasonably familiar the stress fades away.  It's more to do with lack of familiarity which leads me to question my own confidence, hence the stress.  Realising this has led me to just do things now and wait it out until I'm on top of it.

There's a lot of other stuff in your post about family finances and suchlike that should give the average person misgivings and that's not unusual, or irrational.

[bgmnts]

Are you sure you find those situations you describe (which are all about responsibility, really) stressful?  I ask because I find the process of taking on new stuff quite stressful but once it's reasonably familiar the stress fades away.  It's more to do with lack of familiarity which leads me to question my own confidence, hence the stress.  Realising this has led me to just do things now and wait it out until I'm on top of it.

There's a lot of other stuff in your post about family finances and suchlike that should give the average person misgivings and that's not unusual, or irrational.

This ^

I personally can't handle stress at all. I am one of those who goes on a two hour internal walk through hell's highway if I can't do a simple task. But I still have a luxurious, thick head of hair so its all gravy.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Am i reading this right Shoulders - your partner has severe anxiety and depression and wants to start a family?

Yes, though at the minute they are being medicated effectively. I do worry if the extra stress of children will be too much.

But uh...I guess those with largely endogenous issues deserve kids if they want them (which she does)

[The Culture Bunker]

I've had often crippling anxiety/panic attacks since I was a kid (which often manifests itself in a phobia of eating in restaurants, for some reason) and I've had to manage my life accordingly. Mainly in avoiding stress. Relating to this, I've probably allowed myself to get in a rut career wise in a nothing  admin job that pays well enough but has zero progression prospects - I stay because I can fuck off at 3.30pm every day and it doesn't stress me out most of the time. And I've always known having children would be a bad, bad idea and thankfully I've never had the urge to act against this.

However, it has cost me a couple of pretty serious relationships as the "no children" policy is absolutely non-negotiable. They felt I would feel different in time. I did not. Thankfully I'm with someone now who finds kids "a bit trying" and also understands my anxiety issues. Fuck knows what I did to deserve such luck.

[Cuellar]

I hate stress and deal with it by just going along with whatever other people want me to do. Path of least resistance, then go to grave full of regret.

Job done.

[mothman]

It's OK to "fear" change. But you have to keep moving forward eventually - taking time out for a year or two to take stock, enjoy things the way they are, consolidate, that's OK too. But eventually you need to get in with it. You've got this far - nothing you have fell into your lap, after all. You'll be fine.

And - as I always say - don't went kids? Don't have them. With a partner that does want them? Sort it out, sooner rather than later. Think you're not ready to have kids? Nobody is. Most people figure it out in the end. Done don't. But you're a top bloke, Shoulders, you'll be fine.

[Squink]

The having kids with anxiety and depression thing, I think it depends on how those things manifest themselves in your life. Mrs Squink has battled anxiety and depression in her life and we have two young kids. Strangely, having them around has helped immeasurably with those issues.

I know it's a horrible cliche to start banging on about how your life has more purpose after having kids, but that feeling of 'purpose' (or whatever you want to call it) has helped her tackle her anxiety and depression in a much more proactive way. I don't suffer from either of those things but I did have a shitty upbringing and I think both of us are determined not to let the problems and mistakes unwittingly foisted upon us affect our kids. It's a daily battle, though. I don't want to make it seem like it's easy.

God knows what will happen when they grow up and leave home, but that's still some way off yet. Complete mental collapse of both of us, probably. Hopefully CaB will still be around to offload upon.

[Zetetic]

Double-entry accounting, and abandoning things that bring me upset disproportionate to their importance.

Which is no help at all really, since this thread is about not being able to hold the line on the latter.

I guess those with largely endogenous issues

who had her father walk out on her family due to mental health issues makes that feeling worse

Right. I don't highlight this just for ideological reasons.

What does she do, aside from medicate, to manage anxiety?

[Small Man Big Horse]

One of the first conversations I ever had with Mrs SMBH was about my hatred of most children and how I didn't want any of my own, and fortunately she felt the same way. There's no way I could bring children in to the world given my mental health issues, plus given how I feel the world is going to turn out it'd be cruel to do so. Though it's probably best not to have that argument with folks again. Anyhow, you've the baldness gene so it would be monstrous to have kids Shoulders, tell her that and find someone who is infertile asap.

[Shit Good Nose]

If I may focus on the kids bit...

I'm in two minds with that.  On the one hand I know a couple of people who had one or both parents abandon them and have suffered from the ongoing relating issues, and specifically and purposely had kids to vicariously have a childhood and to make sure they would never be thought of in the same way as their parent/s was/were.  And, despite those ongoing issues, the kids have been wonderfully brought up and couldn't have wanted for a better or more caring childhood.

On the other hand...

Speaking directly from my own parenting experience, I suffered GREATLY from paternal post-natal depression which caused me huge stress to the point where I dreaded coming home from work every single day (and I'd regularly be out the door by 6am to get away as well) and weekends were waking nightmares.  This coupled with a highly medicated Mrs Nose on account of her own severe mental health problems (diagnosed as basically in the upper realms of bi-polar but completely without the euphoric highs), which we're pretty sure were caused by a horrible pregnancy (morning sickness became the best part of 6 months confined to bed) and a very lengthy birth (45 hours).  Things have settled fairly well now, my paternal PND, thankfully, was not long term and I've not had any other lasting effects (although I DO get stressed out a lot easier than I used to, and also by much smaller things), and Mrs Nose's meds have been brilliant.  BUT the 9 months of the pregnancy and the first three and a half years were dreadful.  Like REALLY dreadful, to the point where we just left it at the one (we always planned to have two), and Mrs Nose suffered regularly from nightmares about the birth for a good few years.  She still has them now, 8 years later, but less often and less intense.


I think the point I want to make with all of that in mind is that you both need to think VERY VERY long and hard about children and accept the potential realities - pregnancy, birth and bringing up young children are typically portrayed as being wonderful rose-tinted experiences, but our reality - and, I'm sure, the reality of many others - was very different.  Put it this way - the birth of Little Nose is, in all honesty and sincerity, the single most traumatic thing I've ever experienced.  And I watched my dad take his final breath after a very painful battle with leukemia, and I was in a car accident where the car rolled over three times.

[Pseudopath]

Just to throw another pussycat amongst the proverbial pigeons, there is pretty strong evidence that susceptibility to severe, recurring bouts of depression is hereditary: https://www.nhs.uk/news/genetics-and-stem-cells/genetic-link-for-depression-found

[Zetetic]

Estimates of genetic heritability for recurrent major depression are currently of the order of about one-third, I believe.

Most of the likelihood that you'll end up with it is still tied up with things like being a women - which generally isn't considered 'heritable', to be clear - or being poor - which is somewhat heritable but not genetically - or a whole bunch of stuff that S?S! would probably avoid exposing them to. Which is sort of positive.

[Emma Raducanu]

Sympathies with the SGN household. I can relate to the occasional feeling of both not wanting to go home and being glad to get out of the house at 5am. My work can be exhasuting and in all honesty, if I don't get a really good nights sleep, then I know coming back from work to play, feeding, cleaning, cooking, playing, bed time stories, baths, playing, begging the child to sleep is really stressful.

Glad I never let that put me off though. Everything else makes it worth it. It's fine just doing things to satisfy your latest whim but nothing has compared for me than to see my girl learn. Sometimes, like when she's sat on the toilet, she'll just talk away to me, maybe about bees collecting pollen or the sea of tranquility and to see the world through your own child's eyes is the most precious and rewarding thing.

Resist buying a car though. They suck.

[Shit Good Nose]

Sympathies with the SGN household.

Well, thank you, but, however bad things were for us, there are loads of people out there who had and have it much much worse.  That's what I keep telling myself, and it's one of the few things (along with Mystery Science Theater 3000 - that genuinely saw me through that whole period) that kept me relatively sane.

I just think that Shoulders (and, indeed, anyone else in a similar situation) should be given as many honest opinions and relations of experiences as possible.

[gib]

Yes, though at the minute they are being medicated effectively. I do worry if the extra stress of children will be too much.

But uh...I guess those with largely endogenous issues deserve kids if they want them (which she does)

Absolutely. Now, what are your chances of finding someone else who would have you, should you lose this woman?

[pancreas]

As you may know, I'm immune to all this.

Probably comes from having a very obvious and satisfying career path to follow and lots of luck.

I could certainly manage a whole child or even two, but I don't like them at all, in a delightful inversion of the popular meme.

[biggytitbo]

Whenever I find myself becoming overly anxious or thinky about some issue or other I simply remind myself that everything will be dust in a mere microsecond of geological time and none of this matters.


I have to adopt this mindset really, I travel on Northern Rail.

[Sebastian Cobb]

We're probably due a mass extinction or collapse within the next generation or so. Seems a but rum to bring people into that for your own amusement.

[Shit Good Nose]

We're probably due a mass extinction or collapse within the next generation or so. Seems a but rum to bring people into that for your own amusement.

Water and population, those will be next.  Everyone's going on about oil and harvests, but the world's population will increase to the point where we'll soon be fighting the same wars as we are over oil now, but over water instead.  And that will happen a lot sooner than oil and harvests running out, and then there'll be no more drinking water at all.


Jeez, what a cheery thread.  Just what Shoulders wanted, I'm sure...

[Sebastian Cobb]

I've heard it's already getting stockpiled in the Middle East among other places. Of course one of the biggest costs of desalination is the energy it requires, so it's probably a good idea to get cracking on that whole 'abundant cheap energy' thing, will also allow for things like hydroponics so fruit doesn't have to be flown half-way around the world.

However I read a good article a few years ago that said that the sort of people who model this thing with simulations, like a big version of Sim City, but ones that use proper modelling rather than just having the power plants blow up every 5 years, found that no matter what scenario they accounted for or eradicated, another problem took it's place. So it does look like a convergent problem.

[gib]

That's the spirit!

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

If it were only my choice then continuing as we are - including moving in together would be just fine.

Maybe test the waters here with living together before any sprog talk. You never know how that will go and it seems like a horse-before-cart approach.

[hummingofevil]

I doubt this is any help to anyone but it's my story. I've never really been sure if I've got "mental health problems" as I've always just assumed it's what we all put up with and know so many peoplr have it much, much worse but... ...just take from it what you want. Peace and love.

Teaching for 15 years. Stressed to fuck on daily basis leading me to be kicking off with kids all the time - moaning, shouting - just generally being a dick (with plenty of genuine reasons why but really not good way to spend days.)!Was always knackered -  I can't ever go to sleep before 12.30am regardless - so sleeping hours after work every night. Appetite was fucked as I'd have adrenaline rushes and crashes and could easily eat 3 meals at tea time. Put on 4 stone net in 14 years. Got to point where I felt fucking miserable about the whole thing (even though I could be happy generally) and the creeping sense that I was shit at what I was doing was developing into an increasingly powerful negative feedback loop. In summary: not great.

Anyway. Solution.

Saved up enough money to pay bills for 6 months and sacked it off. I know it's unrealistic and I'm living in a total bubble but I feel amazing. Sleeping solid 9 hours a night (up a bit late tonight as I've been travelling). Diet is amazing as have time for proper porridge breakfast that keeps me regulated. No sleepiness, no binge eating, no shouting and lots of happy thoughts. Fact I've spend 1 in 3 days walking around beautiful parts of North East Wales in shine hasn't hurt either..

—-

I know I'm incredibky lucky to be able to do this and it won't last forever but it's really made me realised what I was doing to myself. Whatever I do next will have to fit in around my new priorities cos fuck me if I'm going back to that.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Good for you. Top choice.

[hummingofevil]

Good for you. Top choice.

Giz a job. :)

[Pranet]

Some honest and interesting posts in this thread.

I get pretty anxious, and I also have without much concious thought fashioned a life that avoids quite a lot of stuff because of that.

The question of whether or not to have kids has never really arisen for me. But recently, when I have been feeling anxious, I've been taking some solace in the thought that feeling like that dies with me. I am fairly sure that my anxiety was inherited, either genetically or through socialisation.

[QDRPHNC]

I don't think anybody is every really ready to have to a kid, even if you think you are. They're funny things, in that they will stress you out more than you ever thought possible, but because your connection to them is deeper than anything you've ever felt, you will find reserves of strength within yourself you never knew you had. As a person, I have grown more in my 10 years as a father than in the previous 30.

Having said that, if your partner has severe depression and anxiety issues, you need to be very careful, or at least fully aware of what you might be getting into. If you don't want a kid, or don't want one with her, don't have one. Even if you break up over it. Becoming a parent doesn't change anyone into a new, better person. And certainly for the first 1 - 2 years, the stress will exacerbate whatever issues you have as individuals and as a couple.

[mrpupkin]

Around 18 months ago I walked out on my girlfriend, mainly because my feelings around babies and commitment hadn't matured over the years we'd been together in the way that I had hoped, and she was reaching now-or-never time fertility-wise, meaning I had to shit or get off the pot. After much deliberation, stress and pain I left in the hope that she would still have time to meet someone else who could give her the life she wants and deserves, but to be honest that was doubtful considering how much of her time I had wasted through my indecision and eventual cowardice. Leaving her plunged me into a depression I've never known the likes of and I'm still wracked by guilt, regret and self-loathing to this day despite therapy and generally doing everything I can to try and move on. On the other hand I still feel that staying and having children through gritted teeth would have been wrong for everyone, especially the child/children. I'm not sure that I've learned anything except that maybe you can't go through life without hurting people, and sometimes that hurt might be profound or even life-defining, despite your best intentions. And that sometimes there's no right or wrong answer, there's just having to decide and then having to live with your choice. So I have no advice really but your situation and your fears sounded very familiar so I wanted to offer empathy at least.