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BBC2 Rebranding

Started by Phil_A, September 26, 2018, 07:23:33 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Phil_A

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/25/bbc-two-first-full-rebrand-25-years

QuoteAs part of the revamp, BBC Two will on Thursday drop its on-screen identity based around physical representations of the number two, which it has used in various forms since the early 90s. This will be replaced by a series of colourful visualisations based on a simple curve, which the controller said represented the channel's "constant evolution, constant eclecticism, constant sense of quality". It is also easier to rework and cheaper to create than the old branding.

Hmm, sounds familiar...not a million miles from what Channel 4 did with their "tumbling blocks" idents.

I don't think anyone here wouldn't argue the channel is in desperate need of a shake-up, it's been stagnating for over a decade. Come on BBC 2, be good again! You can do it!

Sebastian Cobb

Channel 4's idents didn't look like a bunch of free wallpapers you get with a linux distribution, to be fair.

Replies From View

QuoteAs part of the revamp, BBC Two will on Thursday drop its on-screen identity based around physical representations of the number two, which it has used in various forms since the early 90s. This will be replaced by a series of colourful visualisations based on a simple curve, which the controller said represented the channel's "constant evolution, constant eclecticism, constant sense of quality". It is also easier to rework and cheaper to create than the old branding.

I'm trying to remember whether a simple curve has ever been used to represent staleness.

The "easier and cheaper" bit is the sole motive here; let's face it.


Still, anything that results in a new Applemask video is fine with me.

notjosh

I liked the little 2s bouncing around. Used to remind me of 6pm weeknights when they had double Simpsons followed by Malcolm in the Middle, Robot Wars or Star Trek Voyager/Next Gen.

Not to mention when they actually had a comedy night every Monday, and not just once a year as an excuse to do a remake of Porridge.

Phil_A

They look quite nice in motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzytqpSREsw

Those horrible CG Twos in the Jane Root era were the nadir of BBC2 branding, tacky as fuck.

Chriddof

Most of them are very good, but there's a few which are weirdly unpleasant. The one with the grey tendrils and particularly the alien creature / purple blobs of fluid one make me feel all horrible. Same sort of feeling I get when I see those internet pictures focused around holes / circles that some people have a phobia of.

I wonder if any station is ever going to adopt a single basic ident again, like the various BBC1 globes or the ATV logo or whatever.

notjosh

Quote from: Chriddof on September 26, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
Most of them are very good, but there's a few which are weirdly unpleasant. The one with the grey tendrils and particularly the alien creature / purple blobs of fluid one make me feel all horrible. Same sort of feeling I get when I see those internet pictures focused around holes / circles that some people have a phobia of.

Agreed. Some of them made me feel a bit sick.

mothman

Pretty. Well, some of them anyway. But I get the feeling they'll get really old really fast.

buttgammon

I like them. As for them getting rid of the 2, the curve is just a '2' with the top and bottom removed, isn't it?

Chriddof

I'd imagine that's the intention - a sort of slightly subliminal suggestion of the number, to move as far as possible from the full "2" symbol without completely doing away with any on-screen reference to what channel it is. (Aside from the bit telling you at the bottom, of course.)

sevendaughters

some nice superior screensavers there, or shots from minor Rephlex artist videos. this isn't a diss. i like them.

buttgammon

Quote from: Chriddof on September 26, 2018, 10:01:12 PM
I'd imagine that's the intention - a sort of slightly subliminal suggestion of the number, to move as far as possible from the full "2" symbol without completely doing away with any on-screen reference to what channel it is. (Aside from the bit telling you at the bottom, of course.)

If so, that's a clever intent to put behind some really nice images.

Saying that, the one with the blobs is creepy and unpleasant but in general, I really like these.

the

I like the curve motif, it's a neat device. The textures are a bit of a mixed bag in execution, but yeh, not bad.

I think where the textures fall short a bit is that they all stridently appear as computer-generated, as opposed to digital imagery which creates the convincing illusion of organic/real textures. These sit on the 'non-reality' side of the CGI uncanny valley (where other idents I've seen go for realism/tangibility).

I'm kind of glad they got rid of the iconic '2', it felt a bit desperate clinging onto it for so long when BBC1 had moved on 4 times since then. Like an admission that they couldn't think of anything better.

Somebody mentioned the C4 idents - I didn't like those self-conciously wanky 'mineral' ones. If ever there was a mismatch between the pretensions of a 'brand' and their actual output, that was it. Channel 4 clearly agreed, they only lasted two years before being replaced by the metallic giant (which is great).

the

I don't know if it's such an issue with HD (I still watch telly in SD), but I find that CGI with a lot of particle systems detail often makes the picture compression go a bit crackers, and you get breakup/artifacting. Looking at a few of these, they could get some trouble with that.

Sebastian Cobb

Still really like Ch4's original ident. Made Central television's look like a shit photocopy.

Channel 4's first 3 ident sets (orig, circles and the square 4 in the corner with the coloured bars) were all great.

It shows how little I've watched Ch4 in the last few years given I didn't even know about the metal giant ones, and that Ch4 apparently changed their logo in 2015!

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: the on September 26, 2018, 10:50:14 PM
I don't know if it's such an issue with HD (I still watch telly in SD), but I find that CGI with a lot of particle systems detail often makes the picture compression go a bit crackers, and you get breakup/artifacting. Looking at a few of these, they could get some trouble with that.

You can still get macroblocking on HD. Although to be honest the compression as it is seems to have an effect of just smoothing over grain and noise that you'd see on a better source like bluray.

Virgin have a UHD channel, but my telly doesn't do UHD, it looks better than their HD sources but still not as good as bluray. Dunno how they're getting their source for that (I've been told anecdotally a lot of Virgin sources are basically off Sky).

Ghughesarch

A couple of those will trigger epileptic fits, one (the alien with the blobs) will certainly set off the trypophobes, and one appears to be part of the opening title animation to 'Watch' on BBC Schools c1975.

the hum

To be fair they are for the most part worryingly good. Worrying in the sense they'll likely be superior to anything subsequently broadcast.

"And now on Two we take an in-depth look into our intriguing re-branding as we join Romesh Ranganathan and Alex Jones, for the Great British Redesign".

steveh

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 26, 2018, 10:56:09 PM
You can still get macroblocking on HD. Although to be honest the compression as it is seems to have an effect of just smoothing over grain and noise that you'd see on a better source like bluray.

H.264 has a macroblock suppression feature so it won't look nearly so bad. Virgin only recently changed over their HD channels to that from MPEG2, but to squeeze in the recent new HD additions they're now squashing 7 rather than 6 channels in each HD multiplex so quality has dropped.

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 26, 2018, 10:56:09 PM
Virgin have a UHD channel, but my telly doesn't do UHD, it looks better than their HD sources but still not as good as bluray. Dunno how they're getting their source for that (I've been told anecdotally a lot of Virgin sources are basically off Sky).

BBC, Sky and UKTV channels are sent to Virgin from the playout centres as uncompressed feeds over fibre. Most of the others are taken off satellite and recompressed with enough headroom to make it not particularly noticeable. I assume the playout of the UHD channel is done internally.

Wet Blanket

They seem pretty but a bit bland, and very of the moment.  The 2010s equivalent of the white and pastel TWO logo of the late 80s.  They're better than the terrible current BBC1 stings though, which have no personality whatsoever.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Johnny Yesno


biggytitbo

Why didn't they rebrand as an old couple in an armchair tutting at things because the average age of their viewers is now in the 60s?

Fambo Number Mive

Changing onscreen branding seems like a waste of money. I do wonder how much all the idents have cost the BBC over the years. Surely if you are charging people £150 a year for a service you have a duty to spend money wisely. Are people really more likely to watch BBC programmes if they change the idents? Why not reuse some older ones if you need to shake things up?

BBC 2 rebranding should focus on actual programme content in my view, not what is on the screen while people announce the programmes.

Fambo Number Mive

Meanwhile police have to spent time escorting BBC presenters to an alternate set after technical issues at the BBC. As if they don't have better things to do.

QuoteThe presenter flagged down a passing police car after she got stuck in traffic with BBC home editor and presenter Mark Easton just 40 minutes before the news bulletin on Wednesday. Minutes later, Easton posted a photo from a police car.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/10/bbc-news-forced-to-play-old-content-on-live-channel-for-an-hour

Does Bruce think the police are there to ensure BBC News programmes go out on time?

shh

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on October 11, 2018, 09:59:44 AM
Meanwhile police have to spent time escorting BBC presenters to an alternate set after technical issues at the BBC. As if they don't have better things to do.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/10/bbc-news-forced-to-play-old-content-on-live-channel-for-an-hour

Does Bruce think the police are there to ensure BBC News programmes go out on time?

Shades of On the Hour there: I'm filled to bursting point with News, I need to explode in a controlled studio environment.

the

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on October 11, 2018, 09:49:13 AMChanging onscreen branding seems like a waste of money. I do wonder how much all the idents have cost the BBC over the years. Surely if you are charging people £150 a year for a service you have a duty to spend money wisely. Are people really more likely to watch BBC programmes if they change the idents? Why not reuse some older ones if you need to shake things up?

BBC 2 rebranding should focus on actual programme content in my view, not what is on the screen while people announce the programmes.

The most tedious template funding opinion ever.

Have you bought some new trousers lately? How can you justify buying new trousers when there was nothing wrong with the old ones? You should be sorting your problems out instead of spending money on trousers

Yours,

Dr. Oetker, Armchair Prioritiser

Fambo Number Mive

There's a massive difference between someone using their own money to buy something new for themselves and a corporation wasting licence fee payers money on updating idents that make no difference to whether people watch programmes or not.

You haven't actually responded to what I said in the post, just called it tedious and template (as if you're implying I don't have ideas of my own)  and compared it to something completely different.

Why is changing onscreen branding a good use of licence fee payers money? Will it have any effect on what people chose to watch? How many people do you know who complain that they don't like watching the BBC because the idents are boring?

Also, going down this road, people buy new trousers so they look stylish (the BBC should worry more about whether its programmes hook people in, not what is on the screen in the few minutes that the announcement is given), so they have something to wear when their old ones are in the wash or because they want to look smart.

Imagine if the BBC had to make another round of people redundant in a few years time and then the figures for how much was spent on changing the idents since 2000 was revealed.

There are 16 "Curve" idents commissioned from studios around the world. Is that a good use of money?

This is how much the idents unveiled in 2006 cost:

Quote...The BBC today unveiled the first eight idents at a cost of £150,000 each, and given that BBC1 aims to produce as many as 15 over the life of the new range of promotional clips, the total cost could rise to as much as £2.25m.

"Dancers", introduced in 2002 by Lorraine Heggessey, have run on average 30 times a day ever since. The series of six cost £700,000, averaging £117,000 each

The channel's new look, developed under the BBC1 controller, Peter Fincham, will debut on Saturday October 7. There will eventually be a total of around 16....




the

Name a TV station that never updated their presentation. If you can, also state what happened to it. And think on.

Did you threaten to buy trousers?

Yours,

Dr. Oetker, Armchair Accountant

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on October 11, 2018, 09:49:13 AM
Changing onscreen branding seems like a waste of money. I do wonder how much all the idents have cost the BBC over the years. Surely if you are charging people £150 a year for a service you have a duty to spend money wisely. Are people really more likely to watch BBC programmes if they change the idents? Why not reuse some older ones if you need to shake things up?

I like them. I think they're inventive. And I say that as someone who usually hates branding and the people who make their living from it. It seems audiences do think differently about the channel depending on the idents, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbpITaGT4-8

QuoteBBC 2 rebranding should focus on actual programme content in my view, not what is on the screen while people announce the programmes.

Surely getting both right is the ideal.