Creed II

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

This sequel to the surprisingly good reboot of the Rocky franchise is out soon. Here's the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u22BXhMu4tI

Rocky Balboa (2006 boxing film) was, or so it seemed at the time, the natural end-point for this series. It was clearly intended as the final chapter in the Rocky saga, and I thought Sly did a fine job of retiring his one truly great creation with pathos and dignity. It was everything the much-maligned Rocky V failed to be - a natural return to the gritty, human roots of the series.

When I heard that they were making yet another Rocky film - albeit with our lovable ham and egger in a prominent supporting role - I worried that it would undo the rather perfect ending of the previous film. Turns out I was wrong.

The first Creed film tapped into everything we loved about the Rocky films in the first place. It was a relatively low-key yet entertaining underdog story, a character drama first and foremost. Michael B. Jordan was very good as Creed, he's a quietly charismatic actor, and Stallone delivered his subtlest performance since, well, the last time he played Rocky.

So what do we reckon to Creed II? Creed Jr fighting the son of the man who killed his father is a typically all-too-neat Rocky sequel conceit - you can imagine Sly jotting it down on a napkin - but I have faith in these people to deliver another good film.

Melodrama, heart, excitement and pathos - that's all we require.

[garnish]

Mrs Huxtable didn't play Apollo Creed's wife in the original films, did she?

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

She didn't, no. Apart from Rocky Jr - who's played by a different actor in every sequel - the widowed Mrs Creed is the only recast role in the entire series.

[bgmnts]

I can't wait until Creed trains the son of his nemesis from this film after Creed V and Creed.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

After the previous film successfully reestablished the series' bona fides as serious drama, it seems weird that they're instantly moving to evoke its ridiculous '80s nadir in the sequel. Not that I expect this to end with Adonis single handedly defeating communism or anything, but I would have thought they'd want to keep all references to Rocky IV as vague as possible.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

It's odd, I agree. Ivan Drago - a one-dimensional cartoon bad guy - is totally at odds with the serious, back-to-basics tone of Creed and Rocky Balboa. They'll have to reconfigure him as an actual human being who could conceivably exist within this gritty world, but I find it hard to imagine Dolph Lundgren delivering a subtle, naturalistic performance.

[Kelvin]

The fourth film is really popular, though, isn't it? I've always got the impression it's the most popular outside of the original, albeit for very different reasons. Certainly Drago is Rocky's most famous opponent outside of Creed. It's maybe the most referenced by pop culture in the entire series, too. 

[bgmnts]

After the previous film successfully reestablished the series' bona fides as serious drama, it seems weird that they're instantly moving to evoke its ridiculous '80s nadir in the sequel. Not that I expect this to end with Adonis single handedly defeating communism or anything, but I would have thought they'd want to keep all references to Rocky IV as vague as possible.

Considering the manufactured fear of Russia it wouldn't surprise me if they went Rocky IV

[bgmnts]

The fourth film is really popular, though, isn't it? I've always got the impression it's the most popular outside of the original, albeit for very different reasons. Certainly Drago is Rocky's most famous opponent outside of Creed. It's maybe the most referenced by pop culture in the entire series, too.

Nah III is the favourite I think.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

The fourth film is really popular, though, isn't it? I've always got the impression it's the most popular outside of the original, albeit for very different reasons. Certainly Drago is Rocky's most famous opponent outside of Creed. It's maybe the most referenced by pop culture in the entire series, too. 

Yes, Rocky IV was the highest-grossing film in the entire series, but Stallone - who's not daft - must be aware that most folk regard it as an entertaining piece of daft '80s kitsch? It bears no relation whatsoever to the grit of Rocky and the post-Rocky V films.

Mind you, the man is still churning out risible Rambo and Expendables films, so he can't really be trusted.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Nah III is the favourite I think.

The original Rocky is a set-in-stone classic, a truly great film. Rocky II is a sturdy, funny and poignant companion piece (it doesn't really feel like a sequel, it's as if the cameras kept rolling after the climactic fight in Rocky).

I appreciate, however, that Rocky III and Rocky IV - fun films both - may be more popular for different reasons. Not great pieces of 'art' like the first film, and to a slightly lesser extent, its sequel, but fondly regarded three-bags-of-popcorn entertainment nonetheless.

Rocky V is the only truly shite film in the series. The one good thing you can say about it was Stallone deciding to save Rocky at the end, rather than killing him off. Rocky being pummeled to death in a street fight against some twat with a mullet was no way for that character to go out.

[thecuriousorange]

Modern movie brands with lots of sequels have become, inevitably, soap operas with different generations of characters. Without a reboot it's impossible to avoid.

A spin-off about the daughter of Clubber Lang entering the ring could work in the right hands. The amount of screen time devoted to the cartoonish Mr T will determine how seriously it is taken. They might have to kill him off if they want something worthy, woke and gritty.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Well, no one is denying that the Rocky series can continue without a new generation of characters. That's the whole point of Creed. It's been a successful, sensitively handled reboot.

I don't really understand your point.

[Z]

The fourth film is really popular, though, isn't it? I've always got the impression it's the most popular outside of the original, albeit for very different reasons. Certainly Drago is Rocky's most famous opponent outside of Creed. It's maybe the most referenced by pop culture in the entire series, too.

The fourth is the one people will reference a lot cos it's such a ridiculous Reagan era relic. Would be surprised if many genuinely find it more enjoyable than III, and considering Mr T's whole career stems exclusively from Rocky III, a career of playing no character other than Clubber Lang, I'd say he outflanks Drago too.
Rocky III is a great kids film with a great kids film baddie.

I like Rocky V as a response to IV, it's a terrible film but I get the impression Stallone himself felt kinda gross about where the fourth film had taken the character.


Low expectations for Creed II though, as far as director quality goes it does look like they've taken a bit of a nosedive.

[mothman]

I've never seen III. Or V, come to think of it. Or RB. Or Creed. You know, I don't quite know where I was going with this...

[colacentral]

I think IV is loads better than III - the latter is caught between two worlds, being neither ridiculous or serious enough to be entertaining. IV is everything you want in a cheesy sports film, being virtually nothing but back to back montages and one-liners. It's short too. It's virtually a long music video.

I liked Rocky Balboa but don't understand the good reception Creed got; I thought it was pretty bad. Unevenly paced, a terrible villain, cringey music career subplot, and I thought Rocky was written a bit out of character.

I really don't rate Coogler as a director, as I had issues with the performances and action in both Creed and Black Panther.

[SavageHedgehog]

It looks like a bit of a Rocky II retread in many ways (although not in tone), and there is a general sense of a series being stretched to breaking point of sheer redundancy, but it looks stylish and I think the Drago angle, which honestly could probably have been covered in a scene or two in the previous film, might be just enough to see the series through to one more solid entry. Subject to change depending on the actual film of course, but I hope they have the sense to call it a day here even (heck, especially) if it's really good, well received and successful. Imagine they wont be able to resist a trilogy though.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

If they do make a third and final Creed film, I hope they don't go down the obvious route of killing Rocky off. They toyed with that idea quite effectively in Creed - Rocky getting cancer and going through chemo was an emotionally manipulative move, but I thought it was handled quite sensitively - but I don't actually want to see him die on screen.

Call me a sentimental old sod if you will, but I prefer the thought of him quietly getting on with his life before dying in his sleep at a ripe old age. The final scene from Rocky Balboa was perfect, really, a nicely understated and touching farewell to that character as he gently fades into the distance. No one would've complained if they'd just left him there.

[Z]

I think IV is loads better than III - the latter is caught between two worlds, being neither ridiculous or serious enough to be entertaining. IV is everything you want in a cheesy sports film, being virtually nothing but back to back montages and one-liners. It's short too. It's virtually a long music video.

I liked Rocky Balboa but don't understand the good reception Creed got; I thought it was pretty bad. Unevenly paced, a terrible villain, cringey music career subplot, and I thought Rocky was written a bit out of character.

I really don't rate Coogler as a director, as I had issues with the performances and action in both Creed and Black Panther.

Nah, 3 straddles the line perfectly. I don't want a full on 80s music montage thing, maybe I would if I was born ten years earlier.

I don't rate him highly either, but I've seen both Fruitvale Station and the Land (Steven Capel's other film) and one was a lot better than other. His critical acclaim for Fruitvale prolly gave him the room to overrule some of Stallone's worse ideas.
Creed only really got by for me in the last third or so. Once it got to the actual match it was hitting some Rocky vibes pretty well.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I wonder how much influence Stallone had over Creed? He's listed as a producer and he apparently made a few uncredited contributions to the screenplay, but I don't get the impression that he had a huge amount of creative involvement with the project (apart from acting in it, obviously).

Creed II is different, of course, as he's co-written it. He was originally set to direct, but that plan fell by the wayside for some reason.

[biggytitbo]

If they do make a third and final Creed film, I hope they don't go down the obvious route of killing Rocky off. They toyed with that idea quite effectively in Creed - Rocky getting cancer and going through chemo was an emotionally manipulative move, but I thought it was handled quite sensitively - but I don't actually want to see him die on screen.

Call me a sentimental old sod if you will, but I prefer the thought of him quietly getting on with his life before dying in his sleep at a ripe old age. The final scene from Rocky Balboa was perfect, really, a nicely understated and touching farewell to that character as he gently fades into the distance. No one would've complained if they'd just left him there.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have him tragically become trapped in his battered useless body by a degenerative brain disease caused by his many years of being battered around the head?

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

That potentially tragic plot development was introduced in Rocky V, before being entirely forgotten about within 20 minutes.

[bgmnts]

https://youtu.be/CeFMxy4QPMc

The Rocky series needs more Clubber, it really does

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Bumping my own thread as I couldn't think of anywhere else to post this incredible surge of demented fuckery. Sly has designed his own range of pens.

A big fuck off range of chronically ugly and utterly impractical manly pens for men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4XpwLHPlhw

He presumably signed off on this advert too (with a normal pen, as his pens are the size of Sauron's castle).

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

After my mirth subsided, I spent several brow-furrowed minutes researching this, and I've come to the conclusion that it's a spoof. Stallone did endorse that range of horrible pens, but it looks like he only posed for a few publicity photographs. The voice-over at the start is probably an impersonator.

I mean, I know he quite recently appeared in a Warburtons ad, but that had higher production values than this poorly animated atrocity. In the cold light of day, it's hard to imagine the famous film star Sylvester Stallone signing off on such a shoddy advert.

Damn you, internet wags, you got me again.

[Dex Sawash]

Surely there should be knives in that line too.

[gotmilk]

There are loads of other adverts on that channel so it's real.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

There are loads of other adverts on that channel so it's real.

The blurb beneath the Sly clip is so obviously a piss-take.

[gotmilk]

So do you think the pen company is spoofing Sly's persona with his permission then? Because there are lots of real pen adverts on the channel including this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=157&v=xzgcg9A5wTg

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

As I say, Sly legitimately endorsed those pens, but the advert I posted above appears to be a piss-take.