Author Topic: #GayCake  (Read 2381 times)

Jockice

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2018, 11:05:35 AM »
A gay cake these days is hard to find.

Crumbs, it's a new page.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2018, 12:51:56 PM »
The bakery's a private business, not a public service. They should be able to refuse to serve whoever they like for any reason they like.

If it goes wrong, it's their own fault and they lose money, or possibly the entire business.

It's like getting a knockback from a bouncer on the door of a club. Deal with it, spend your money elsewhere.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2018, 01:36:53 PM »
I am confused though, if its illegal to not hire someone based on their colour/sexuality/whatever, why is it acceptable to not serve someone based on that?

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2018, 01:40:00 PM »
I am confused though, if its illegal to not hire someone based on their colour/sexuality/whatever, why is it acceptable to not serve someone based on that?
It's not. That's not what the case about.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2018, 01:41:34 PM »
It's not. That's not what the case about.

To some it is...?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2018, 01:43:22 PM »
To some it is...?

It really isn't. If you even bothered reading the previous pages of the topic properly you would never have posted that.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2018, 01:45:55 PM »
Hang on did I misread Bronzy's post?

I tend not to read threads more than a few posts in as it udually descends to some form of bickering. LESSON LEARNT.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2018, 01:47:49 PM »
The bakery's a private business, not a public service. They should be able to refuse to serve whoever they like for any reason they like.

If it goes wrong, it's their own fault and they lose money, or possibly the entire business.

It's like getting a knockback from a bouncer on the door of a club. Deal with it, spend your money elsewhere.

This is clearly where Martin Luther King and his mates went wrong; should've just waited for all those white restaurant owners to go out of business.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2018, 01:52:13 PM »
I stopped believing in what I posted halfway through writing it, to be honest.

Sorry.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2018, 01:55:50 PM »
This is clearly where Martin Luther King and his mates went wrong; should've just waited for all those white restaurant owners to go out of business.

I probably wouldn't compare the plight of gay people in the UK today to that of black people in 1960's USA.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2018, 02:15:44 PM »
I stopped believing in what I posted halfway through writing it, to be honest.

Sorry.

Fucksake

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2018, 03:17:03 PM »
Fucksake

Sums up my life really.

All a bit half-arsed.

Kishi the Bad Lampshade

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2018, 09:44:35 PM »
It's interesting to compare this with the recent similar case in the US, which also found that the baker had the right to refuse to make the cake.

In the US case, a baker refused to do a wedding cake for a gay couple, rather than a cake with a "support gay marriage" slogan. IMO, the UK case was correctly decided but the US case was wrongly decided (I have looked at the case in quite a bit of detail and have a law degree so I'm not entirely talking out of my arse here); it should be legal to refuse to do a "support gay marriage" cake but not a wedding cake. Anti-discrimination law says that you are allowed to refuse to do any type of service you want, you're just not allowed to refuse service to certain groups of people (on grounds of sex, race etc.) if you would provide them to other people. So for example, if someone wants a bunny cake, you're allowed to say "nah I fucking hate bunnies mate, go somewhere else". But you're not allowed to make a bunny cake for a Christian and then refuse to make one for an atheist.

The way they got around this in the US case was by saying a wedding cake was a type of "speech" and therefore you are still free to refuse to make the cake even if you're discriminating. The reasoning was that wedding cake isn't just any type of food, it's a special food that has artistic merit, takes a lot of thought and creativity, has a symbolic meaning etc. and making one is therefore a sort of political act that you should not be forced into. However this didn't make a lot of sense on the facts, because in fact a lesbian couple had gone into the same bakery and asked if they'd just make them some cupcakes for their wedding and they also refused that. It's a conservative-dominated Supreme Court in the US right now so honestly they're just going to do what the fuck they want and screw the gays. But the UK decision looks about right to me.

Dex Sawash

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2018, 10:04:46 PM »
Am in San Francisco for a few days, place is literally made completely of gay cake. Delightful but a bit dirty.

Golden E. Pump

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2018, 10:54:37 PM »
If they make cakes for homosexuals, maybe sales of these will slump to an all time low.

gib

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #105 on: October 11, 2018, 11:22:52 PM »
If they make cakes for homosexuals, maybe sales of these will slump to an all time low.

Lenny Henry, Tracey Ullman and David Copperfield are looking etc

How can it be a decade since that went out, sheesh.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #106 on: October 11, 2018, 11:29:27 PM »
If they make cakes for homosexuals, maybe sales of these will slump to an all time low.

"Babycakes" was actually recorded the day the group first met.

It shows.

Maurice Yeatman

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2018, 12:16:56 AM »


The country is banjaxed.

Re: #GayCake
« Reply #108 on: October 13, 2018, 07:41:39 PM »
It's interesting to compare this with the recent similar case in the US, which also found that the baker had the right to refuse to make the cake.

In the US case, a baker refused to do a wedding cake for a gay couple, rather than a cake with a "support gay marriage" slogan. IMO, the UK case was correctly decided but the US case was wrongly decided (I have looked at the case in quite a bit of detail and have a law degree so I'm not entirely talking out of my arse here); it should be legal to refuse to do a "support gay marriage" cake but not a wedding cake. Anti-discrimination law says that you are allowed to refuse to do any type of service you want, you're just not allowed to refuse service to certain groups of people (on grounds of sex, race etc.) if you would provide them to other people. So for example, if someone wants a bunny cake, you're allowed to say "nah I fucking hate bunnies mate, go somewhere else". But you're not allowed to make a bunny cake for a Christian and then refuse to make one for an atheist.

The way they got around this in the US case was by saying a wedding cake was a type of "speech" and therefore you are still free to refuse to make the cake even if you're discriminating. The reasoning was that wedding cake isn't just any type of food, it's a special food that has artistic merit, takes a lot of thought and creativity, has a symbolic meaning etc. and making one is therefore a sort of political act that you should not be forced into. However this didn't make a lot of sense on the facts, because in fact a lesbian couple had gone into the same bakery and asked if they'd just make them some cupcakes for their wedding and they also refused that. It's a conservative-dominated Supreme Court in the US right now so honestly they're just going to do what the fuck they want and screw the gays. But the UK decision looks about right to me.

Hmm I dunno.  I don't have a law degree so probably am talking out of my arse, but at least as far as personal opinions go... I think when it comes to a wedding cake, okay it's not writing a message, but it's facilitating a gay marriage, which of course they're opposed to (I  mean, I guess technically you don't need a cake to get married,  but it's considered standard procedure, so as a religious nutter you're helping some gays get married).  To borrow Thomas's idea from page 2 of flipping it on its head, say you're a liberal type selling megaphones.  A bunch of nuns come in and want to buy some megaphones for an anti abortion protest.  Hopefully you have the freedom to say no so that you're not helping to facilitate the protest, rather than getting done for religious discrimination after agreeing to sell some to atheists earlier that day...

Paul Calf

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #109 on: October 13, 2018, 10:19:17 PM »
I like the idea of the far right using cakes as campaigning tools. If Hitler had written Mein Kamf in icing would the war have turned out different I wonder? Makes you think.

I’d have hoped he’d have a better proofreader.

Kishi the Bad Lampshade

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Re: #GayCake
« Reply #110 on: October 15, 2018, 11:20:55 PM »
Hmm I dunno.  I don't have a law degree so probably am talking out of my arse, but at least as far as personal opinions go... I think when it comes to a wedding cake, okay it's not writing a message, but it's facilitating a gay marriage, which of course they're opposed to (I  mean, I guess technically you don't need a cake to get married,  but it's considered standard procedure, so as a religious nutter you're helping some gays get married).  To borrow Thomas's idea from page 2 of flipping it on its head, say you're a liberal type selling megaphones.  A bunch of nuns come in and want to buy some megaphones for an anti abortion protest.  Hopefully you have the freedom to say no so that you're not helping to facilitate the protest, rather than getting done for religious discrimination after agreeing to sell some to atheists earlier that day...

In your example it wouldn't be religious discrimination though, that's a decision based on the nuns' purpose rather than who they are (obviously religion as a political choice vs an identity gets into slippery territory but it's generally been put as a discrimination category on grounds of its 'identity/ethnic/cultural' type character rather than a 'political opinions' type character, and the caselaw that I know of has generally only confirmed religious discrimination where the religious person did not want to do anything disruptive to other people's lives but merely wanted to assert their identity e.g. wearing a religious symbol at work). Marriage is a normal and non-disruptive thing that we've decided is a part of living out our identity; if you won't do a wedding cake for a gay couple that's a 'who' matter than a 'what' matter, if that makes sense.