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We need to talk about why we don't talk about new music

Started by alan nagsworth, October 11, 2018, 05:46:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

alan nagsworth

When I say "we", I'm talking about this subforum. New music discussion is extremely few and far-between in here and it's bumming me out. Honestly like 85% of active threads in here are about artists of the past, or subject-specific music of the past, or - jesus wept - fucking reissues. I've started two threads in the last week about new/very recent music and they've completely flopped.

We seem to be sinking into the same hole that other nooks of the internet fall into, whereby people are singularly interested in talking/arguing about what they already know and not at all interested in using the place to discover something new. Even in the "What are you listening to" thread, the discussion (or lack of) is just people talking at other people. It's very rare that anyone's checking out what others have mentioned, especially when all you're doing is posting a fuckin' picture of the album cover. Ditto those of you who half-arsedly post untagged YouTube URLs. Lazy, uninteresting shite. It's not like this in other subforums, either. They're full of recent film/book/game chat with plenty of engaging discussion.

I will admit that I'm by no means innocent, but I will argue my corner by saying that I at least try and talk about the things I've discovered in a fashion that might inspire others to have a go, and it's the lack of others' enthusiasm which saps my own. We need to be doing far more in here because music is the greatest art form, and there've been some fantastic rising artists and new releases this year. This is my favourite part of the forum and I am increasingly feeling like I can't be bothered to post here any more. Can we please make more of an effort?

Pingers

I see where you are coming from, but I don't know what is 'new' to other people. Like, I'm really enjoying Gogo Penguin at the moment, that feels kind of new but they've got about 3 albums already. So if I post about them as 'new' music, might I be pasted by people to whom this is old hat? Good for you if you have enough time, money and freedom to go and see genuinely new bands you know nothing about and uncover exciting stuff, but not everyone is in that position.

Happy to give it a go though.

Funcrusher


Brundle-Fly

I see what you're saying. Firstly, I don't know how to put the title in the link so I tend to type the description above it. I always try to watch the links on music threads and have discovered lots of old and new stuff over the years.

Anyway, I think it boils down to people wary of starting a thread on a specific new album/ act they currently enjoy because they rarely get beyond a few posts. Start a thread on an established act and you're guaranteed to get more feedback. It's easier to get a discussion going

I agree the lists of bands (even with lovely images) with no added explanation to why one recommends them are a bit pointless. In something like the CaB Best Of annual album nominations, most of the time all you can do is compare notes, "Oh look, so and so likes the new Blowtorch Bandersnatch album too. Woo!"

There might also be a simple fact that most people here are getting older and don't have the time or inclination to discover new stuff? I try to keep up but it's all too accessible now and the sheer glut of new music has become overwhelming to me. Missed out that new Indo-lo-fi drill'n'bass acid wave act? Don't worry here comes some more of that tomorrow.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: Pingers on October 11, 2018, 06:06:55 PM
I see where you are coming from, but I don't know what is 'new' to other people. Like, I'm really enjoying Gogo Penguin at the moment, that feels kind of new but they've got about 3 albums already. So if I post about them as 'new' music, might I be pasted by people to whom this is old hat?

That isn't strictly what I mean. Ideally what I'd love to see more of is artist-specific threads like the (Sandy) Alex G one I started, which in an ideal world would have responses in equal measure of "I love this artist, I'm glad someone else does! What's your favourite song?" and "I have never heard of this artist! Here's what I think". Alex G isn't a new artist but he's relatively under the radar and I think a lot of people here could dig his work. Instead, it's almost entirely gone ignored.

Quote from: Pingers on October 11, 2018, 06:06:55 PM
Good for you if you have enough time, money and freedom to go and see genuinely new bands you know nothing about and uncover exciting stuff, but not everyone is in that position.

I didn't say that, and I can't afford that either, but YouTube costs nowt (at the moment, lol).

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on October 11, 2018, 06:12:54 PM
There might also be a simple fact that most people here are getting older and don't have the time or inclination to discover new stuff? I try to keep up but it's all too accessible now and the sheer glut of new music has become overwhelming to me. Missed out that new Indo-lo-fi drill'n'bass acid wave act? Don't worry here comes some more of that tomorrow.

Aye, well that's why I post so enthusiastically about the things I discover, because the sheer accessibility of things means that posting a blank link or a band photo is nowhere near enough to engage people into checking it out.

Individual new album/artist and new discovery threads are vital here, I think. I would also propose something like tags in the thread titles, like [genre], [new music], [hidden gem] and whatnot. You always need a hook.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on October 11, 2018, 06:12:54 PM
I see what you're saying. Firstly, I don't know how to put the title in the link so I tend to type the description above it.

Oh! and by the way, it's like [url.=youtube.com/blahblah]Katy Perry - Firework[/url] but remove the full stop after "url".

:)

Brundle-Fly

Hit Parade - Custard Flux

My first time to do that! Yay!   Thanks Nags.

I like this lot. They're new and sound a bit like Cardiacs meets XTC. Got to wave a bit of a carrot?

http://houseofprog.com/blog/2018/06/02/custard-flux-release-helium/

buttgammon

I agree with you, and I agree with you precisely because I don't listen to as much new stuff these days and this place could be a great way of helping me to discover new music.

When Cab Radio was at it height, lots of New/ unknown music used to get played. It was a really good medium for spreading the word. I recall picking up several artisits from Kanes Jone's show alone. The truth about new music is its become very fragments. Everything is put into micro genres and there isn't a Mass Media platform any more that encourges everybody to watched an be exposed to new music. The single chart dosn't even represnt what people listen to these days, it could be argued that the Album chart has become the premium chart over the Singles chart as a reflection of what people are listening too.

Pingers

Another thing: not knowing what people are listening to online music with is an issue. For example, Kelly Lee Owens is great, but it's pointless listening to her music on shitty laptop speakers because the warm analogue sounds are so much of the appeal. I might start another thread about that because some music is only worth sharing if people can hear it properly, often where bass is essential.

hummingofevil

#10
I'm off to Tusk Festival in Newcastle for weekend and almost everyone playing is new to me. It's a pretty out-there program so been listening to stuff to work out what I'm most looking forward to. TBH I rarely listen to new music unless there is a chance of seeing them live or it's dance music stuff in mixes a few of my mates do (mainly Lobster Theremin type stuff).

Anyway the things I'm realky looking forward to are:

- 75 Dollar Bill

Brooklyn guitar-percussion (with bit of saxophone at times) duo. I got quite into Sahel Sounds stuff and particularly liked Mdou Moctar'a Sahara desert guitar playing. You can here the influence in 75DB's stuff but rhythmically they push it a bit more at times.

https://youtu.be/04b5YgQQAtk

- Irreversible Entanglements

Free jazz with Moor Mother fronting them. Started as protest to police violence.

https://youtu.be/Fllrn2hE43c

Lucy Railton, Chaines and Lea Bertucci have also been on my speakers this week but no idea what to expect. This is suitably intriguing

https://youtu.be/ZT01rUtbPQQ




jobotic

I've been introduced to Aldous Harding tonight. She' been mentioned on here before. Singer songwriters do my head in a bit, and she might be a bit of a small doses thing but blimey.

But yeah, most new music I discover is old.

alan nagsworth


chveik

,

Sin Agog

I used to listen to something like eight, nine hours of new musiks a day.  Then I realised I was probably getting some kind of dopamine fix whenever I wrapped my ears around a new piece of sonic architecture, and cooled it down.  Maybe too much, but I do get the impression that some of the pitchfork types keeping abreast of every possible snippet of new music they can find are probably running from something; I definitely was.  Perhaps somewhere between Steve Hoffman/buying the seventh reissue of that Neil Young album and "I never listen to the same album twice" would be a healthy place to be in.

Maybe dropping your particular musical sources would help a few peoples?  Used to be you'd find a few blogspots like Mutant Sounds or whatever and you'd be set, but there are so many more cultural rabbit holes to fall into and the exact same amount of time in which to do so.  Not complaining at all, as I feel that's a much better state of affairs than everyone worshipping these far-off chimerical Gods.  There is now less remove than ever between musician and audience, like it's reverted to a folk form again.

hummingofevil

Quote from: alan nagsworth on October 12, 2018, 12:01:25 AM
Last three posts are missing the point. Smashing.

Soz. Tried to explain why I don't really listen to new music never mind discuss it and tried to make an effort by telling you what new music I am going to be listening to in coming days.

What you been listening to Nags? WHY is it any good?

(I've been listening to Drama! by Erasure over and over and over again - would you like me to post a link?)

—-

Kane Jones

Quote from: Delete Delete Delete on October 11, 2018, 08:22:33 PM
I recall picking up several artisits from Kanes Jone's show alone.

Cheers Del, likewise from your shows (and many others).

I play lots of new stuff on my local radio show too, hoping to expose people to some new sounds. The reason I don't start threads is because I'm not very good at writing about music and why I like it. I can compare it to other stuff or post links, but I can't write creatively enough about the stuff that's blowing my socks off. I've heard about 100 new records released this year that I think are good (and a few that are brilliant) and am happy to share them on here. Just don't expect more than; "This is good electronic music. Sounds a bit like Jean-Michel Jarre. Here's a link."

Camp Tramp

I tend to listen to Radio 6 for my fix of new music. Generally though it seems like I'm discovering new to me music rather than actually new.

Recently I have heard more Idles like bands on there.

alan nagsworth

Regarding those who wouldn't know how to talk about the music they're into, I really think some sort of an agreeable system could tie in this and a few other issues we're facing here.

Quote from: Kane Jones on October 12, 2018, 10:08:01 AM
"This is good electronic music. Sounds a bit like Jean-Michel Jarre. Here's a link."

For example, I don't see that there's anything wrong with this ^. You could start a thread, for example, with the title:

Cavern of Anti-Matter [krautrock/space rock] [new album]

Then in the thread, you don't need to try and be creative with your writing, you just need to elaborate more on how the thread title already acts as a springboard. Like:

QuoteYer man Tim Gane (Stereolab) and his band are back with their third album "Hormone Lemonade". It's fucking great! You can't go wrong with a motorik grooving 16-minute opening track, that's for sure. Kraut heads, fans of Kraftwerk, Cluster and all that lovely stuff, you're in for a treat here.

Make Out Fade Out

Phase Modulation Shuffle

Get amongst it. They're also absolutely corking live, so if you get the chance, go and see them!

I often feel like I probably write too much on here in individual posts, to be honest, but that's because I really really want people to check out new things! But maybe I'm actually spreading it on too thick, and could do with winding it in a bit.

Also for the people who keep posting here saying "new music I discover isn't actually new" you're missing the point. If it's new to you and you think other people need to hear it, friggin' post about it! Word of mouth recommendations are so exciting to me. I would really like us to engage more with that here.

Kane Jones


holyzombiejesus

I agree with the OP and get especially frustrated when any specific new release threads get lost amongst yet another list thread that we already had 2 months ago.

I listen to lots of new music but I don't really start a new thread because, I dunno, I don't really have anything interesting to say about it. As much as I'm enjoying the new Haiku Salut and Teleman albums, I'd struggle to write enough about them to justify a specific thread. I don't feel particularly confident about writing in a descriptive way so end up just quoting reviews or record shop bumpf. It's also disheartening to see any thread sink like a stone with no replies. I guess I should pay more attention to the threads that others start and will start to try and do so. Hard when you mostly post from work though.

We really miss Serge don't we?

EDIT: Wrote this before Nagsworth posted his comment....

holyzombiejesus

Quote from: alan nagsworth on October 12, 2018, 10:47:21 AM

I often feel like I probably write too much on here in individual posts, to be honest, but that's because I really really want people to check out new things! But maybe I'm actually spreading it on too thick, and could do with winding it in a bit.


No, please don't.

Kane Jones

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on October 12, 2018, 10:56:33 AM
It's also disheartening to see any thread sink like a stone with no replies.

The last Oscillations thread I started was about Jon Hopkins' latest album Singularity. I think it got about 6 replies. I've got no problem with people not liking the same stuff as me, but it's disheartening when that's the best you can expect. I'd rather people slated the album than not bother getting involved at all.

bgmnts

Let's be honest though, people, new music IS shit, isn't it?

Kane Jones


sardines


QuoteI'm off to Tusk Festival in Newcastle

Be sure to catch Limpe Fuchs

holyzombiejesus

We could start by maybe sacking off the 'What are you listening to?' thread as most posts about new stuff seems to go in there. I do it myself as it's somewhere you can lazily mention new records and hope to kickstart a discussion. That rarely happens though. Having said that, this place isn't a music magazine and maybe there should be somewhere for people to feel comfortable just stating whatever they have just bought.

sardines

I finally joined the forum as there was some interesting threads on music I'm into. So I can see where this is coming from.

That said any internet forum discussion on new music inevitably ends with a few knob jockeys listening to 10 second clips on youtube and proclaiming it to be shit (see recent discussion on Idles).

gilbertharding

This is my account of why I don't talk about new music. You might find it a familiar tale...

It's because it's all changed and I find it frightening. A few years ago - mid noughties I guess - I'd be revelling in all this new music I suddenly had free access to, and telling people about it online or in real life... and then the next thing you know, their hot new sound is just the soundtrack to a new mobile phone/car/toilet roll advert. And they were never a real band anyway. They were formed specifically to sell a song to The Man. And their album is being advertised on Friday night channel 4 and the voice-over isn't even being done by Steve Lamacq.

It's like there's been a deliberate polarisation of the Talking About New Music. The Pitchfork mob on one side and the People Who Don't Care on the other. Could be part of the reason the NME went under - trying to ply the centre ground just didn't fly.

I spoke to a young person recently. As a consequence I bought CDs (I know, I know) by Flying Lotus and Thundercat. Other young people of my acquaintance like K Pop, or else daytime Radio 1...

NoSleep

The "What are you listening to at the moment [not a list thread]" is actually a list thread inasmuch as new music gets recommended in there (and even listened to by others who give feedback). Some interesting discussion goes on in there. If something's good enough to post in there (and it's something new to you, or even a reconfirmation or reappraisal) it's probably worth starting a thread about (given that all music at some time needs to be listened to at the moment).

Hearing something amazing for the first time (whether it's a scratchy old tune from the 1920's or something released this week) is the most exciting that music can ever be. The problem is that there's quite a lot of dross to trawl through to find it; more than there's ever been.