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We need to talk about why we don't talk about new music

Started by alan nagsworth, October 11, 2018, 05:46:38 PM

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holyzombiejesus

Quote from: sardines on October 12, 2018, 11:12:17 AM
I finally joined the forum as there was some interesting threads on music I'm into. So I can see where this is coming from.

That said any internet forum discussion on new music inevitably ends with a few knob jockeys listening to 10 second clips on youtube and proclaiming it to be shit (see recent discussion on Idles).

Knob jockeys?

Funcrusher

Knob Jockeys are well overrated. Pitchfork shit for cunts.

holyzombiejesus

Also, whilst I don't think that threads for individual records ro artists should just be filled with positive comments, I don't like the idea of just posting to criticise. I just had a listen to Alex G and thought it was ok but nothing special. I think it'd be a bit shitty to wade in to Nags' enthusiastic thread and just pfft all over it. If you don't like something and haven't previously had an interest in the artist, there seems little point in posting just to state you're not arsed about their music.

And if you think the 'what are you listening to?' thread is bad, you should take a look at the 'what are you reading?' one.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: gilbertharding on October 12, 2018, 11:12:24 AM
Other young people of my acquaintance like K Pop, or else daytime Radio 1...

Nowt at all wrong with either of those things, specifically K-pop which is fucking great.

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on October 12, 2018, 11:30:22 AM
Also, whilst I don't think that threads for individual records ro artists should just be filled with positive comments, I don't like the idea of just posting to criticise. I just had a listen to Alex G and thought it was ok but nothing special. I think it'd be a bit shitty to wade in to Nags' enthusiastic thread and just pfft all over it. If you don't like something and haven't previously had an interest in the artist, there seems little point in posting just to state you're not arsed about their music.

And if you think the 'what are you listening to?' thread is bad, you should take a look at the 'what are you reading?' one.

Thank you for the kind words about my waffling in your previous post.

Firstly, I certainly would welcome negative comments in my threads as opposed to nothing at all. That said, you'd maybe need to constructively elaborate a bit more on those thoughts (e.g. "This is alright. Personally though I don't think it's a patch on stuff like Elliott Smith") as a throwaway dismissive comment would probably be disheartening to read. Music discussion should most certainly not just be "this is great! who agrees? yep? good!" I want to know why people dislike stuff as much as why they like it. That's why I started the thread about IDLES. Art is just as much about deconstruction as it is about praising it to the heavens.

Secondly, I agree that the "What are you listening to" thread is a big negative space. [n]NoSleep[/b] notes that there is interesting discussion in there, but I went back about five pages in there before creating this thread and found that there are a very small percentage of posts which are engaged with, and even then, only extend to two or three replies at most. I don't think that's nearly enough.

Clownbaby

Thing that often annoys me about starting a "recommend me more in this genre" type thread is there's usually one smug cunt who deliberately posts a link to something off topic because they don't like the genre and think they should give the people in thread an education (not just on this site mind you) "cheesy Euro Pop is not a credible genre so here's some Krautrock for your cheesy Euro Pop thread eh you're welcome lads get your ears round this" Cue the thread dying cause people just start debating what is credible music and what isn't

Norton Canes

I do listen to a lot of new stuff and I do mean to dump a few remarks on here about a lot the stuff I've heard but I'm not especially good at reviewing music, so anything I end up consigning to the board is invariably quite laconic. Plus also these days, in my eagerness to hear more and more new music thus proving that I am not irrevocably square, I don't give new stuff much of a listen before I'm on to something else therefore the details don't have a chance to sunk in.

I mean come on anyone reading this far will realise why I don't write about music

SpiderChrist

There's too much music. I can't cope.

CaB has helped me to discover some marvellous music over the years, for which I am very grateful. Stars Of The Lid is the standout one, and the recent choral music thread lead me to the Eton Choirbook, which is fucking astonishingly beautiful.

As for new music, well if I haven't heard it, it's new to me. This is my criteria.

saltysnacks

Run The Jewels are pretty good, a lot of modern hip-hop is good. So long as it isn't that fucking mumblerap shite.

saltysnacks

Quote from: Clownbaby on October 12, 2018, 11:49:32 AM
Thing that often annoys me about starting a "recommend me more in this genre" type thread is there's usually one smug cunt who deliberately posts a link to something off topic because they don't like the genre and think they should give the people in thread an education (not just on this site mind you) "cheesy Euro Pop is not a credible genre so here's some Krautrock for your cheesy Euro Pop thread eh you're welcome lads get your ears round this" Cue the thread dying cause people just start debating what is credible music and what isn't

You could almost say it 'crushes the fun'.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Well I posted in the Guy McKnight thread.

I've started threads dedicated to one album in the past and it is disheartening when they don't get much response, but I can understand why it happens. If you don't know a band/singer, then a thread with their name in the title isn't likely to elicit much interest. Certainly, over the years, I've discovered more music through threads that focus on entire genres.

Threads that devolve into lists and no actual discussion are more annoying. It's not as if you need to post an essay - just some thoughts to get the ball rolling.

Pingers

Quote from: saltysnacks on October 12, 2018, 05:31:39 PM
Run The Jewels are pretty good, a lot of modern hip-hop is good. So long as it isn't that fucking mumblerap shite.

Run the Jewels are great. "Thieves" and "Don't Get Captured" are the best hip hop tracks I've heard in years. Unlike a lot of hip hop, the music is really, really good, not just a lame backing track to rap over.


Chairman Bodog

80% of CaB are old enough to have great great grandsproggos and Kanye West isn't that interesting, even to Melanie.

There's some good grime and hardcore out this year though. Ghett's new album is killer. https://youtu.be/OxblwXser3A

saltysnacks

Quote from: Pingers on October 12, 2018, 08:26:01 PM
Unlike a lot of hip hop, the music is really, really good

Definitely. That's the first thing I noticed when I listened to Run The Jewels 2, I love the beat on Angel Duster.

Kane Jones


alan nagsworth

Quote from: bgmnts on October 12, 2018, 08:38:33 PM
Prove me wrong, my main man.
Quote from: saltysnacks on October 12, 2018, 05:31:39 PM
Run The Jewels are pretty good, a lot of modern hip-hop is good. So long as it isn't that fucking mumblerap shite.

I'd prefer it if this thread didn't turn into people posting music recommendations or talking about their own listening habits too much, please. I'm trying to figure out a way to make this subforum a more active place on the whole.

I really think it's essential that we focus more on individual threads for artists, new releases and music you've just discovered. I also think that the "What are you listening to" thread should be scrapped.

If you're going to start new threads, I would suggest putting tags in the titles such as [genre] [type of thread (new album/hidden gem/that sort of thing)].

It's also important that you don't feel intimidated about writing long, descriptive posts. You can easily keep it concise by telling us what sort of music it is, who's in the band or whom the artist has worked with (as a vague example, just some facts), similar artists (if you like X, you'll probably dig Y) and just be enthusiastic!

Conversely, negative criticism should at least try to be a little more constructive so as not to dissuade any further discussion by just being like, "this is shit though lads".

These, I reckon, are concise and accessible ways to keep new music discussion alive in Oscillations. Ultimately, we all love music, and it's important we find a roughly universal way in which to communicate it.

Do people agree this is a good idea? And of course, if anyone has ways to elaborate on this, by all means speak up.

Pingers

Look, I'm with you on the general point (and I started a thread on Mary Hampton who no-one has heard of (WHICH YOU HAVEN'T REPLIED TO), so I've started doing it, ok?), but you can stop telling us what to do now, you can't claim Hegemon.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: Pingers on October 13, 2018, 12:19:14 PM
Look, I'm with you on the general point (and I started a thread on Mary Hampton who no-one has heard of (WHICH YOU HAVEN'T REPLIED TO), so I've started doing it, ok?), but you can stop telling us what to do now, you can't claim Hegemon.

I'm trying to be as polite and open about this as possible. This is the sort of issue where, if brushed over, people won't take it seriously and it'll be forgotten about. It's a forum, people can do what they want. All I'm trying to do is steer it in what I believe to be a purely positive direction.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Pingers on October 13, 2018, 12:19:14 PM
Look, I'm with you on the general point (and I started a thread on Mary Hampton who no-one has heard of (WHICH YOU HAVEN'T REPLIED TO), so I've started doing it, ok?), but you can stop telling us what to do now, you can't claim Hegemon.

Yes it's really surprising a thread that starts with 'we need to talk about' contains passive-aggressive attempts to cow people into doing things isn't it?

Barry Admin

As requested, I've locked the "what are you listening to thread" to see if that helps. I hate those threads and finds them very stifling, largely because it can already be tricky to get the shy buggers on here to start new threads, so they just look for somewhere else to bing stuff. So I feel that threads like that tend to swallow up a lot of interesting targets.

So let's see how this goes.

Cheers.

Sebastian Cobb

That's a shame, I got lots of interesting obscure bits from what Head Gardener listened to (I even bought Gary Clail's Emotional Hooligan off the back of it).

Clownbaby

#51
I would have been more on board with the thread if it hadn't been titled with "we need to talk about" cause I've always thought Oscillations is a bit sparse compared to the other forums, but I see "we need to talk about" and I instantly think "oh here we fucking go"

NoSleep

It's a joke, not a demand. We need to talk about not talking, geddit?

Clownbaby

Quote from: NoSleep on October 13, 2018, 02:46:55 PM
It's a joke, not a demand. We need to talk about not talking, geddit?

I did get that, but "we need to talk about" is also the default thinkpiece phrase lately so it always makes me think of that amd that's why I automatically think "here we fucking go"

NoSleep


Clownbaby

#55
Quote from: NoSleep on October 13, 2018, 02:51:26 PM
And Sebastian Cobb's comment was joking, too.

Aye but the thread that starts with "we need to talk about" kind of is passive aggressively trying to cow people into doing things, and I just said I agree with that despite ALSO agreeing with the general sentiment of the thread trying to improve Oscillations as well. Whatever, I don't give a fucking shit anymore.

NoSleep


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

It makes me think of the book and subsequent film adaptation We Need to Talk About Kevin. Clearly Nagsworth is implicitly threatening to kill us with arrows if we don't buck our ideas up.

Bow massacres aside, I think his suggestion of including the genre in thread titles is a good one.

alan nagsworth

I don't know where the term "passive aggressive" comes into this. The thread title might appear that way, but there's humour implied in how annoying that phrase is (plus I believe Tallulah, really! once started a DIM thread called "We need to talk about We Need To Talk About Kevin" so I was sort of riffing on that too). Beyond that, I'm not masking my intentions behind anything; this is a subject that's clearly important to me and I'm trying to spearhead new ways to invigorate the board.

If anything, my approach was mildly aggressive, but I felt that was necessary. If you'd tried to create discussion in a forum-conventional fashion - by starting a thread about an artist, expressing some clear love and passion - and were all but ignored on several occasions, you'd be irked as well. Clownbaby, you're one of my favourite posters for creating consistently engaging threads on here, so I'm a bit taken aback that you seem to find some offence in what I'm doing!

jobotic