Watching Doctor Who (2005) from the middle of the beginning

[madhair60]

I never saw all of Ecclestong or Tengnant so I'm giving the cunts a shufty. Here are my shit, badly-thought out opinions so far.

The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances

GOOD THIS. Meldrew's face CBBCing into a fucking gasmask, properly sexy. Good emotion and lovely ending in general with Chrissy-babe all shouting, big smiles.

Boom Town

GOOD THIS. Entire episode worth it for Mickey falling over the cleaner. Shit ending but I suppose they needed to set up the even shitter ending of the season.

Bad Wolf

GOOD THIS. I thought it would be complete wank but I really loved how silly it was. Captain Jack and the Trinny & Suzanah robots fucking hell. So silly.

The Parting of the Ways

TIRESOME THIS. Army of Daleks do fuck all then it just sort of ends. Ecclescake's parting speech is terrific though.

The Christmas Invasion

Some weirdly bad editing in places (the satsuma throw) but this was a lot of fun too. I enjoyed them cunts being attacked by a christmas tree even though it made no sense and was never explained.

Do You Like These Episodes And The Following Episodes Talk About Them Please

[madhair60]

Post in my fucking thread you dicks.

[Delete Delete Delete]

Stop wasting your time and give us more Space Cunts!!!

[mothman]

Space Cunts Invade Basildon, that's my favourite.

[Deanjam]

I rather like RTD's first series. Series 2 I found awful. Tennant and Piper are smug central together. Prepare for Rose, Rose and even more Rose. Everything is about her, even after she's gone.

The Girl in the Fireplace is the best episode of that year by far. I also quite like the 2 parter The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit. School Reunion is okay if you can stomach Sarah Jane being turned into a whimpering fangirl.

[Talulah, really!]

Hopefully most of these links still work if you fancy a trip back in time...

Rose

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg222760.html#msg222760

The End of the World

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg226763.html#msg226763

The Unquiet Dead

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg231677.html#msg231677

Aliens of London

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg235764.html#msg235764

World War Three

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg240056.html#msg240056

Dalek

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg244419.html#msg244419

The Long Game

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg248960.html#msg248960

Father's Day

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg253193.html#msg253193

The Empty Child

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg257355.html#msg257355

The Doctor Dances

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg261059.html#msg261059

Boom Town

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg264773.html#msg264773

Bad Wolf

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg269496.html#msg269496

The Parting of the Ways

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg273947.html#msg273947

Children in Need

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg375508.html#msg375508

The Christmas Invasion

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg397466.html#msg397466

Series 2

New Earth

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg472522.html#msg472522

Tooth and Claw

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg476343.html#msg476343

School Reunion

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg479864.html#msg479864

The Girl in the Fireplace

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg483265.html#msg483265

Rise of the Cybermen

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg487046.html#msg487046

The Age of Steel

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg491336.html#msg491336

The Idiot's Lantern

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg495783.html#msg495783

The Impossible Planet

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg500492.html#msg500492

The Satan Pit

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg505529.html#msg505529

Love & Monsters

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg509992.html#msg509992

Fear Her

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg514500.html#msg514500

Army of Ghosts

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg518401.html#msg518401

Doomsday

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg523169.html#msg523169

The Runaway Bride

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg613388.html#msg613388

Series 3

Smith and Jones

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg662956.html#msg662956

The Shakespeare Code

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg667091.html#msg667091

Gridlock

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg671091.html#msg671091

Daleks in Manhattan

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg675356.html#msg675356

Evolution of the Daleks

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg679506.html#msg679506

The Lazarus Experiment

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg683141.html#msg683141

42

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12511.msg690982.html#msg690982

Human Nature

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,14804.msg693981.html#msg693981

Family of Blood

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,14804.msg698560.html#msg698560

Blink

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,14804.msg702258.html#msg702258

Utopia

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,14804.msg705678.html#msg705678

The Sound of Drums

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,14804.msg708517.html#msg708517

Last of the Time Lords

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,14804.msg711759.html#msg711759

[Mister Six]

Blimey, well done!

[BritishHobo]

I still find the humiliation of Mickey to be fucking weird and disproportionate. It's like Jerry from Parks and Rec but without any irony.

[purlieu]

I find the first series really, really dull for the most part. It feels oddly skeletal in comparison with what the show developed into, with some really bad CBBC style production values, a lot of utterly forgettable stories, and farting aliens. The Empty Child two parter is strong though.

Second series is slightly better, particularly because of The Girl in the Fireplace, which is still my favourite new Who episode, and the Satan Pit two parter. 10 and Rose are a hideously smug pairing though, and the ending is the most unnecessarily over the top thing ever, like being smashed in the face by someone screaming "FEEL SADNESS YOU IDIOTS". The loss of Rose also means we no longer get the whole "The Doctor bullies a black kid for no reason" subplot. Also most of the stories are still pretty shite.

Third series starts in a similar vein but gets better, the second half being mostly excellent - Blink, Human Nature and the first two parters of the Master story all being very strong.

The Fourth series is good almost all the way through, with a lot more experimentation and obviously better use of budget, although it's somewhat let down by the RTD's Greatest Hits of the final episode. And obviously the TARDIS dragging the Earth across the universe (does it affect gravity? Does it fuck, everything remains ok. Does he do the same with the countless other missing planets? Does he fuck, he's just got a boner for Earth at this point).

The specials are a mixed bag. Waters of Mars and The End of Time part 1 are pretty good.

Overall, despite the number of really strong episodes, particularly near the end of his run, nothing dislodges this image in my head of RTD's era being really cheap and plasticky, full of horribly broad humour and not very tasteful colours and CG and stuff. At times it almost reminds me of McCoy's first series in its utter poor taste. I know its accessibility, stunt casting and Doctor / Rose love story were all really big parts of what helped the show become a huge hit, and it's undoubtedly the version of the show we needed to bring it back with a bang and ensure longterm success, but it's still mostly a programme I watched because it was Doctor Who, rather than being the sort of thing I would tune into if it was a new show. Also, I hate the fucking mopey "I killed my own people" version of The Doctor.

[Norton Canes]

The Fourth series is good almost all the way through, with a lot more experimentation and obviously better use of budget, although it's somewhat let down by... the TARDIS dragging the Earth across the universe

Not as badly as it's let down by the Doctor dragging Catherine Tate across the universe.

[Black Ship]

Not as badly as it's let down by the Doctor dragging Catherine Tate across the universe.

ftfy

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Not as badly as it's let down by the Doctor dragging Catherine Tate across the universe.

Tate was great in Doctor Who.

[Jerzy Bondov]

I still find the humiliation of Mickey to be fucking weird and disproportionate. It's like Jerry from Parks and Rec but without any irony.

In the Target book of Rose, RTD tries to undo this by giving Mickey some friends who like him. Nice try.

I hated so much about the RTD era. It used to make me so cross. Every series finale is godawful. Purlieu is right on the money calling it tasteless, plasticky, cheap. Gaudy is the word I'd use. Embarrassing. Characters spouting vague prophecies. Back of fag packet denouements. Rose saying 'this is the day I died' and then not dying. Harry Potter references in an episode about Shakespeare. The Doctor torturing aliens. All of Voyage of the Damned. The Doctor turning into a little goblin. Big clockwork Cyberman smashing up Victorian London. Bloke getting sucked off by a paving slab. The Doctor's Grand Farewell Tour Of All His Best Friends (from the last four years).

Three episodes into the Chibnall era and I miss RTD very much.

[Kelvin]

The first series is mostly wank, but I do think "End of the World" (or whatever the 2nd episode is called) is one of the best standalone romps they ever did. 

[Sin Agog]

I'm trying, really slowly, to get into this on Netflix, after previous aborted attempts.  I'm about up to the second episode of S2.  When does it stop feeling so much like Eastenders in Space?

Just to counter the snobbiness, I have liked some of the more emotional moments where it seemed to graduate into its own from the O.G. series.

[Norton Canes]

Plenty to love in that first series. Dalek is excellent (though Joe Aherne can't do action sequences), The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances is obviously one of Moffat's finest moments, The Unquiet Dead is by some remove Gatiss's finest moment, Aliens Of London/World War III has plenty to commend it, Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways is satisfyingly Dalek-ridden, Rose gets by on shock value alone... sure, there are a few less effective stories but the production team are really finding their feet, and the end product is rarely less than thoroughly entertaining.

[imitationleather]

Aliens of London/World War III was the moment where I began to have severe doubts that the new Doctor Who was aimed at me.

[Deanjam]

The shit comedy kills it (like in all new-Who) but I like the first part with the ship crashing into Big Ben and the pig-astronaut.

[Norton Canes]

It's a long time since I re-watched it but the speech from the Doctor when he's barricaded himself inside no.10 in the second episode was also a pretty good moment, ISTR.

[Kane Jones]

The first series is very good. The only episodes I don't like are The End Of The World and the farting aliens ones (including Boom Town). The rest are pretty great, with The Unquiet Dead, Dalek, Father's Day and the Moffat two-parter being excellent.

[Mister Six]

RTD's Who had a lot of cringey cartoony shit, but underneath all that was some properly deranged stuff. I don't like the paving slabs blow job but I applaud the lunatics who signed off on it.

Chibnall's Who is far more competently filmed and better produced as a "proper" TV show, but it's so fucking anodyne in comparison. Whittaker meets Rosa Parks and saves her from a man in a leather jacket. Tennant meets Agatha Christie and saves her from someone's six-foot wasp lovechild. In the RTD era it really felt like any mad fucking thing could occur at any point. It was janky and shambolic, but admirable, I think.

[purlieu]

I'm trying, really slowly, to get into this on Netflix, after previous aborted attempts.  I'm about up to the second episode of S2.  When does it stop feeling so much like Eastenders in Space?

It gets less soapy once you lose the Tyler family after S3, but it's not until Moffat's arrival that it really cuts back (probably helped by moving most of the Earth-based stuff out of London).

Chibnall's Who is far more competently filmed and better produced as a "proper" TV show, but it's so fucking anodyne in comparison. Whittaker meets Rosa Parks and saves her from a man in a leather jacket. Tennant meets Agatha Christie and saves her from someone's six-foot wasp lovechild. In the RTD era it really felt like any mad fucking thing could occur at any point. It was janky and shambolic, but admirable, I think.

I'm hoping we do get an oddity or two later in this current series, but the relative low-key-ness of it so far is really reminding me of the '60s era. I like the fact that the first Doctor saves the planet from a bloke dressed as a monk and a business man trying to sell some far-too-dangerous pesticides. One thing that began to grate by Capaldi's run was Moffat trying to have every episode as a weird complex puzzle of some kind, so the smaller scale simplicity we have at the minute is refreshing for me.

[Zetetic]

but it's not until Moffat's arrival that it really cuts back

And ultimately rejects any kind of engaging humanity in favour of obtuseness masquerading as cleverness.

But I think I'm probably quite partial to the soap-opera-with-sci-fi-shit arrangement.

[Replies From View]

But I think I'm probably quite partial to the soap-opera-with-shit-sci-fi arrangement.

I'm sure that the BBC higher-ups are hoping for Chibnall to reengage with this demographic.

[purlieu]

And ultimately rejects any kind of engaging humanity in favour of obtuseness masquerading as cleverness.

Oh, I thought Amy and Rory were great, some lovely characterisation and storytelling there. It all fucked up with Clara, of course.

[Phil_A]

RTD was really good at was selling zeitgeisty attention-grabbing high concepts, but maybe not so great on following through on them. He's an ideas man, not a details man.

The Doctor's in the Big Brother House! Ooh, what does he do in there? Erm...nothing, he just leaves and goes somewhere else.

The Doctor's on the Titanic but it's in SPACE! Ooh, what happens? Not much, he walks around, some people die.

But one thing I do miss is the buzz he created around the show, he was great at making every new season feel like an unmissable event, something often lacking throughout the Moffat era.

[Deyv]

And obviously the TARDIS dragging the Earth across the universe (does it affect gravity? Does it fuck, everything remains ok. Does he do the same with the countless other missing planets? Does he fuck, he's just got a boner for Earth at this point).

I think there's a brief line where he says something along the lines of "there's one planet left, oh what a fucking surprise it's your one." Not that that justifies the idea, though as much as people rag on it I think a show that can include lassoing the Earth back into it's place with a magical police box is one worth having around. The moon's an egg, too. I don't think Dr Who will be doing anything like this any time soon.

[Isnt Anything]

RTD was really good at was selling zeitgeisty attention-grabbing high concepts, but maybe not so great on following through on them. He's an ideas man, not a details man.

The Doctor's in the Big Brother House! Ooh, what does he do in there? Erm...nothing, he just leaves and goes somewhere else.

The Doctor's on the Titanic but it's in SPACE! Ooh, what happens? Not much, he walks around, some people die.

But one thing I do miss is the buzz he created around the show, he was great at making every new season feel like an unmissable event, something often lacking throughout the Moffat era.

He also managed to do four straight years in a row of 14 episodes, something it seems that no other fucker will ever achieve.

Whether you love or hate his episodes - qualified love for me - at least he could do THAT.

[Deanjam]

And ultimately rejects any kind of engaging humanity in favour of obtuseness masquerading as cleverness.

Oh I dunno. Amy's Choice, Vincent and the Doctor, The Doctor's Wife, Night Terrors and The Girl Who Waited all had bits that brought a tear to my cynical old eyes. Whereas RTD's overblown emotion always left me cold. Horses for courses innit.

Anyway, as purlieu said it was the arrival of Clara that killed Moffat's era for me. He seemed to think she was the most wonderful girl in the world instead of evil hellspawn that must be destroyed somewhat irritating.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

You've all read The Writer's Tale, I take it? An absolutely fascinating first-hand account of RTD's tenure, which leaves you in no doubt about the man's slavish commitment to writing, producing and promoting Doctor Who.

I agree that he was often guilty of coming up with theoretically good and outlandish ideas while failing to do them justice, but he was also capable of writing some cracking scripts when inspiration struck. Same goes for Moffat.

After reading The Writer's Tale, I've found it difficult to watch any of his episodes without picturing him anxiously chain-smoking while wandering around Cardiff Bay in the dead of night, as he struggles with deadlines and the sheer pressure of it all. He comes across as a workaholic spinning far too many plates - a genial, talented man teetering on the verge of a nervous breakdown.