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Predator 2 is actually pretty good: Discuss

Started by AliasTheCat, October 23, 2018, 09:43:47 PM

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AliasTheCat

Ever since my dad bought me a pirated VHS copy of Predator 2 at a car boot sale in Exeter's livestock centre in 1995, I've held a fondness in my heart for this oft-maligned sequel. The original is a masterwork of action-film efficiency, but I would suggest that the sequel achieves all that you could reasonably expect: the finest stock characters are plucked from the plethora of 80s cop movies instead of it's militaristic action films, the original is a claustrophobic fight for survival, whereas here there's a very real risk of collateral damage among the civilian population of LA, and the imagined guerrilla presence of the original is replaced by the very real threat of an all-out drugs war. Also, there are boobs.
Sure, it's not perfect, only a fool would argue that it's better than the original, and the alien skull at the end caused more trouble than it was worth, but does anyone else actually really quite like this film?



Shit Good Nose

Yep, genuinely always liked it.  I love the transfer from the hot empty jungle to the hot densely populated city, I love the gang war vs. the game, I love the fact they went for a completely different kind of lead, I think the comedic moments are mostly well placed and well handled (although I would get rid of the walking through wall and old couple in bed double take - that belongs in another film), I love the expansion of the Predator as a character, I actually do like the alien skull.

In my personal opinion I think there's very little to criticise and it's in my top 10 worthy sequels.

AliasTheCat

Hooray! Personally, I love the transfer from stock, muscular army guys to stock maverick cops. I actually think it's a pretty clever move.

colacentral

I watched it again a few weeks ago and wrote this in the new Predator film thread so I'll just paste it:

Quote from: colacentral on October 01, 2018, 05:54:39 PM
The first is brilliant, all about the suspense and build-up to the final one on one fight. Structurally it's almost a Rocky film, or an adult Home Alone.

I tried giving the second another chance a few weeks ago. During the first ten minutes I thought I'd got it wrong, being quite pulled in by the mayhem of the world. But I turned it off during the subway scene, just couldn't take it anymore. Aimless, illogical film; shot completely flat and uninteresting; weird line delivery which sounds like everything was badly overdubbed; and a low-rent Robocop ripoff vibe to it, really more like Robocop 2 or 3.

I don't think the script is that bad, I think it could have been saved. The fault lies primarily with the director as it's technically so dated and uninteresting with really poor performances. I think the worst and most early 90's scene is that one where Danny Glover meets the Jamaican guy in the alley - that is a microcosm of all the film's failures in one scene.

Like Robocop 2 it just feels completely off to me, where the gulf in talent between the behind the scenes crews of the originals and the sequels is glaringly obvious. It's the opposite to say, The Empire Strikes Back, where the sequel feels more cinematic. Robocop 2 and Predator 2 go bigger but feel cheaper.

AliasTheCat

Can't discuss the direction, because it's been a long while since I've seen it, but I would add that I quite like Robocop 2 as well, as I think it did as good a job in terms of escalation from the premise of the original as could be expected (the Robocop 2 sequence is a particular high.)

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: AliasTheCat on October 23, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
I would add that I quite like Robocop 2 as well.

As do I.  Also in my top 10 worthy sequels.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Yeah, it's alright. Funny that Robocop 2 should get a mention as, even at whatever young age I was when I first saw Predator 2, I had a feeling that it was a bit naff, but in a fun, sub Verhoeven sort of way.

Golden E. Pump

It's terrible. Only saw it once, never been remotely compelled to watch it again.


Shaky

Nah, it's very bad. Danny Glover is also wooden as fuck whenever he's playing a non-Murtagh authority figure.

SavageHedgehog

It starts and ends well, how can you not have a soft spot for a film where Gary Busey cosplays as Martin Fry, but inbetween it's a bore. Glover goes around trying to find out about a mysterious alien, which is not so intriguing for an audience already on film number 2. But put me in the pro-Robo2 pack.

greenman

Quote from: Shaky on October 24, 2018, 02:26:36 PM
Nah, it's very bad. Danny Glover is also wooden as fuck whenever he's playing a non-Murtagh authority figure.

In this case though not a great deal is being asked of him given the cast of characters the film has.

Bogbrainedmurphy

I'm a big fan of it. Some hammy performances and a slightly daft setting with the urban warfare and Tony Pope stuff but the Predator is excellent in it, probably my favourite looking Predator bar Wolf in AVPR (until Wolf takes his mask off, like).

Always so wished to see the mythical cut scenes - extended kill sequences of the drug gang at the start, a scene in the taxidermists which sounds daft and brilliant...

It's a fucking great sequel, as is Robocop 2! End of!!

greenman

The era of the underrated sci fi sequel shown repeating on ITV in the late 90's.

garnish

Quote from: Shaky on October 24, 2018, 02:26:36 PM
Nah, it's very bad. Danny Glover is also wooden as fuck whenever he's playing a non-Murtagh authority figure.

Tbf he's wooden when he plays Murtagh as well.

What's with the weird guns they all have?

AliasTheCat

Quote from: garnish on October 25, 2018, 07:16:29 PM
Tbf he's wooden when he plays Murtagh as well.

What's with the weird guns they all have?

It's set in the future!

checkoutgirl

I'm a fan. Rented it in the early 1990s on VHS and can't remember what I thought of it then but a rewatch about a year ago was very enjoyable. Takes the mythos along nicely. Has Gary Busey and cool action sequences and Predator weapons and a cool new setting of loony Colombians on the verge of a brutal drug war. What's wrong with that.

Better than Robocop 2 which is okay but less fun.


rasta-spouse

I always prefered P2 to P1. The action sequences were better, the city was a much better playground for the predator, and I'm a sucker for subway scenes.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Thumbs up from me too. I actually saw P2 first, mind. Works in its own right.

I think the skull at the end was made by Tool guitarist Adam Jones. Or something.

garnish

Quote from: Blumf on October 25, 2018, 09:04:44 PM
Which one(s)?

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Predator_2

The ones with the little aiming scopes on them.  It's a bit daft to put them on pistol so I wondered if they had a reason for doing it.

Blumf

Quote from: garnish on October 25, 2018, 11:46:56 PM
The ones with the little aiming scopes on them.  It's a bit daft to put them on pistol so I wondered if they had a reason for doing it.

They're laser sights, because future! But yeah, you don't see them much in reality.

I think the first film to use a laser sight on a handgun was Terminator, and it was very new back then, having to be powered by a large battery and a wire running along Arnie's arm, under his coat.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Terminator,_The_(1984)#AMT_Hardballer_.45_Longslide

Bogbrainedmurphy

Quote from: Blumf on October 26, 2018, 01:14:49 AM
They're laser sights, because future! But yeah, you don't see them much in reality.

I think the first film to use a laser sight on a handgun was Terminator, and it was very new back then, having to be powered by a large battery and a wire running along Arnie's arm, under his coat.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Terminator,_The_(1984)#AMT_Hardballer_.45_Longslide

Ahh I love IMFDB, if I remember rightly the entry for Commando goes on for about a week. That laser sighted pistol in T1 felt so futuristic at the time.

greenman

The big question is what happens to the top half of Busey's body?

mothman

^ There's got to be a good Leftovers-themed response to this question, but I can't quite work it through.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: greenman on October 26, 2018, 01:03:16 PM
The big question is what happens to the top half of Busey's body?

Dunno but that abattoir scene is a shameless ripoff of the carnage kickoff scene in Aliens. Cocky humans with their expensive toys getting their sphincter removed through their mouth. Which I have no problem with, homages/ripoffs are inevitable and you might as well copy the best.

As an action flick you can't ask for much more, over the top gangsters, a mean looking villain with extra toys and the ship at the end which goes some way to explaining why the Predator was there. It's got more in common with Aliens in many respects. Some people will not like the cheesy dialogue, the explanation of the mystery or the different setting but I happen to love Aliens.

You might say Glover was a weak point but he does enough for me. One gripe I have is he stands toe to toe with the Predator towards the end and doesn't get his head ripped straight off whereas in the first Predator film a scene like that would be explained better.

Some people complain about the rasta old guy in the alley but that just adds to the schlock action flick appeal for me. I think I might have seen this before the original but a recent rewatch was good fun and if it hold up it holds up. Certainly a worthy companion piece for the original Predator film and given it didn't have Arnie I think it's as good as you could expect. Surely as good or better than any Predator films that came after it and a lads on the beer VHS popcorn classic.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteCocky humans with their expensive toys getting their sphincter removed through their mouth. Which I have no problem with, homages/ripoffs are inevitable and you might as well copy the best.

Which is pretty much the single biggest continuing trope of the Alien/Predator universe.

Johnny Textface