Apu being written out of The Simpsons [split topic]

[Famous Mortimer]

dodgy Michael Moore-style edited interviews.

I wonder why it's just Michael Moore that gets criticised for editing interviews, as if he's the only person who has to trim some length from something. I wonder.

[Replies From View]

It's like these days you can't be critical of something without everyone immediately projecting 'ahh so you want to ban it and censor it and erase it from history'?

Kevin Spacey isn't going to be your pen pal, BritishHobo.  You need to let it go.

[Bhazor]

Why are people still saying it's bad that Hari's got the show changed to suit his sensibilities, when it's been emphasised multiple times that it's not what he was trying to do and not what he wanted to happen? It's like these days you can't be critical of something without everyone immediately projecting 'ahh so you want to ban it and censor it and erase it from history'?

Pretty much. Lots of people working off the Breitbart supplied crib notes. "The casting in this 30 year old show is bad." somehow morphs into "Brown man want destroy western culture!".

[Urinal Cake]

Kondablu on twitter says he never wanted to get rid of Apu just make him less offensive/have a debate etc.

I don't buy into Apu was a multidimensional and tragic figure.

He was a stereotype of the cheap corner shop owner. If he was Jewish and owned a deli  this debate would've happened 20 years ago.

[mr. logic]

That Planet Simpson book criticsed the character of Apu quite heavily, I seem to remember. And that was about fifteen years ago. He made several arguments about why it was a more problematic stereotype that the other ones featured on the show.

[biggytitbo]

Kondablu on twitter says he never wanted to get rid of Apu just make him less offensive/have a debate etc.

I think that's slightly disingenuous as what else could the makers do? They essentially had two choices - either get an Indian actor in to do the voice or get rid of the character.  Presumably they thought after 30 years the first one just wasn't viable, so it had to be the latter.

[Bhazor]

Kondablu criticised a tv show. He did not force them at gun point to make Sophies' Choice you prick.

Better not let any sports writers comment negatively on a sports team otherwise the manager might immediately quit in the middle of a game and there'd be no sports ever ever ever again. Which would be... terrible.

[Clive Langham]

I wonder why it's just Michael Moore that gets criticised for editing interviews, as if he's the only person who has to trim some length from something. I wonder.

Because he's the world's most famous documentary maker?
And because he's notorious for "creative" editing?

[Bhazor]

Of course the real reason for all this desperate nontroversy.



Fucking die Simspons.

[Clive Langham]

I imagine the Simpsons creators thought getting rid of Apu was by far the safest and most logical choice to make. I'm guessing they probably concluded that getting in a voice actor from the Indian subcontinent wouldn't solve the problem, and would probably just open another can of worms.

First of all would they have to get an actor whose natural speaking voice is Apu-like, or would it be acceptable to get someone South Asian who could just put the voice on? But wouldn't the latter be almost as bad as Hank Azaria just putting the voice on? Kunal Nayyar from "The Big Bang Theory" is British Asian and has a sort-of Indian accent, but puts it on a bit for the show. Some people think this is fine, but some people criticise him for it.

Secondly, presumably they'd have to find exactly the right person from the Indian subcontinent, i.e. a Hindu from West Bengal rather than a Muslim from Punjab or a Sikh from Pakistan or they'd get "all Asians are the same to you" criticism. Apu is from Rahmatpur. There are about 3,000 males living in Rahmatpur. Would they have to pick one of them? If they got it even slightly wrong they'd be in just as much shit as they are now.

Thirdly I presume they'd be concerned that the actor chosen to portray Apu would, due to the controversy, have a disproportionate amount of power. Would he demand script input? Would he insist on writing his own lines? (I'm guessing that's not how it works on The Simpsons.) Would he request a greater South Asian presence in the writers' room? (I imagine not even Dan Castellaneta gets to decide who writes his lines.) If he didn't get any of these things would he go to the press or Twitter and complain?


All this is, from their point of view, a minefield – and all for a relatively minor character. Far, far easier to just get rid of him.

[Urinal Cake]

I think The Simpsons put in the too hard basket. There are ways of making Apu less stereotypical or they could've replaced the character. Other voice actors play Indian characters just fine i.e. a non-Indian voices the Indian-American character Connie in Steven Universe because her ethnicity is not her main trait. Some of you are over-thinking this.

The good thing about getting rid of Apu now is that there are a lot of Indian cartoon characters such as Sanjay, Connie etc.

[Sin Agog]

The Who Needs the Quik-E-Mart? song, one of Apu's most memorable moments, kind of puts the kibosh on the guy above's theory that Apu is a comment on highly-trained immigrants being made to slum it.  That sequence is saying that Apu is defined by the Quik-E-Mart and without it he's lost.  An Indian without his convenience store is like the Sea Captain without his boat.

[Blumf]

The Simpsons ends up like that episode of Star Trek TNG where people disappear from existence. Year by year characters are erased from the show until it's just one left in an empty Springfield. The show carries on for several more decades with just the remaining character wandering the desolate town in stunned silence.

Fox refuses to cancel the show citing the fact that the quality is much improved from the season 20's era.

[Maurice Yeatman]

It's not looking good for the Global Warming/Homer Gets a Punkahwallah idea I sent them.

[dontrunyoullfall]

They could go down the route that Apu self identified, Dolezal style.

[Phil_A]

Isn't the problem more a wider thing with regard to how the show has often portrayed foreign or minority characters, thinking of all those often criticised "Simpsons go to a foreign country" episodes? Apu might not be the worst example of that trend, just one of the more visible parts of it.

They're not really addressing the issue by dropping one minor character, and I'm not convinced they're doing it for the right reasons, more likely they just want people to shut up about Apu.

[bobloblaw]

what the actual fuck would be wrong in recasting the voice? For simpsons essentially to say that yes, they trade in, and lampoon, stereotypes, largely in brush strokes but are sensitive to diversity in casting and opportunities for Asian actors?

[biggytitbo]

Kondablu criticised a tv show. He did not force them at gun point to make Sophies' Choice you prick.

Better not let any sports writers comment negatively on a sports team otherwise the manager might immediately quit in the middle of a game and there'd be no sports ever ever ever again. Which would be... terrible.

Even if they had changed the character in a show where all the characters are fixed, and took Kondablu's advice on how they should write their own show, there's still the problem that its a white guy doing the voice. After 30 years that leaves them with the above choice, and I can see why they took the decision they did as I don't think they were left with a better alternative.

[Blumf]

what the actual fuck would be wrong in recasting the voice?

Possibly the other voice actors realising their position isn't as secure as they like and kicking up a fuss.

Didn't they threaten a strike or something a fair few years ago?

[samadriel]

what the actual fuck would be wrong in recasting the voice? For simpsons essentially to say that yes, they trade in, and lampoon, stereotypes, largely in brush strokes but are sensitive to diversity in casting and opportunities for Asian actors?

When they gave Moe a new voice he wasn't remotely as funny as he used to be, but I guess we should be accustomed to that from The Simpsons.

[Sin Agog]

what the actual fuck would be wrong in recasting the voice? For simpsons essentially to say that yes, they trade in, and lampoon, stereotypes, largely in brush strokes but are sensitive to diversity in casting and opportunities for Asian actors?

I think I read somewhere that often when a popular website switches up its format, changes its background and the like, it'll instantly break the spell of familiarity that brought a lot of its visitors back there and lose a chunk of its audience.  You've gotta think the fans that have stuck with them have probably done so because it's like wistfully seeing that old soup stain on the rug every day (surely it can't be because they enjoy it).  Whoever's manning the ship right now is probably terrified of being the one to make a meaningful change that finally bursts the bubble.

[Clive Langham]

what the actual fuck would be wrong in recasting the voice? For simpsons essentially to say that yes, they trade in, and lampoon, stereotypes, largely in brush strokes but are sensitive to diversity in casting and opportunities for Asian actors?

Well I'm guessing part of the reason is they don't want to set a "The Simpsons bows to public pressure" precedent. They get a new actor in for Apu, then the gay pressure groups kick off about Smithers, then the old age pressure groups kick off about Grandpa Simpson and before you know it there's no show left.

[Replies From View]

Of course the real reason for all this desperate nontroversy.



Fucking die Simspons.

Fucking THE Simspons.

[Bhazor]

Even if they had changed the character in a show where all the characters are fixed, and took Kondablu's advice on how they should write their own show, there's still the problem that its a white guy doing the voice. After 30 years that leaves them with the above choice, and I can see why they took the decision they did as I don't think they were left with a better alternative.

And at what point exactly did Kondablu take out a gun and force them to make any choice? I mean criticism is now censorship apparently.

[Replies From View]

and before you know it there's no show left.

Gutted.

[rue the polywhirl]

And at what point exactly did Kondablu take out a gun and force them to make any choice? I mean criticism is now censorship apparently.

In some ways Kondably's criticism was like holding a gun in the back of the Simpsons and going bang bang bang bang and then leaving them to be guzzled by the ravenous PC lions of PC Pride Rock. In the current modern climate where anything implicated in offence causing or even not towing the PC line will lead towards total shutdown, criticism of this nature is verging on the equal to censoring if not beyond it.

[Clive Langham]

Gutted.

Well, it would be no great loss. Unless you work for the Simpsons I guess.

[biggytitbo]

I'm not criticising Kondablu because he has the right to air that criticism and how the character affected him growing up but he was either being naive or disgengious to claim he just wanted them to 'write it better', when he made an entire film on the subject and got global media attention, which any reasonable person should have realised would have put the makers of the show in this impossible position.

[Bhazor]

At what point did he take out a gun and force them to change the show? I mean how dare a brown man say something less than glowing about a 30 year old TV show that even its fans know is at least 15 years past its prime. How dare he!

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

They could have introduced new Apu's relatives or just unrelated Indian recurring characters, voiced by comedians of actual Indian or Pakistani origins (Nanjiani, Ansari, Kaling, Nancherla...) to show more diversity in their representation of the Indian community, but they took the laziest route and decided to bury the character for good.

When was the last time the Simpsons managed to create an interesting recurring character?