Playstation Classic game line-up released

[Bazooka]

I could never get the emulator to work on my PSP, must have followed 12 or so different guides but it just wasn't having it.

Regarding the PS1 classic, not a bad list by any means, sure its missing many obvious classics, but can this thing connect to the internet or what?

[biggytitbo]

Doubt it, but they can usually be hacked.

[Z]

SNES makes it a bit trickier as the PSP can't do SNES worth a fuck. Annoyingly your best option for that is New 3DS, but that can't do PS1.

Well, I'd say PSP does the SNES games I wanted to play fine (turn based JRPGs). Could definitely see some performance issues but nothing that mattered a whole lot.

Getting extremely solid PS1 emulation was way more important to me in 2006, mind.

[NoSleep]

(turn based JRPGs)

Ogre Battle, etc?

[Z]

Ogre Battle, etc?

There was  a PSP remake of Let Us Cling Together that I played instead. FF IV-VI, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound (buggier than the others)... that kind of thing, mainly.

[NoSleep]

Ah, I think of those as standard RPGs (played all of them except Earthbound); who else makes decent RPGs outside of Japan? When you said turn-based I immediately presumed you meant the more tactical ones like Let Us Cling Together or Final Fantasy Tactics, where you battle on a map. Love these, and will probably be plugging in my PSX soon, to play Vandal Hearts 1 & 2 again (or maybe Front Mission 3) because I reminded myself of them earlier in the thread.

[Z]

Ah, I think of those as standard RPGs (played all of them except Earthbound); who else makes decent RPGs outside of Japan? When you said turn-based I immediately presumed you meant the more tactical ones like Let Us Cling Together or Final Fantasy Tactics, where you battle on a map. Love these, and will probably be plugging in my PSX soon, to play Vandal Hearts 1 & 2 again (or maybe Front Mission 3) because I reminded myself of them earlier in the thread.

There are very very good versions of Let Us Cling Together and the original FF Tactics on PSP itself, Disgaea too, Jeanne D'Arc, probably something I'm forgetting too

[NoSleep]

I've got the FF Tactics remake lined up already; never knew about Let us Cling Together, so that and the other two are going on the list.

[Ferris]

I guess the latter, like spiro and crash aren't on there because there are remasters of them.

And the original Medieval is available on the PlayStation store for about 3 quid because I bought it and played it a few months ago. Clunky and ugly but great fun.

[biggytitbo]

The remasters thing isn't a very good excuse though, most of the snes mini games are available in other places, but they're still on the mini because its meant to be its own self contained thing, representative of the consoles best and most iconic games. Sony have messed up here by filling this with games that are either not very good or not representative of what made the original PlayStation what it was. Had to have tomb raider, Wipeout and Crash Bandicoot on at least.

[Ferris]

The remasters thing isn't a very good excuse though, most of the snes mini games are available in other places, but they're still on the mini because its meant to be its own self contained thing, representative of the consoles best and most iconic games. Sony have messed up here by filling this with games that are either not very good or not representative of what made the original PlayStation what it was. Had to have tomb raider, Wipeout and Crash Bandicoot on at least.

Could not agree more (except for the spelling of Wip3out).

[Ferris]

Unless you meant the original wipeout in which case... fair enough.

[Consignia]

Sounds pretty like a pretty poor show from Sony in terms of everything; https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-playstation-classic-emulation-first-look

PAL versions and poor perfomance on top of a weak showing of games. Bag of Wank.

[Phil_A]

Running on PCSX? Really? It's a bit shocking they aren't even using their own emulator.

[Twed]

I think that making their own proprietary emulator would be a waste of time, and worse for society. This legitimises third-party emulation in at least Sony's view, promotes open-source software and conceivably they could contribute code (or money) back into the project.

[Malcy]

My brother got a SNES Mini and added a Sega emulator to it. Thing is rammed with games.

Was reading up on this and it seems that there's a bit of bad opinion on the PS Classic. Poor game choice and and apparently it looks shit on a modern telly.

[biggytitbo]

I don't know how they managed to mess this up so badly. Apparently the box and the console are a lovely thing, but the emulation, ui and options are dogshit.

[Phil_A]

I think that making their own proprietary emulator would be a waste of time, and worse for society. This legitimises third-party emulation in at least Sony's view, promotes open-source software and conceivably they could contribute code (or money) back into the project.

They have their own proprietary emulator, they've been running it on their consoles for years! The fact they already have the facility to do pretty accurate PS1 emulation and yet said "Ehh no, we won't use that" is what's so baffling.

[NoSleep]

The PCSX was used in the PS2, though, wasn't it?

[Phil_A]

The PCSX was used in the PS2, though, wasn't it?

Not to my knowledge, no? PS1 emulation was hardware based on original model PS2s, then shifted to software for the slim re-release. But I don't think they have ever used a pre-existing emulator. You can run it on a modded PS3 but I think that's it.

[biggytitbo]

They have their own proprietary emulator, they've been running it on their consoles for years! The fact they already have the facility to do pretty accurate PS1 emulation and yet said "Ehh no, we won't use that" is what's so baffling.

I presume the whole thing was outsourced to some dodgy Chinese firm or something?

[NoSleep]

Not to my knowledge, no? PS1 emulation was hardware based on original model PS2s, then shifted to software for the slim re-release. But I don't think they have ever used a pre-existing emulator. You can run it on a modded PS3 but I think that's it.

I always believed that Sony had brought the the guy who developed PCSX onboard for the PSX emulator in the PS2 and that it was based on the same. It also brought development of PCSX to a close, which was all in Sony's favour. I think all subsequent development of the emulator for computers was other parties picking up the thread from where the original developer ceased.

[biggytitbo]

I thought they hired the BLEEM! guy? Or is that the same thing?

[MojoJojo]

Sony bought Connectix Virtual Game Station a few months before the PS2 came out, and a lot of people assume that was used.

[NoSleep]

I always believed that Sony had brought the the guy who developed PCSX onboard for the PSX emulator in the PS2 and that it was based on the same. It also brought development of PCSX to a close, which was all in Sony's favour. I think all subsequent development of the emulator for computers was other parties picking up the thread from where the original developer ceased.

Just to add; the PS1 emulation in the PS2 was not perfect, with some games not functioning properly. I never came across that but did notice some graphics anomalies occasionally and that typefaces came out wrong in some games.

[NoSleep]

Sony bought Connectix Virtual Game Station a few months before the PS2 came out, and a lot of people assume that was used.

It may be this. I got told about this by word of mouth and they had muddled up the two. Nah it was me that got it confused; VGS was the first PSX emulator and came out first on the Mac; that was the one I was told about. I suppose it's possible that it was used by Sony after buying them out, but surely they wouldn't need to use reverse-engineered software to do the job?

[Phil_A]

Just to add; the PS1 emulation in the PS2 was not perfect, with some games not functioning properly. I never came across that but did notice some graphics anomalies occasionally and that typefaces came out wrong in some games.

Yeah that"s true enough, I wouldn't make any claims for it being flawless emulation. One example is the fog in Silent Hill which never seem to display correctly on anything other than the original system. Instead of fading away into the mist/darkness, the landscape just cuts off rather abruptly at the edge of the draw area. Completely ruins the effect.

[buzby]

Yeah that"s true enough, I wouldn't make any claims for it being flawless emulation. One example is the fog in Silent Hill which never seem to display correctly on anything other than the original system. Instead of fading away into the mist/darkness, the landscape just cuts off rather abruptly at the edge of the draw area. Completely ruins the effect.

The early PS2s used the PS1's combined MIPS R3000 CPU/Geometry Engine/Motion Decoder chip as an I/O processor when running PS2 software. When PS1 mode is entered this becomes the main processor and the PS2's Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer switch to emulating the PS1's GPU, with the graphics being output via the Graphics Synthesizer's framebuffer. That is where PS1 mode sometimes goes wrong, especially if the original programmers were exploiting undocumented GPU operations that weren't part of the official spec.

Early in the life of the Slim PS2 (SCPH-7500x onwards) there was a cost reduction programme that replaced the R3000/GTE/MDEC (which was made using an obsolete manufacturing process) with an IBM PowerPC PPC405GP- based I/O processor that ran the in-house developed  'Deckard' MIPS R3000/GTE/MDEC emulator (i.e these machines emulate both the PS1's CPU and GPU) This led to further PS1 software incompatibilities and also some PS2 software incompatibilities on titles that used specific R3000 commands. They did make some improvements to the emulation in further revisions of the Slim though.

Sony bought Connectix VGS in 2001 after losing the lawsuit they filed against them, but the PS2 had been on the market for a year by then. They forced Bleem! into bankruptcy through legal fees (although Sony lost that case as well).

Regarding the Playstation Classic, the use of the PCSX emulator would point towards the development of it being outsourced to a third party. In that case Sony might have preferred to let the developer licence PCSX rather than supply them with the source for their in-house emulator.

[MojoJojo]

Sony bought Connectix VGS in 2001 after losing the lawsuit they filed against them, but the PS2 had been on the market for a year by then. They forced Bleem! into bankruptcy through legal fees (although Sony lost that case as well).

Right you are - wikipedia and many other sources are all a bit wrong it seems. The original comment suggesting Sony used Connectix for the emulation seemed a bit flawed - the timelines weren't right and Sony wouldn't need to buy in an emulator for just a cpu. It took one of our assembler guys a long weekend for our chip.

[buzby]

Right you are - wikipedia and many other sources are all a bit wrong it seems. The original comment suggesting Sony used Connectix for the emulation seemed a bit flawed - the timelines weren't right and Sony wouldn't need to buy in an emulator for just a cpu. It took one of our assembler guys a long weekend for our chip.

They didn't need to emulate the PS1 CPU as the PS2 included it specifically for that purpose (the R3000 core would be twiddling it's thumbs handling I/O in PS2 mode - it's clock speed actually gets reduced to what it was on the PS1 when the system switches to PS1 mode).

I suspect writing the emulator for the PS1 GPU to run on the PS2's EE/GS took more than a long weekend though:)