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Louis Theroux's Altered States

Started by Ballad of Ballard Berkley, October 31, 2018, 07:58:32 PM

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Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Heads up! A new series consisting of three episodes begins on Sunday 4th November at 9pm on BBC Two. The subjects under review are...

Polyamory
Euthanasia
Open adoption


It is unlikely that Louis will launch into an a capella falsetto version of Yes Sir, I Can Boogie during any of these documentaries.

bgmnts

I fucking love me some Theroux but I do yearn for the old days of slightly tongue-in-cheek, light-hearted documentaries about odd subcultures.

Don't get wrong, I don't mind the eye-opening, suicide inducing heavy shit he does now but still if he could pepper in some laughs every now and again i'd like it.

billyandthecloneasaurus

I'd go as far as saying that his serious documentaries just aren't as good as the silly ones.  I feel like he's a wonderfully talented and intelligent and funny man, but...I dunno.  His shtick has always been less about offering analysis and opinion, more sorta relying on just asking questions and giving em enough rope etc, which I think works better with the ol' freakazoids doing funny weird stuff while he stands there with a wry smile, as opposed to like, I dunno, standing next to some meth addicts or nonces with a serious face as they talk about their life then his voice over saying oh no this is bad.

The weird weekends stuff is just brilliant and pretty timeless, but I feel like there's a lot of people (and not necessarily as cool and smart as Louis) better at making serious documentaries. It's like he tries to subdue his own personality in the more recent stuff so it doesn't interfere with his SERIOUS FILM-MAKING, when the former was always a bigger strength than the latter.  That's wot I reckon anyway, i'll still watch and somewhat enjoy these. 

New Jack

He'll never top the sheer gravitas, timeliness, and long-lasting eerie feel of the WCW Power Plant episode.


Mango Chimes

Quote from: billyandthecloneasaurus on October 31, 2018, 08:26:26 PMThe weird weekends stuff is just brilliant and pretty timeless, but I feel like there's a lot of people (and not necessarily as cool and smart as Louis) better at making serious documentaries. It's like he tries to subdue his own personality in the more recent stuff so it doesn't interfere with his SERIOUS FILM-MAKING, when the former was always a bigger strength than the latter.

Agree, his new stuff is decent and very watchable, but there are a fair few major flaws – whether it's Savile 2 completely skimming the institutional stuff, or that mad as fuck bit in the heroin one where he told a woman's abusive boyfriend that she said he'd hit her (has anyone asked him what the fuck he was thinking?) – and they often feel a bit like... I don't know. Heavy ephemera. A bit vague.

It's one of these things where someone's brilliant at something but evidently wants to do something a bit different, and whilst you like them and don't want to be all possessive, you do kind of wish they'd go back to doing the thing they were brilliant at.

Clownbaby

I also miss the more curious/tongue in cheek side of his other documentaries but ma boy Louis coming out with new stuff is always an event in my household

Bazooka

The Scientology film I couldn't even finish, but love everything else he's knocked out.

Clownbaby

I don't think Louis gets quite as far with the people he meets in his more recent documentaries because he's more likely now to stay on the serious detatched interviewer side. I mean he's always been an intelligent and perceptive interviewer but in his past docs the people he meets, no matter how guarded, ended up being coaxed out by his disarming manner. So you get white supremacists and guarded sex workers or whatever clearly finding him charming enough to just chat with, which is when a lot of their less filtered views slip out without them even noticing it til he starts probing. I'm still really looking forward to Altered States though


McFlymo

The latest Adam Buxton podcast, interviewing Louis is quite interesting. I think Adam hints at what's being discussed here: That his fun stuff is a lot easier and maybe more entertaining, and the heavy stuff can be hard work.

http://adam-buxton.co.uk/podcasts/ep81-louis-theroux

imitationleather

Quote from: Bazooka on November 01, 2018, 10:34:37 AM
The Scientology film I couldn't even finish, but love everything else he's knocked out.

The Scientology one appeared (I have no evidence to back this up, only going on my impression from watching it) to suffer from being cut to ribbons by lawyers, and also him being told to fuck off by almost every Scientologist he approached to appear on camera. The result is a very thin film, where basically nothing whatsoever happens. There was clearly supposed to be more of a Tom Cruise angle to it, hence the casting of a double who then does nowt, but for whatever reason this is never followed up in the film. It reminded me of the one he did where he tried to meet Michael Jackson, but just got told to get bent over and over again. A film that probably should have just been put down as a nice idea that didn't work out and aborted, but due to stuff like the money involved I suppose they had to put something out.

The second Savile documentary was a serious misfire, he's just not got the gravitas to front a documentary on that topic, and the recent load with the anorexia clinic and people addicted to drugs (yet again) sounded like it was veering so close to misery porn that they were the first run of Theroux docs I've not watched.

I saw Jon Ronson do a talk a while back. He appears to have a far bigger problem with Theroux and the suggestion that he may have hijacked his style than he tends to let on in interviews. It has to be said, the guy has a point. I wish Ronson would do more documentaries.

Bence Fekete

Jon Ronson is ostensibly biased, judgemental and infuriatingly passive aggressive.  His personality isn't remotely capable of breaking through some nutter's defensive onion quite like Louis can.  Can you see him spending a second in the cell of a Miami super jail?  Or press-ups until he vomits into a bucket?

There's only so many outre topics left on the planet I guess.  I would hope LT finds a new direction at some point but he's still reasonably peerless in spite of the occasional misstep.   


Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: billyandthecloneasaurus on October 31, 2018, 08:26:26 PM
His shtick has always been less about offering analysis and opinion, more sorta relying on just asking questions and giving em enough rope etc, which I think works better with the ol' freakazoids doing funny weird stuff while he stands there with a wry smile

Has he ever really done that, though? He was always impressively deadpan when dealing with the folk he encountered during the Weird Weekends era. His comments were often wry and quite cheeky, but his face was usually impassive (which helped to disguise the fact that he was subtly taking the piss at times).

One of my favourite moments from WW was during the Thai brides episode, when he 'broke character' and laughed in the face of that weird, angry ginger man who was freaking out before his wedding service. I think it's the one and only time in his career where you can clearly see him thinking, "Fucking hell, this is deranged!"

Replies From View

Quote from: McFlymo on November 01, 2018, 12:04:44 PM
The latest Adam Buxton podcast, interviewing Louis is quite interesting. I think Adam hints at what's being discussed here: That his fun stuff is a lot easier and maybe more entertaining, and the heavy stuff can be hard work.

http://adam-buxton.co.uk/podcasts/ep81-louis-theroux

Just for balance, Richard Herring told Theroux that he found his earlier stuff "pathetic".

Malcy

Been binging on Theroux documentaries on iPlayer the past few days. I seen a few of them when they were on but it was a long time ago. Comedy gold.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Malcy on November 04, 2018, 06:30:59 PM
Been binging on Theroux documentaries on iPlayer the past few days. I seen a few of them when they were on but it was a long time ago. Comedy gold.

You're watching his early, funny stuff, I take it? Pretty much every documentary he's made since 2003 has been drawn in various shades of bleak.

Malcy

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on November 04, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
You're watching his early, funny stuff, I take it? Pretty much every documentary he's made since 2003 has been drawn in various shades of bleak.

Yeah i always liked the weird weekends because of the humour. The latter stuff is fairly bleak but still good. I was going through them and seen the Ceder Sinai hospital one and instantly remembered it being a tough watch so skipped that one.

Really enjoyed Louis, Michael & Martin. Don't think I'd ever seen it from start to finish.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

I'm a big fan of his work in general, but yeah, some of his more serious documentaries make for difficult viewing. That's not a criticism, they're supposed to be bleak and unflinching, but I sometimes find myself more in the mood to watch Louis hanging out with some wrestlers, UFO-spotters or crazy Black Nationalists etc.

I don't remember much about Louis, Michael & Martin, apart from the fact that he never got to meet Jacko in the end. I'll have to watch it again, ta for the reminder.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

That, I thought, was a typically sensitive and perceptive documentary.

Louis, as always, was entirely non-judgmental, despite admitting, initially at least, that he couldn't quite get his head around the concept of polyamory. However, he seemed to develop a genuine understanding of why it works for some people, while expressing concern that it might be devastating for anyone who isn't emotionally equipped to deal with it.

People sometimes complain this his documentaries are inconclusive, but I don't think it's his job to turn up and deliver a definitive assessment of whether something is good or bad. He talks to people, gently encourages them to express themselves, and leaves us to ponder on the subject at hand. Imagine if that documentary had been hosted by a twat like Piers Morgan or Keith Allen.

I don't think his approach is faultless - he is sometimes guilty of turning up and basically saying, "Well this is thoroughly depressing and shit, isn't it? Bye." - but in episodes such as this, he manages to explore a subject that most people would consider unconventional while treating it with respect.

He's good, old Louis.

lankyguy95

Not one of the best, I thought. The arrangement with Joe and Heidi appeared as though it was entirely for them, with Jerry and Gretchen seemingly going along with it reluctantly. Heidi in particular came across pretty badly I thought - all the "I'm not responsible for anyone else's happiness", which is true in a way but actually came across as her distancing herself from any responsibility, in complete contrast to Jerry. Poor guy. The throuple (?) was just for the girl, given that both guys admitted they'd rather be in a monogamous relationship with her. The other group didn't seem to be of this planet. Certainly in all three cases there seemed to be very little 'compersion' going on.

The sensual eating party was shoehorned in so we had a 'Louis looks uncomfortable' segment.

Still, Louis is an ever-enjoyable presence and frequently shows a level of self-restraint that most can't. Including me, clearly. Also, Bob having it revealed to the world that he's shit at foreplay was hilarious.

phes

#21
Enjoyed that. Can understand how it was tempting for Louis to zone in on the fear of losing time, love, sex, even a whole relationship to a metamour, because of the whole compersion thing and the human desire often to put on brave face when conflicted. And of course on the conflict and endless compromises. But honestly, many monogamous relationships are absolutely riddled with all this , and ultimately almost none of those remain static and most cease to be. It kinda felt like through not acknowledging this he wanted all these to just be poly problems. When it's just permissive/embraced. Shame also he didn't explore any more solo/autonomous poly folk. I was worried it might be a little bit judgey and piss taking, having glanced at the reception on Twitter before watching, which was uniformly mysogynistic, sneery and fucking stupid, but it was quite sweet and I will never read about anything on Twitter again, ever.

Malcy

An hour of people lying to themselves. She had never considered a threesome. Ever? Really? I thought it was going to end with a bunch of break ups because Louis had asked some great questions that made some of them squirm a bit. You could see on their faces that them saying they were happy with the situations was so as not to upset their partners.

It's a strange world. Oh and they didn't give the baby a gender. What a surprise. Bob's face when the other guy said he was shite at foreplay was hilarious.

phes

#23
If you interviewed a bunch of 'happily married' people and dug away at how free and fulfilled they felt you'd expose exactly the same conflicts and processes designed to protect themselves and their partners from it. It's just same ballpark different game - compromises. I don't know why you think you can simplify what was already the merest glimpse into their lives to 'just people lying to thenselves'

Replies From View

I am disappointed that he didn't sing "what's the story in polyamory, wouldn't you like to know?" at any point.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: lankyguy95 on November 05, 2018, 12:07:39 AM
The sensual eating party was shoehorned in so we had a 'Louis looks uncomfortable' segment.

To be fair, he hasn't included a scene like that in any of his documentaries for, what, nearly 20 years? It did feel rather incongruous, though, given the serious nature of the programme as a whole.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: phes on November 05, 2018, 12:20:34 AM
If you interviewed a bunch of 'happily married' people and dug away at how free and fulfilled they felt you'd expose exactly the same conflicts and processes designed to protect themselves and their partners from it. It's just same ballpark different game - compromises. I don't know why you think you can simplify what was already the merest glimpse into their lives to 'just people lying to thenselves'

Exactly. That's what I took from the programme, and that's basically what Louis said at the end. We're all vulnerable, complex, fucked up people, but we find some sort of happiness wherever we can. It doesn't always work, but we give it a go.


phes

He definitely picked some conflicted groups where in each case they were either in the early stages of exploring what was OK for them, or had already worked it out, and for at least one person poly was either not necessary or was an acceptable compromise. There's plenty of people out there living without that but they wouldn't be suitable because they'd just be like yeah mate, it's alright, cigs?

Jerry is definitely getting all number of sympathy fucks after this airs. He really needs to have sex with another woman

yesitsme

For someone so free and easy with her sexual morals Hiedi (or was it Gretchen) was pretty off hand when Jerry said he'd be up for a threesome.

The way she dismissed it out of hand, as said above she'd 'never considered it' (my fucking arse) was pretty cruel, although I thought Jerry (and the other young lad) were as gay as get out.

The way Jerry said he wanted to find a 'woman' made me feel sad for him, especially as he trudged off up the stairs while his wife got bonked by this interloper.  I would have liked to have had more time with him to find out if he was actually happy with it all - although I'm sure he wasn't.

Shame.

None of these people seemed to be the full shilling or to have a good history with sex (who does?).  Don't know if their substituting sex for love or attention or whatever.

As said above, if Jerry's not up to his neck in fanny and/or cock right now he never will be.

Clownbaby

#29
I got a very unpleasant vibe from Heidi and Jerry is obviously not a happy man. Christ it's so obvious he's not happy. In each poly family he met there seemed to be an even split of people who were totally at ease with the whole thing and people who obviously weren't.