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Does Autotune Have Any Artistic Merit?

Started by Camp Tramp, November 01, 2018, 07:12:00 PM

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Camp Tramp

We all heard how it was used to hide the lack of ability that Posh Spice has. Cher also used Autotune to bad effect. Can it be used effectively though.

I recently heard a song by Stefflon Don. I make no bones about it, the song was shit. However she used the Autotune brazenly, her voice was robotic, so much so that as far as I was concerned, she must have been using it for artistic effect?

Has anyone ever made it sound good?

Twit 2


Clownbaby



Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Polica manage to make decent use of the wobbly robot voice effect. https://youtu.be/8oQ5VEuHufI
Radiohead had a load of computerised sounding vocals on Kid A and Amnesiac. Was any of that done with Autotune?
Aside from those more obvious examples, it's probably been used on thousands of tunes over the past 20-odd years without anyone noticing. A good chunk of those are probably tunes that everyone likes. So... maybe.

PlanktonSideburns

Some great African and Indian tunes make rude and great use of auto tune, some nice 3xamples on those songs from Sahara cellphones compilations

Brundle-Fly


Kanye West uses autotune really beautifully in the second half of the long version of 'Runaway': https://youtu.be/SqrQ1wcI-bk?t=347

lankyguy95

Quote from: Twit 2 on November 01, 2018, 07:17:09 PM
Bon Iver.
My first thought.

Yeah it can occasionally but it's rarely used well.

buzby

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on November 01, 2018, 10:12:44 PM
Radiohead had a load of computerised sounding vocals on Kid A and Amnesiac. Was any of that done with Autotune?
On Kid A Thom's vocals were fed into Johnny Greenwood's Ondes Martenot, using it as a vocoder (when they do it live they use an Electroharmonix Iron Lung vocoder). They first used Antares Autotune on Amnesiac.

I don't mind autotune when it's used creatively and sparingly, but when it's the main focus of a track it just gets on my nerves, more than using a vocoder ever has. In some genres it's basically become a prerequisite too - it doesn't matter if you can actually sing or rap, you still have to put your vocals through it to fit in.

The way it's become a standard part of the recording process in pop production is pretty depressing too - the same 'we'll fix it in post' mentality that pervades the film industry's use of CGI, to make up for rushed or sloppy recording. It goes hand in hand with the overuse of compression/brickwalling, and makes listening to a lot of Top 40 stuff a bit of a chore for me.

popcorn

It's been used in interesting ways by alternative and electronic acts for ages now, hasn't it? Radiohead used it for a few lines on Packt Like Sardines to make Thom Yorke sound like a weird robot man and that was back in 2001. They also used it on Pulk/Pull while Thom Yorke just read lyrics without singing, and the program went mental trying to spin it into a melody. Both on Amnesiac.

edit:

Quote from: buzby on November 02, 2018, 08:32:44 AM
On Kid A Thom's vocals were fed into Johnny Greenwood's Ondes Martenot, using it as a vocoder (when they do it live they use an Electroharmonix Iron Lung vocoder). They first used Antares Autotune on Amnesiac.

As ever, buzby is on the money.

Quote from: Camp Tramp on November 01, 2018, 07:12:00 PM
Cher also used Autotune to bad effect.

Did she? The song isn't my cup of tea but I think the use of Autotune on Believe was a stroke of genius. It was a striking new sound, and it wasn't deceptive - the digital artefacts are obviously artificial, that's the point.

SteveDave


New Jack

Yeah I like it. When I sing I pound my chest with my balled hand to make my voice quiver in a broken way. Good effect, cheap too

NoSleep

It works better if you just tap your larynx with the edge of your hand.

Bazooka

There are plenty of experimental bands that use it effectively but they tinker with the sound to create mood, if its straight up vanilla autotune for an entire album then no its terrible.

a duncandisorderly


NoSleep

I don't like where bands like Green Day, who would actually sound a bit better if the tuning of the vocals wasn't absolutely perfect, use it "subtly" (rather than turn it up to 11 like is being described mostly in this thread). It is a tool that can be used in such a way as you might not notice but it does something to the overall sound of the vocals, if tweaked just a little too far, that is just a little too perfect.

Quote from: PlanktonSideburns on November 01, 2018, 10:19:31 PM
Some great African and Indian tunes make rude and great use of auto tune, some nice 3xamples on those songs from Sahara cellphones compilations

Unfortunately it appears that autotune only comes in the one flavour that is to tune all music to standard western tuning, which is OK on standard western music, but North African and Indian music have a whole bunch of notes that autotune cannot reach. The spread of MIDI instruments over traditionally tuned instruments and the use of autotune are standardising music all over the globe, sadly.


Z

I'm very pro auto tune. Anything which helps reduce the barriers for creative individuals to actually get their ideas executed seems like a net positive to me. I can only imagine countless people were blocked from doing so by having shite voices and either having to work around that or have the added complexity on a project of dealing with another individual.



bgmnts

It sounds awful.

Is genuinely anything of the past 20 years actually worthy? Lyrically or artistically?

Anything we'll be quoting as a piece of poetry or saying yes ghat piece of music was genius? Did we peak ages ago and everything since is hust noise?

Help a brother out.

Rizla

Quote from: popcorn on November 02, 2018, 08:33:35 AM


Did she? The song isn't my cup of tea but I think the use of Autotune on Believe was a stroke of genius. It was a striking new sound, and it wasn't deceptive - the digital artefacts are obviously artificial, that's the point.

So striking and new in fact, that the producers initially claimed they got the effect using a vocoder and a pitch-shifter, because auto-tune was sort of a dirty little industry secret back then. Good article here https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/recording-cher-believe

BlodwynPig

Quote from: PlanktonSideburns on November 01, 2018, 10:19:31 PM
Some great African and Indian tunes make rude and great use of auto tune, some nice 3xamples on those songs from Sahara cellphones compilations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJa2kwoZ2a4

When The Charlatans used it on "My Foolish Pride", a small part of me died.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7I6ytUjKGw

gilbertharding

Quote from: popcorn on November 02, 2018, 08:33:35 AM
Did she? The song isn't my cup of tea but I think the use of Autotune on Believe was a stroke of genius. It was a striking new sound, and it wasn't deceptive - the digital artefacts are obviously artificial, that's the point.

Basically what I came here to say. It sounds hacky now, perhaps, but it was a Hot New Sound at the time (well, perhaps it had been done before, but not by anyone with the profile of the Gypsies Tramps and Thieves hitmaker).

Neomod

Quote from: Z on November 02, 2018, 11:03:49 AM
I'm very pro auto tune. Anything which helps reduce the barriers for creative individuals to actually get their ideas executed seems like a net positive to me. I can only imagine countless people were blocked from doing so by having shite voices and either having to work around that or have the added complexity on a project of dealing with another individual.

It doesn't stop the truly great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bhcmFW5br0

purlieu

Its overuse in pop bugs me a lot, particularly when it seems to be used purely for the sake of it. I think it was an Ariana Grande album I listened to that just bugged me, because she's technically a good singer, but it was used on various tracks without ever being pushed to sound weird either. Properly What Is Point territory.

Gotye's 'State of the Art' is a really fun use of it, I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWIKQMBBTtk

On the whole, though, I tend to prefer vocoded vocals rather than autotuned ones.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: buzby on November 02, 2018, 08:32:44 AM
The way it's become a standard part of the recording process in pop production is pretty depressing too - the same 'we'll fix it in post' mentality that pervades the film industry's use of CGI, to make up for rushed or sloppy recording. It goes hand in hand with the overuse of compression/brickwalling, and makes listening to a lot of Top 40 stuff a bit of a chore for me.

Pop's been dishonest forever though hasn't it? Before Autotune or less sophisticated pitch correction they just overdubbed with session musicians at night.

As for creative use of Vocoders, rather than autotune, I'm a big fan of Imogen Heap's Hide and Seek.

Absorb the anus burn

Weird....

I open this thread as I play "I Pity Inanimate Objects" by Godley and Creme - a song that feels like the step-father of Autotune.

Clownbaby

What I want to know is if there is a song which improved by the air horn

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: Clownbaby on November 03, 2018, 09:33:29 AM
What I want to know is if there is a song which improved by the air horn

This feels more apt for the current cinematic climate
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s-l2Iq13lPA

Clownbaby