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Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long

Started by pigamus, November 02, 2018, 09:47:03 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Jockice

Quote from: Twed on January 07, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
I wonder what spurred the imbecile Rachel Riley to suddenly become an important voice on Israel

I'm quite proud to say I've NEVER seen this woman on TV. In fact I've never seen a full episode of Countdown in my life and the last time I saw any part of it was in the 90s when my dad used to watch it. Cos he fancied Vorderman.

So I'm a bit puzzed as to why anything she says is considered important. Is she considered a political genius or something?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

White
Middle class
Notionally intelligent (mental maths everyone)
On telly
But even more than that: Fit eh lads

Her opinion is unimportant save for demonstrating the type of ghastly company she evidently keeps.

Jockice

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 08, 2019, 07:25:43 AM
White
Middle class
Notionally intelligent (mental maths everyone)
On telly
But even more than that: Fit eh lads

Her opinion is unimportant save for demonstrating the type of ghastly company she evidently keeps.

I wouldn't recognise her if I woke up next to her. Which admittedly is a highly-unlikely scenario.

Replies From View

Has she been on Would I Lie To You before?  She has the face of the kind of person who has.

phantom_power

Quote from: Twed on January 08, 2019, 12:06:11 AM
(see how that works?)

Or alternatively, imagine if we singled out all of the creepy TFMs and used it to claim that all centrists were sex offenders. You know? It doesn't work this way. It's petty and wrong. All groups are full of examples of bad eggs and singling them out doesn't prove anything, especially when misrepresentation is possible. The idea that finding some rum posts on affiliated groups means there's a mandate from the leadership to encourage that behaviour is plain stupid.

It amazes me that all these centrist twats on Twitter don't realise that they are doing the work of the tories and the media when they go on about Corbyn and anti-semitism and anti-europe and disaster socialism and him being a Leninist Trotskyite Commie Russia lover. It is like they are deliberately sabotaging the thing they purport to want. With all their talk of him forcing his ideas on the party it is almost as if they don't know how the Labour party works

Paul Calf

Or, they'd rather have a Tory government and soft-ish Brexit than a Labour government under any circumstances?

jobotic

One of the remainer centrist councillors here has started referring to anyone left of Blair as "alt-left". I respectfully (I have to be as he indirectly employs me) pointed out how offensive I find that term, despite agreeing with him on Brexit, and got patronisingly dismissed.

Mind you he does use Marxist as an insult.

Paul Calf

Does he think it's the 'alt' part of alt-right that people have a problem with?

phantom_power

Quote from: Paul Calf on January 08, 2019, 08:24:59 AM
Or, they'd rather have a Tory government and soft-ish Brexit than a Labour government under any circumstances?

Yes, that is why I used the word "purport". They claim to be "life long labour supporters" but are really just Blairites who don't seem to understand what Labour traditionally stands for

Quote from: manticore on January 07, 2019, 11:57:16 PM
Had a look -

Twitter, 17th December:

Susie Dent:

Always got the impression that Susie Dent's probably a nice sensible liberal sort of person, I'm sure food banks are a horrible thing to her. The thing was, I have seen Rachel Riley get some obnoxious crap thrown at her, it being twitter and and everything, before she'd gone with the 'Chomski' thing. (She is Jewish btw in case anyone didn't know.) She said at one point that she knows very little about Israel/Palestine, and she has no obligation to. But obviously she's a comfortable rich oxbridge 'apolitical' celebrity liberal.

The Labour/left antisemitism debate has been appallingly handled by both sides, and they just reinforce each other's stupidity. A lot of it is 'social media' at its worst.

I did talk to Marlon Solomon, asking him where to look for Labour facebook anti-semitism, and he pointed me to three Labour/Corbyn facebook pages. He's right, there's a lot of borderline and some outright anti-semitism going on there, and a couple of outright conspiracy nuts.

I don't know what to make of it, I'm hoping they're mostly fringe people who've collected in a few places.

I think the point is you could find similar discussions/comments on any political forums. It isn't, nor has it ever been, a 'Labour' problem.

Replies From View

Quote from: Paul Calf on January 08, 2019, 08:44:23 AM
Does he think it's the 'alt' part of alt-right that people have a problem with?

Yes there are splinter control and delete groups that go down fine on the trail.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: phantom_power on January 08, 2019, 09:19:14 AM
Yes, that is why I used the word "purport". They claim to be "life long labour supporters" but are really just Blairites who don't seem to understand what Labour traditionally stands for

...or don't agree with anything that isn't the status quo or minor tinkering with it.

Buelligan

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 08, 2019, 07:25:43 AM
White
Middle class
Notionally intelligent (mental maths everyone)
On telly
But even more than that: Fit eh lads

Her opinion is unimportant save for demonstrating the type of ghastly company she evidently keeps.

Luckily, in a decade or so, no one, not even heterosexual men, will give a fuck about what she thinks.

phantom_power

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 08, 2019, 01:23:41 PM
...or don't agree with anything that isn't the status quo or minor tinkering with it.

Which again is not really what Labour, the party they pretend to have supported all their lives, is about

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Buelligan on January 08, 2019, 01:54:14 PM
Luckily, in a decade or so, no one, not even heterosexual men, will give a fuck about what she thinks.

Presuming you're talking about Theresa May, then yes - quite rightly too.

Buelligan


NoSleep

Shoulders seems to be implying she is just the hapless victim of the company she keeps but the tweet tells us she is one of them.

biggytitbo

Riley's views and attitudes are very typical of a whole celebrity and media class who are very active on social media, she's not some rare simpleton, you could swap whole mad posts of hers with actual clever and knowledgeable people like Armando Iannucci and Tony Robinson you'd hardly be able to tell the difference.


The thing that astonishes me is there are so many EU supporters who can't see these metropolitan status quo guardians represent the exact same political forces and tactics as the remain campaign and its legacy the people's vote. If we crumble in the face of the latter, as it seems we will, and allow them to get their way, we haven't got a chance when they marshall this machine they have built against even the most modest semi radical proposal of a Corbyn government.


I'm quite sure these people are genuine when they say they want a better world for everyone, but they want it in a way where literally nothing actually changes - especially for themselves.

manticore

Quote from: Twed on January 08, 2019, 12:06:11 AM
(see how that works?)

Or alternatively, imagine if we singled out all of the creepy TFMs and used it to claim that all centrists were sex offenders. You know? It doesn't work this way. It's petty and wrong. All groups are full of examples of bad eggs and singling them out doesn't prove anything, especially when misrepresentation is possible. The idea that finding some rum posts on affiliated groups means there's a mandate from the leadership to encourage that behaviour is plain stupid.

I said:

Quote from: manticore on January 07, 2019, 11:57:16 PM
I don't know what to make of it, I'm hoping they're mostly fringe people who've collected in a few places.

Your reflexive reaction to me talking about the fact that there is a strain of anti-semitism in Labour Party forums and assuming that I'm saying that that 'means there's a mandate from the leadership to encourage that behaviour' is a prime example of how

Quote from: manticore on January 07, 2019, 11:57:16 PM
The Labour/left antisemitism debate has been appallingly handled by both sides, and they just reinforce each other's stupidity.

Jeremy Corbyn isn't an anti-semite.

The kinds of posts I'm talking about can be quite virulent and are rarely challenged, and they're on pages full of Labour Party supporters which have anti-zionism as a very regular theme. It is quite possible that facebook attracts the most fringe elements, as it's an awful format for political discussion. I honestly don't know. But I think it's something that should have been confronted much more than it has been, and a couple of recent Momentum videos have done that, which I'm glad of.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: NoSleep on January 08, 2019, 03:47:27 PM
Shoulders seems to be implying she is just the hapless victim of the company she keeps but the tweet tells us she is one of them.

Nothing that subtle, just an opportunistic aside about how May will hopefully be irrelevant in that timeframe.

Replies From View

Quote from: NoSleep on January 08, 2019, 03:47:27 PM
Shoulders seems to be implying she is just the hapless victim of the company she keeps but the tweet tells us she is one of them.

SHE IS THE COMPANY SHE KEEPS

manticore

In case anyone's interested, this is one of the threads Riley did, turned into a web page.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1081984850150731776.html

She does some transparent distortion and exaggeration, especially when she says -

QuoteWithout foundation they've blamed Antisemitism campaigner @GnasherJew, Mossad, Hasbara (read Israeli) trolls, Tories, Blairites, baby murderers, vermin and a wide range of genocidal "British" Jews.
Many flying the Corbyn flags of 🇵🇸🌹 #GTTO.

which is simply not supported by the examples she gives.

The Chomsky/Faurisson affair is such a tangled mess that I've never been get clear exactly what happened and would take a whole other thread to discuss, but the article she quotes seems pretty dubious to me.

She's seems to be an uninteresting twerp by the looks of it, but naturally the sensible liberal middle of the road have been citing her brave stand etc. all over the place, and celebrity idiot friends like Stephen Fry and Nick Hewer.

phantom_power

You're sort of bullet proof when you make these claims as well, certainly in the eyes of the #FBPE lot. Any questioning or dissent is called out as anti-semitism or apologism. Any attempt to point out the fact that Labour are nowhere near as bad as the other parties in this regard or that arseholes on Twitter aren't an accurate representation of a political party or its leader is seen as diminishing the problem or making excuses. The only real way to battle it is to ignore them and hope they get distracted by some piece of Brexit news

Shoulders?-Stomach!

PMQS then?

Only read the exchanges but they felt a bit like May knows she is still fucked unless she is able to pull some rabbit out of the hat. Nothing new since before Christmas.

The Corbquestions seemed solid, but the real ammunition today has been the no confidence vote warnings which immediately put the government back under threat.

The Grieve thing as well, that could end up quietly fucking the government.

phantom_power

Is it at all possible that May, a remainer before the referendum let's remember, is just trying to give the country two terrible choices so that it makes it easier to back out of the whole thing with a "we tried"? I am not sure that was the initial aim but as the impossibility of the task of a Brexit that would please anyone, let alone everyone, became more obvious it seemed like the only way to go

pancreas

I certainly wouldn't credit her with that foresight. Her mindset is extremely limited: as shown time and time again in her role as Home Sec and afterwards, the only thing she 'gets' is sending the buggers back. So she came back with a deal which ended FoM and she thinks that's a roaring win. So no.

NoSleep

^^ I think it's a possibility that the government is trying to screw up Brexit to the point where we just can't leave.

biggytitbo

Quote from: NoSleep on January 09, 2019, 01:09:00 PM
^^ I think it's a possibility that the government is trying to screw up Brexit to the point where we just can't leave.


When the whole thing is largely stewarded by politicians and officials who desperately, desperately want to reverse the referendum and stay with all their heart, it's a fait accompli, whether the incompetence is malicious or not.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

May is incredibly rigid and has no working majority - the government have embarrassed and humiliated themselves over the last two months so I'd be surprised if it was all strategy to abandon Brexit and make what's left of their core voters explode in fury.

This is a doomed ship's captain refusing to change course despite being directed to steer into an iceberg. Solemn duty.

jobotic

Isn't it odd how those who demand the sovereignty of parliament are so angry when they are given it?