Author Topic: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long  (Read 111399 times)

NoSleep

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1080 on: January 09, 2019, 02:35:58 PM »
May is incredibly rigid and has no working majority

...holding onto power by her fingertips, thanks to the DUP, who I would think are very much against Brexit for domestic reasons.

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the government have embarrassed and humiliated themselves over the last two months so I'd be surprised if it was all strategy to abandon Brexit and make what's left of their core voters explode in fury.

Which is why May is still leader of this confusing shit show; it will be all blamed on her and the Tories will move on with a new leader.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1081 on: January 09, 2019, 03:39:49 PM »
Isn't it odd how those who demand the sovereignty of parliament are so angry when they are given it?

It all boils down to a substantial portion of both Leavers and Remainers being unsatisfied by anything except Absolutely Everything they want, and a compromise being highly undesirable by those groups as well as everyone else due to the nature of the subject.

What's happening is a perfect reflection of a divided 52/48 Britain then demanding a divided hung parliament who then have to try and work out what the fuck the public wants.

Loads of people claiming things with no basis to. Like claiming people voted to leave a customs union or claiming "nobody voted to be poorer" - both untrue.

The only sensible way forward is to call an election and campaign for a majority. If May had any guts she would do so. Might even win a majority next time. If there's any justice they will punish the Tories for 2 lost years and an astonishingly bad domestic record.

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1082 on: January 09, 2019, 03:54:16 PM »
May is incredibly rigid and has no working majority - the government have embarrassed and humiliated themselves over the last two months so I'd be surprised if it was all strategy to abandon Brexit and make what's left of their core voters explode in fury.

This is a doomed ship's captain refusing to change course despite being directed to steer into an iceberg. Solemn duty.


Not that I'm defending her, but there was no way through in the circumstances without crashing, whoever it was, whatever the flavour of brexit. Despite repeatedly voting to the contrary, when it came to it parliament didn't want to leave and so they're going to overrule the voters.

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1083 on: January 09, 2019, 04:03:56 PM »
Isn't it odd how those who demand the sovereignty of parliament are so angry when they are given it?

It's more breaking the promises they have with the public that's the problem - parliamentary authority is ultimately bound up in retaining the confidence of the public after all.

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Sir Keir does not think leaving on 29 March without a deal is possible, and says it "may well be inevitable" that Article 50 is extended because of "the situation we are now in".

Why would they agree to that?

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1084 on: January 09, 2019, 04:08:45 PM »
It's more breaking the promises they have with the public that's the problem - parliamentary authority is ultimately bound up in retaining the confidence of the public after all.


Then they will pay for that in the next election. Isn't how you keep telling us we can effect change?

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1085 on: January 09, 2019, 04:12:05 PM »

Not that I'm defending her, but there was no way through in the circumstances without crashing

Well, there was wasn't there. Not prematurely ejaculating Article 50 and actually working out what to do and how to do it without setting a ticking clock going would have been a good start. I agree that it would be very difficult to please everybody, even everybody who voted to leave given the disparate set of reasons and motives. That being said though they have still managed to fuck a massive hole in the whole thing

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1086 on: January 09, 2019, 04:47:14 PM »
Then they will pay for that in the next election. Isn't how you keep telling us we can effect change?


And why would people vote if they know they'll just get ignored?

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1087 on: January 09, 2019, 05:00:36 PM »
Well, there was wasn't there. Not prematurely ejaculating Article 50 and actually working out what to do and how to do it without setting a ticking clock going would have been a good start. I agree that it would be very difficult to please everybody, even everybody who voted to leave given the disparate set of reasons and motives. That being said though they have still managed to fuck a massive hole in the whole thing

The triggering of article 50 was a symptom of the more fundamental problem, a deeply divided parliament trying to steward something our political classes bitterly oppose, and unsurprisingly falling. It lays bare a profound division between them and the country more than anything. As that article I posted earlier puts it

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There will only be a cosmopolitan, Remainer political class that has isolated itself from the mass of the population, and will need to rule by containing the permanent threat from the excluded nation below.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1088 on: January 09, 2019, 05:12:02 PM »
Are you reading novels about The Good Brexiter now?

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1089 on: January 09, 2019, 05:20:14 PM »
So Stephen fry is supporting Rachel Rileys antisemitism gibe about Noam Chomsky...what the fuck is going on, he must know better.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1090 on: January 09, 2019, 05:21:14 PM »
The triggering of article 50 was a symptom of the more fundamental problem, a deeply divided parliament trying to steward something our political classes bitterly oppose, and unsurprisingly falling. It lays bare a profound division between them and the country more than anything. As that article I posted earlier puts it

If anyone still thought biggy was going to do anything other than retreat to ideological base camp when challenged on the details of this, can you please read this and realise that isn't happening. Brick wall, guys.

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1091 on: January 09, 2019, 05:29:59 PM »
Politicians massively out of touch with their own voters is my base camp son.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1092 on: January 09, 2019, 05:32:29 PM »
Politicians massively out of touch with their own voters is my base camp son.

Challenge 1 - deals with
Challenge 2 - concedes ground
Challenge 3 - retreats to base camp, trots out wider ideological argument that kinda renders the point of responding to the detail pointless

That sort of dynamic.

People know what you think. You know that but don't care, so that's a bit weird.

pancreas

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1093 on: January 09, 2019, 05:35:05 PM »
Maybe it's like treading water. The only way he can keep his hopeless conspiracy theorising afloat is if he continually repeats it. Doesn't have to be true, just needs to create enough of a vortex to prop himself up. If he actually stopped pedalling and listened, then he'd drown.

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1094 on: January 09, 2019, 05:58:37 PM »

People know what you think. You know that but don't care, so that's a bit weird.

The political class also know what we think. They know but don't care. So that's weird.

And I'm not going to stop pointing it out any time soon so you better put me on ignore.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1095 on: January 09, 2019, 09:51:06 PM »
The triggering of article 50 was a symptom of the more fundamental problem, a deeply divided parliament trying to steward something our political classes bitterly oppose, and unsurprisingly falling.

This doesn’t make much sense to me.  Are you saying the timing of triggering article 50 was t an issue in itself?  Surely it was?

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1096 on: January 09, 2019, 09:54:41 PM »
Also the fact that Corbyn gleefully went along with it and whipped his own party to go along with it surely compounded the fuck up.

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1097 on: January 09, 2019, 09:57:12 PM »
Was he dancing and rubbing his thighs?

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1098 on: January 09, 2019, 10:03:40 PM »
Stop breathing heavily please caller.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1099 on: January 10, 2019, 08:12:25 AM »
The political class also know what we think. They know but don't care. So that's weird.

And I'm not going to stop pointing it out any time soon so you better put me on ignore.

I know that. I'm encouraging others not to respond to your posts on the subject so in the end it will just be a bald constipated man screaming into a void.

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1100 on: January 10, 2019, 09:03:01 AM »
We are all screaming into the void my balding chum, but at least some of us have the good sense to do so from the position that 'Sir' Keir Starmer is absolutely full of shit.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1101 on: January 10, 2019, 09:18:08 AM »
^^
^
Fight on Briggate. I'll bring sandwiches.

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1102 on: January 10, 2019, 09:39:20 AM »
Could I just mention I have a full head of long luxuriant hair.  Thair.

Cuellar

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1103 on: January 10, 2019, 09:41:55 AM »
I have the hairline of a twenty year old*

And a lifetime ban from my local barbers

*but not the guy who was in school with me and was practically bald by about 15

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1104 on: January 10, 2019, 03:29:29 PM »


If the government win the no-confidence vote then what is their actual plan?

Their MPs want to continue remaining in power but can't even agree among themselves how to fucking govern?

The DUP and the ERG need a fucking slap if they support the government after it loses on Tuesday, especially if the defeat is resounding.

pancreas

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1105 on: January 10, 2019, 03:59:57 PM »
The ERG want to push it to No Deal. Please slap them, but of course they'll vote for the govt.

DUP *might* be tempted. But they're quite keen on No Deal too. Allows them the possibility to Build A Wall.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1106 on: January 10, 2019, 04:05:36 PM »
The ERG want to push it to No Deal. Please slap them, but of course they'll vote for the govt.

DUP *might* be tempted. But they're quite keen on No Deal too. Allows them the possibility to Build A Wall.

And Labour don't want No Deal per se but they certainly wouldn't mind

A) if its a disaster and Tories are blamed (and they will be, the public always blame whoevers holding the parcel when the music stops playing)
B) moving onto post-Brexit issues vs a lame duck PM

pancreas

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1107 on: January 10, 2019, 04:10:31 PM »
I think they would mind. Firstly, I don't know how well this is going to get pinned on the Tories, given the state of our media. I think there would be a lot of 'not looking good for Corbyn'. Secondly, Labour want to be in power at some point, and it would rather help matters if they didn't have to deal with a panicked flight of manufacturing companies to the continent. Plus chlorinated chicken … the lot.

That stuff outweighs quite significantly any political benefit they might enjoy.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1108 on: January 10, 2019, 04:28:47 PM »
Secondly, Labour want to be in power at some point, and it would rather help matters if they didn't have to deal with a panicked flight of manufacturing companies to the continent.

Vaguely connected - it is interesting that the general thrust of foreign-direct investment into the UK wasn't been massively dis-railed in 2017.

I say 'general thrust' because the impact that massive mergers and acquisitions can have is hard to unpick, and these take years to plan. It's possible that these are being called off and I'm just ignorant of it. Nevertheless, European and American companies are continuing to put cash into the UK, including in manufacturing, without any sign of a massive drop. (Exchange rate does mean it's a bit cheaper for them to do so, but still.)

I wonder exactly what the assumptions are enabling that. No real Brexit? Or that whatever Government oversees the aftermath will make it up to Capital over the longer term.

pancreas

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1109 on: January 10, 2019, 04:40:27 PM »
I think the govt gives 'assurances'. Which means promises of subsidies?

Nick Brown was saying that some sectors of investment had dropped by 90% because (he assumes) of Brexit uncertainty. I don't know where these figures came from.