Author Topic: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long  (Read 119611 times)

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1170 on: January 13, 2019, 03:31:34 PM »
Of course they is also a possibility a GE could pass with Labour promising to not put up candidates in seats of those that voted against the government.  Would dabbling with the dark arts but a possibility.

There are so many permutations of how this could go.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1171 on: January 13, 2019, 04:06:33 PM »
Of course they is also a possibility a GE could pass with Labour promising to not put up candidates in seats of those that voted against the government.  Would dabbling with the dark arts but a possibility.

There are so many permutations of how this could go.

Interesting thought, but practically how many seata would that buy us?

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1172 on: January 13, 2019, 04:17:18 PM »
I don't think Corbyn will run a general election campaign like that.  In the last election Labour had the option of not putting candidates where Green could win against the Tories, and they didn't want such a pact; if you want Labour then vote for Labour.  I absolutely can't see them doing anything like it with the Tories, not least because any agreement with a Tory can never be trusted (see for example the "pairing" agreements often broken).

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1173 on: January 13, 2019, 04:18:17 PM »
Are you able to sign contracts for deals like that?  Seems like it would be pretty easy to renege upon otherwise.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1174 on: January 13, 2019, 04:18:30 PM »
I'm not sure it would just protect MPs willing to defect.  Big risks in this and i don't think it is likely.  It would only really work on a unity government stance or an out and out remain stance

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1175 on: January 13, 2019, 04:19:32 PM »
Are you able to sign contracts for deals like that?  Seems like it would be pretty easy to renege upon otherwise.

Well it would be the Tories that would have to trust Labour in this case.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1176 on: January 13, 2019, 04:21:11 PM »
Are you able to sign contracts for deals like that?  Seems like it would be pretty easy to renege upon otherwise.

To say nothing of Labour party members in those constituencies being massively let down by not being able to vote for their party, even if it is 'for the greater good'.

Sin Agog

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1177 on: January 13, 2019, 04:22:41 PM »
Well it would be the Tories that would have to trust Labour in this case.

I imagine headlines like "Fibbing Labour Used Us" would only endear Labour to the waverers.

greencalx

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1178 on: January 13, 2019, 04:40:32 PM »
Hmmm. I’d be a bit surprised if something like this happened - part of Corbyn’s image, inasmuch as he has one, is playing a fair fight. On the other hand, some Tories (Soubry springs to mind) are sitting on tiny majorities and one suspects could be bought off. But then it might be easier just to keep your nose clean and campaign for the extra votes.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1179 on: January 13, 2019, 04:59:12 PM »
I don't think Corbyn will run a general election campaign like that. 

Absolutely agree.  Corbyn's intelligent, I think he's very able to think strategically but he has integrity top to bottom.  I don't think he'd ever even consider a course of action like that and I'd think greatly the worse of him if he did.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1180 on: January 13, 2019, 05:12:26 PM »
Hmmm. I’d be a bit surprised if something like this happened - part of Corbyn’s image, inasmuch as he has one, is playing a fair fight. On the other hand, some Tories (Soubry springs to mind) are sitting on tiny majorities and one suspects could be bought off. But then it might be easier just to keep your nose clean and campaign for the extra votes.

If that's the case, Momentum didn't get the memo: https://peoplesmomentum.com/2018/01/12/unseat-2/

However, if I understand the situation correctly, Labour don't try too hard against Caroline Lucas as everyone is terrified of splitting the vote and letting the tories in. Plus everyone thinks she is a good egg with decent left wing views, so why wreck things?

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1181 on: January 13, 2019, 05:25:05 PM »
Just to say i am neither advocating or thinking this is likely just throwing it out there as a possible way in which Tories might vote against their own party.

Another scenario that is more likely is ERG members voting for the deal in the hope that a bad deal is a step towards a no deal

Sin Agog

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1182 on: January 13, 2019, 05:27:58 PM »
This all seems far too elaborate.  Just offer them a guaranteed seat on Jeffrey Epstein's plane and we'll have a socialist government in power for at least a decade.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1183 on: January 13, 2019, 05:46:59 PM »
It would appear to be too difficult to broker such a deal; it wouldn't be with the Tory party, just individual Tory MPs, who may not even be the ones standing for election in those seats.
Corbyn wouldn't have such a deal, on principle, in the first place; there has to be the opportunity to vote for Labour and against the Tories in every constituency in the UK.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1184 on: January 13, 2019, 05:51:55 PM »
The best thing for them to do would be to cross the floor. Although I can't see Corbyn welcoming neoliberal scum-pots with open arms.

greencalx

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1185 on: January 13, 2019, 06:11:21 PM »
If that's the case, Momentum didn't get the memo: https://peoplesmomentum.com/2018/01/12/unseat-2/

I think this is consistent with what I was saying (i.e., that an “above board” fight, including hard campaigning in marginals to get the vote out). But it’s hard to tell, as I’m not always sure what I’m thinking myself...

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1186 on: January 13, 2019, 06:25:33 PM »
I think this is consistent with what I was saying (i.e., that an “above board” fight, including hard campaigning in marginals to get the vote out). But it’s hard to tell, as I’m not always sure what I’m thinking myself...

Yes, I should have edited harder, as I was specifically responding to this bit:

Quote
On the other hand, some Tories (Soubry springs to mind) are sitting on tiny majorities and one suspects could be bought off.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1187 on: January 13, 2019, 06:55:23 PM »
If that's the case, Momentum didn't get the memo: https://peoplesmomentum.com/2018/01/12/unseat-2/

However, if I understand the situation correctly, Labour don't try too hard against Caroline Lucas as everyone is terrified of splitting the vote and letting the tories in. Plus everyone thinks she is a good egg with decent left wing views, so why wreck things?

Even from a democratic perspective that one green voice is massive for democracy and the Green party versus say UKIP where their defector MP just sounded identical to 40 ERG members.

Labour should realise theyd be in a healthier place if they encouraged the Greens in constituencies where for whatever reason the Labour party is very unpopular, but a liberal left voice, the right personality as well, might kick a neoliberal out. That helps us build a progressive alliance.

Labour led by Corbyn have absolutely nothing to fear (at this point) about the Greens finding their feet in British politics. I am vaguely aware some Green parties abroad have sold out (capitalism + the environment rather than Green Socialism) but Greens are nowhere near that over here.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1188 on: January 13, 2019, 07:01:47 PM »
But the press would be down on any sniff of a coalition or alliance between parties before an election as they have shown before.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1189 on: January 13, 2019, 07:03:38 PM »
Even from a democratic perspective that one green voice is massive for democracy and the Green party versus say UKIP where their defector MP just sounded identical to 40 ERG members.

Yes. Brighton is a bit of a bubble, though.

Quote
Labour should realise theyd be in a healthier place if they encouraged the Greens in constituencies where for whatever reason the Labour party is very unpopular, but a liberal left voice, the right personality as well, might kick a neoliberal out. That helps us build a progressive alliance.

The Greens are a mixed bag, unfortunately. While Lucas is excellent, the Green councillors in Brighton have been a bit useless.

greencalx

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1190 on: January 13, 2019, 07:04:51 PM »
Yes. Brighton is a bit of a bubble, though.

The Greens are a mixed bag, unfortunately. While Lucas is excellent, the Green councillors in Brighton have been a bit useless.

All parties have their fair share of useless councillors.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1191 on: January 13, 2019, 07:17:04 PM »
All parties have their fair share of useless councillors.

True. I just don't think there's any point in encouraging them for the sake of having Green councillors.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1192 on: January 13, 2019, 07:23:00 PM »
Shaun Lawson's exhaustive article about the Corbyn anti-semitism slurs, and the groups and individuals responsible for propagating them.

https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/enough-is-enough-rachel-riley-gnasherjew-and-the-political-weaponisation-of-antisemitism-5251bb1adec5

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1193 on: January 13, 2019, 07:23:56 PM »
Yes. Brighton is a bit of a bubble, though.

The Greens are a mixed bag, unfortunately. While Lucas is excellent, the Green councillors in Brighton have been a bit useless.

They were more than useless weren't they? Massiveky anti-trade union. The leader had a good name though.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 07:48:59 PM by jobotic »

greencalx

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1194 on: January 13, 2019, 08:37:57 PM »
Shaun Lawson's exhaustive article about the Corbyn anti-semitism slurs, and the groups and individuals responsible for propagating them.

https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/enough-is-enough-rachel-riley-gnasherjew-and-the-political-weaponisation-of-antisemitism-5251bb1adec5

Thank you very much for that - a most informative piece.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1195 on: January 13, 2019, 10:36:08 PM »
They were more than useless weren't they? Massiveky anti-trade union. The leader had a good name though.

Ha, yes, all true.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1196 on: January 13, 2019, 11:38:49 PM »
I do like Corbyn's most recent email to Labour members:

Quote
Dear Johnny,

The Brexit deal Theresa May has negotiated is a bad deal and Labour will vote against it next week.

If the government can't pass its most important legislation then there must be a general election.

The real divide in our country is not between those who voted to remain in the EU and those who voted to leave. It's between the many – who do the work, create the wealth and pay taxes – and the few – who set the rules, reap the rewards and so often dodge taxes.

I put it like this: if you're living in Tottenham, you may well have voted to remain. You've got high bills, rising debts, you're in insecure work, you struggle to make your wages stretch, you may be on Universal Credit and forced to use a food bank. You're up against it.

If you're living in Mansfield, you're likely to have voted to leave. You've got high bills, rising debts, you're in insecure work, you struggle to make your wages stretch, you may be on Universal Credit and forced to use a food bank. You're up against it.

But you're not against each other.

Only Labour can bring people together based on their common interests. Whether they voted to leave or remain, people know that the system isn't working for them.

Because it's a system rigged against the many, to protect the interests of the few – that's the real cause of inequality and insecurity in Tottenham, Mansfield and across the country.

That's why an election is so urgent – and why we must win it. And what will make the difference? Your campaigning and your energy.

So in a speech today in Wakefield, I sent the prime minister a message: if you're so confident in your deal, call the election, and let the people decide.

But if you don't, Labour will table a motion of no confidence in the government, at the moment when we judge it has the best chance of success.

If we can't get an election, then we'll keep all options on the table, including campaigning for a public vote, as our members decided at Conference last September.

But an election is the best outcome because it enables us to tackle the Tories' cuts to public services, their awful Universal Credit, rising homelessness, and all the other issues that are damaging our communities.

Together, we have the chance to transform our country for the many, not the few.

Thank you.

Jeremy Corbyn

Stay focussed. Fuck the tories.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1197 on: January 13, 2019, 11:41:45 PM »
More-or-less encapsulated in this video:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1084421300691574784

Interestingly it sort of overshoots the Freedom of Movement debate by talking about helping refugees. Which is sort of heartening. No details on what would be negotiated, but there you go.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1198 on: January 15, 2019, 07:17:21 PM »
so is magic grandpa going to shit or get off the pot tonight?

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1199 on: January 15, 2019, 07:58:21 PM »
so is magic grandpa going to shit or get off the pot tonight?

Your dream is dying

May with less than two thirds support of her own party
Brexit deal dead
No confidence vote called