Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long

[Johnny Yesno]

More-or-less encapsulated in this video:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1084421300691574784

Interestingly it sort of overshoots the Freedom of Movement debate by talking about helping refugees. Which is sort of heartening. No details on what would be negotiated, but there you go.

Yeah, that's good too. The problem is, and always has been, the fucking cunt tories and their enablers with their dead ideology.

[Mr_Simnock]

I think a GE this year is an absolute certainty and after this shit show I can't see anything other than Labour in power. I also believe that due to the last few years with the referendum and the austerity etc this current lot won't see power again for at least 20 years, I think they have sunk that far down. I just don't know, without massive change in the future, how the tories would get in again for a generation. I know they like to use what happened under Labour during the late 70's etc as a stick to beat pensioners into voting for them but that now is so far into the past that for the majority of the voting populace now these last ten years will be new low bar for a shite gov and will stay in the mind for a long time and hang around their necks for decades. I have also considered that history might be repeating itself a little and just like the Liberals last century during the 1920's they shrink massively as a political force after a poor general election and a sound rejection of their ideology.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It would be nice if that hope were supported by some evidence. The Attack Machine on Corbyn continues relentlessly and all energy has been invested in propping up the Tories even if they are led by a liability with no authority and only 2/3rds support from a party with no majority.

The whole "what use would an election be" is clearly an anti-Corbyn trope, because the answer to that question is so obvious and easy to explain as to be almost self-evident to anyone with the power of reasoning.

But I do think these constant failures are bound to gradually chip away at enthusiasm from Tory voters, while the longer they stay in power, the more people will get sick of them. Throw in a recession...

[Replies From View]

People have astonishingly short political memories.  I'd love it if the Tories were pushed out of power for a generation, but they just need a change of leader, a fresh lick of paint and once the media are back onboard the electorate will forget everything.  The polls don't show the public sick of the Tories at all; they show them just a bit tired of Theresa May and the Brexit mess.  When it comes to voting intentions they still pretty much tie with Labour, as far as I can tell, which is shocking.

Even if Corbyn does win a general election all of the media will be against him every hour of every day.  It won't let up.

And to be honest if Corbyn goes and is replaced by another Blairite, the battle is lost anyway.  None of this is any good if we can only vote for Tories who happen to call themselves Labour.

[Johnny Yesno]

The polls don't show the public sick of the Tories at all; they show them just a bit tired of Theresa May and the Brexit mess.  When it comes to voting intentions they still pretty much tie with Labour, as far as I can tell, which is shocking.

It's almost like brexit is a distraction while they carry on redistributing wealth to their buddies.

[Mr_Simnock]

get some optimism you miserable cunts

[Johnny Yesno]

What's optimism got to do with noticing that the tories have been using brexit as a distraction so that they can carry on fucking people over?

[imitationleather]

People have astonishingly short political memories.

Too true. Quite a few fuckers already think that the Liberal Democrats are a viable political party to vote for again, and it's been less than ten years since they betrayed everyone in the worst way possible. And they're led by one of the main architects of the horrific decade we've had, a guy who was a major player in why everyone started to hate them in the first place. So it's not like they've even put any effort in to dressing themselves up to look like a renewed outfit of cunts who won't sell out everyone to get a sniff of power.

The Tories aren't dropping far until there's electoral reform, which is unlikely to be on the agenda again in our lifetimes.

[greenman]

More likely until theres media reform, especially at the BBC.

[Replies From View]

Too true. Quite a few fuckers already think that the Liberal Democrats are a viable political party to vote for again, and it's been less than ten years since they betrayed everyone in the worst way possible. And they're led by one of the main architects of the horrific decade we've had, a guy who was a major player in why everyone started to hate them in the first place. So it's not like they've even put any effort in to dressing themselves up to look like a renewed outfit of cunts who won't sell out everyone to get a sniff of power.

It's a good example of the shit sticking to one person - in that case Nick Clegg - which the Tories are hoping to repeat with May.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

get some optimism you miserable cunts

I have lots, I just don't use it as a basis to make predictions.

[TrenterPercenter]

Whilst there is some truth to some of this, it is clearly magnified by the press.  This also has to stop that suggesting any other Labour leader is a Blairite and therefore as bad as having a Tory.  Tom Watson is not a Blairite and is not like having Liz Kendall at the helm.  A lot of work has gone into changing the how the party operates and the dialogue that Labour has had with the electorate has changed things.

It is a more a game of chess than fist fight, the Tories have been forced to make moves they otherwise wouldn't have.  They have been stretched with a right-wing press working overtime to try and keep it all together, but concessions will have to be made.

PS -  I am not for one instant suggesting Watson should be leader just making the point that Blairite gets a but nebulous when thrown around... there isn't actually that many Blairites........but funnily enough they always get on TV)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I agree, but there is a bigger gap politically between Watson and Corbyn than Watson and Kendall.

Anyway, whatever happens Remainers will continue shouting that Labour haven't done enough to stop a Tory Brexit, despite Labour having only 265 seats in the commons and no majority in the lords.

Let's see:
- Literally campaigned during the referendum to Remain in the EU and directed its voters to do so, with the effect 2/3rds of its voters voted Remain
- After the referendum result was to Leave, Labour justifiably vowed to honour that result during the General Election. People were so outraged, that Labour's vote share increased by 10% and 3 million votes.
- Despite being in opposition Labour secured a meaningful vote via amendments to the legislation, which bore fruit last night when parliament rejected May's deal, but had already been painting the Tories into a corner and weakening the hard Brexit camp and May simultaneously, piece by piece.
- Labour have committed to remaining in a customs union with the EU and ruled out leaving the EU without a deal, soon to be backed up by further amendments in the house
- Labour have passed a no confidence motion in the Government precisely due to its failed Brexit policy
- Labour have inflicted more defeats on the government in two years than occurred between 1979-2010, predominantly over Brexit business.
- Labour have committed in the event if being unable to secure a general election of, among other options, holding a second referendum to see if the mood of the public has changed.

So, it's clear their policy has kept faithful to their pledge to honour the referendum while seeking to shape Brexit policy around Labour's priorities. At every opportunity they have had to reject Brexit as written by the Tories they have done. When they have noticed the mood turning against Brexit they have reflected that in their own policymaking.

Labour's voters were split down the middle on Brexit and so the leadership have quite rightly tread carefully and kept their moral compass focused on Labour voters shared values - worker rights, environmental and legal protections, jobs and trade advantages and backed that up at every opportunity while continuing to uphold their manifesto. That doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but it is time for Remainers to realise Labour owe a pledge to Remainers and Leavers, and therefore have a policy that reflects that.

Labour have also made the - correct - calculation that Remainers need Labour more than Leavers do, so their focus has been on retaining the support and loyalty of working class leavers, a not unfair or unwise ambition at all given most marginal seats up for grabs are in Leaver constituencies and most seats won last time were in Leaver constituencies.

There is no Corbynist plot to drive through Brexit against the will of the party. This is clearly evidenced by the presence of Keir Starmer as Shadow Brexit Secretary who is no-one's idea of a Brexiteer and was chosen by Corbyn. This is clearly evidenced by Labour following the precise motions passed by the members at the party conference.

Remember when people said Corbyn was unelectable because he always put principles before power? Now Remainers are demanding he does the opposite simply because of - factually - minority demands. That's their right to do, but it is deeply hypocritical, feckless, spoilt and intellectually dishonest.

[TrenterPercenter]

Agree with all of that obviously.  Labour are playing it brilliantly but with the entirety of the press against you the obvious keeps getting buried.

As for Watson, Corbyn will need to compromise just as any other leader could/should.  That is why intra-party reform is the key spread the powerbase and empower it and you cant just stick a Blairite in a suit at the top to decide everything.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Agree with that too.

Also worth reinforcing to any Remainers moaning about Labour that they are in an exquisitely difficult position politically and the fact they don't care for the nuanced approach because it doesn't provide them exactly and precisely everything they want right now like little babies is irrelevant vs. the maintenance of the Labour Party as a national political force, without which in its current form, Remaining or Leaving leads to two unappealing futures, albeit differing in their severity.

[pancreas]

The problem with many Labour members is that they've gone into bunker mentality over Brexit. Utterly consumed by hatred of what's being done to them and indulging in a sort of self-reflexive masochism over how it's their party that's done this, and Corbyn in particular. Utterly deluded that somehow if Corbyn had said 11 out of 10 instead of 7 on that fucking comedy show then we'd have avoided Brexit. So stupid, and so completely unreceptive to reason. But they've gone into emotional and intellectual meltdown and you can't dig them out.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/think-corbyn-is-a-danger-to-britain-heres-how-youve-been-brainwashed/12/12/

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/15/britain-theresa-may-must-go-brexit

Finally some focus on the correct target

[Paulie Walnuts]

Your dream is dying
No confidence vote called

Do you think she's going to lose then?

If an election was fought with Brexit as the central issue - Bojo Vs Corbyn - are you confident Corbyn would win? He's a fucking mile behind this treacherous cunt, and Johnson would be popular, particularly for anyone looking to exit the EU

[Paul Calf]

Do you think she's going to lose then?

If an election was fought with Brexit as the central issue - Bojo Vs Corbyn - are you confident Corbyn would win? He's a fucking mile behind this treacherous cunt, and Johnson would be popular, particularly for anyone looking to exit the EU

[Paulie Walnuts]

So is Corbyn's vote of no confidence going to work?
Would Corbyn beat BoJo in a GE?

no-one seems keen to answer

[Paulie Walnuts]

LADS

[jobotic]

LADS LOOK AT ME LADS LOOK I'M DOING SOMETHING. LADS

See Woodcock will be voting with government.

He knows which side is happy to have the support of fucking sex pests.

[Paulie Walnuts]

can you not answer either?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Your dream is dying
No confidence vote called

Corbyn to resign in embarassment?

[Jockice]

There are few things on earth duller than a dull fucker desperate to get a reaction. Eh lads?

[Mr_Simnock]

I have lots, I just don't use it as a basis to make predictions.

pfff, you seem to make yours on a distinct contempt/low view of the voting public

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

pfff, you seem to make yours on a distinct contempt/low view of the voting public

Not really, I predicted remain would just squeak it, that Trump would lose purely because he was so unbelievably vulgar, and that Corbyn would come through during a general election campaign to increase Labour's vote share.

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

How long will it take Corbyn to move towards calling for another referendum then?  Hours? Days? Weeks? Months?

[pancreas]

YEARS! YEARS1111!1!1!1!2!2
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