Author Topic: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long  (Read 23114 times)

Johnny Yesno

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2018, 07:04:16 PM »
Did he overdo the LSD or something?  He has that same permanently confused, tragic vibe.

Definitely not an acid casualty or even casual user. His thinking's too limited.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2018, 02:22:47 AM »
Quote
Jeremy Corbyn’s left-wing Labour Party gaining political power in the U.K. is a serious threat to the country’s super-rich, according to a senior executive at one of Switzerland’s oldest private banks.

“Corbyn is very dangerous for big fortunes,” said Heinrich Adami, who oversees Banque Pictet & Cie’s U.K. operations. Some of Pictet’s non-U.K. clients in the country already have a “Plan B” in place for moving to jurisdictions including Monaco, Italy and Portugal, he said Tuesday at a London event held by the 213-year-old firm. A Corbyn government "is one of the main issues our clients are losing sleep over.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-31/corbyn-dangerous-to-big-fortunes-says-swiss-bank-s-u-k-chief

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2018, 07:35:21 AM »
Super-rich people can’t possibly have a proper concept of “serious threat”.

Imagine them complaining about “losing sleep” while there are people attempting to get any kind of peace and respite overnight in freezing cold, damp sleeping bags beneath railway bridges.

Utterly clueless.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2018, 09:21:03 AM »
I hope British voters don't hear about the threat Corbyn poses to billionaire organized criminals, money launderers and embezzlers.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2018, 10:57:40 AM »
Losing sleep over Corbyn the Unelectable?

Hehehehe

Gone by Easter eh Milvs


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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2018, 07:10:56 PM »
Tell you what though - Aaron Bastani is a bit of a tit

king_tubby

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2018, 07:18:37 PM »
Oh lord yes.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2018, 08:41:39 PM »
Super-rich people can’t possibly have a proper concept of “serious threat”.

Imagine them complaining about “losing sleep” while there are people attempting to get any kind of peace and respite overnight in freezing cold, damp sleeping bags beneath railway bridges.

Utterly clueless.

Quite. The worst that'll happen is they'll have to give back some of the surplus money they were never going to spend anyway.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2018, 09:18:20 PM »
Tell you what though - Aaron Bastani is a bit of a tit

I don't regard him as a hero of any kind but interested in what makes you think that? I think he comes across better than say, the stuffy sanctimony of Owen Jones, who I like in spite of his pintpot perma-outrage. Bastini can apparently put points across calmly under pressure, cut through bullshit to hammer home central points and not veer into monotony.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2018, 01:19:28 AM »
Bastani is the smarmy door-to-door salesman of 'communism'. He wants to be a media professional marketing his product, but he's not even very good at that. Here he tries to promote his ideas and is so taken up with his patter that he allows, with the minimum of resistance, Matthew Parris to characterise communism as the state control of virtually everything that would require brutal enforcement methods to work.

When someone like Parris presents such a horrific image of the society you want that would alienate almost every person watching, you've got to make it clear emphatically and explicitly that that is not what you're advocating. It's not good enough for him to just make the caveat almost in passing that he's not talking about North Korea or the Soviet Union or Pol Pot. It's as if he thinks it's an academic seminar. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z-85q3eE0U&t=188s

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2018, 08:32:16 AM »
Bastani is a total fraud. On his show he talked about how he has weaponised racism, even Michael Walker looked surprised.

He's a treat though, embarrassing himself every few days, be it over the Muslim Dawah symbol or threatening someone with libel.  He's basically Rod Liddle or Katie Hopkins. Novara have been no help in antisemitic either, he did big public performances about personally sorting it out, but then never bothered to discuss with Adam Langleben or Marlon Solomon. Marlon spent a lot of time in dialogue with him and concluded he wasn't acting in good faith.

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2018, 09:10:51 AM »

Marlon Solomon and Luke Akehurst "acting in good faith", earlier

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2018, 09:15:17 AM »

Marlon Solomon and Luke Akehurst "acting in good faith", earlier

Why does the 3rd guys shirt not have the 'literally' pre-amble? Did he get a draft version printed off?

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2018, 09:19:04 AM »
I'm not a great follower of Marlon Solomon's but I believe these tshirts were his super invention - so his tshirt is the motherlode, the others mere copies, as it were.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2018, 09:44:37 AM »
He's a comedian.

It's a quote from someone on the Occupy Facebook page slagging him off, that he references during his show.

That's a Jewish man, laughing at someone who hurled antisemitic abuse at him.

I mean, really.

Come and see his show at the NW JLM event next Sunday 18th focusing on antisemitism and islamophobia. It's very funny.

http://www.jlm.org.uk/nwnovevent

Great to see Jews and Muslims in solidarity too, really interesting to see the alliance on antisemitism and against Assad.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2018, 10:04:34 AM »
TFM smells blood. Off he goes to post warmongering tripe in service of cunts who wouldn’t shit on him even if he asked them really nicely, which he frequently does as you can see from his Twitter feed.

Sad bald twat. Your cynical self-serving toss has been entirely exposed and you can no longer pretend that you believe in anything other than selling bullshit by the ton for a living. Off you fuck.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2018, 10:09:43 AM »

Come and see his show at the NW JLM event next Sunday 18th focusing on antisemitism blahblablah

Ooh, this looks good. Will there be an opportunity to sexually harass young female party members?

KennyMonster

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2018, 11:08:50 AM »
Novara have been no help in antisemitic either,

Can you name anybody who has been help 'in antisemitic' though?

No time to review and rationalise eh?
Urge to thump out ill thought out angry messages has taken over once again.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2018, 11:11:54 AM »
Ooh, this looks good. Will there be an opportunity to sexually harass young female party members?

There might be time for a bit of harassment, but remember the point is to get together and try to do as much damage as possible to Corbyn and Labour party members.

KennyMonster

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2018, 11:27:28 AM »



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Fabian Thomsett

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2018, 11:56:20 AM »
Bastani's on Any Questions tonight.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2018, 01:05:38 PM »
Bastani is the smarmy door-to-door salesman of 'communism'. He wants to be a media professional marketing his product, but he's not even very good at that. Here he tries to promote his ideas and is so taken up with his patter that he allows, with the minimum of resistance, Matthew Parris to characterise communism as the state control of virtually everything that would require brutal enforcement methods to work.

When someone like Parris presents such a horrific image of the society you want that would alienate almost every person watching, you've got to make it clear emphatically and explicitly that that is not what you're advocating. It's not good enough for him to just make the caveat almost in passing that he's not talking about North Korea or the Soviet Union or Pol Pot. It's as if he thinks it's an academic seminar. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z-85q3eE0U&t=188s

Sorry Manticore but you are hardly the reasoned voice of Communism and the left.  Obviously Matthew Parris has the advantage of culturally embedded notion assisted by western governments that Communism is an inherently evil system in which authouritarianism is written into it's DNA.  You seem to think that there is some treatment, some explanation of the Soviet Union that can quell your irrational fears about Communism.  Nothing will, it's an irrational fear.  By all means be fearful and critical of Sovietism (or Imperialism as that is what it was) but just remember that it isn't that we don't have a Marxist interpretation of capital or a nationalised rail service that keeps the west on the straight and narrow.  Its our legal system, our democratic organisation and procedures all based on societal or socialist tenets.

Personally I think it is stupid to say "I'm literally a Communist" because people like yourself can not get your head around that the person is not saying "I'm literally a Sovietist".  Orwell, in someways has as lot to answer for, 1984 and Animal Farm are seemingly the only two writings on governance and socialism people seem to have implanted in their emotional memory.  He also had fucking lot of good things to say about Socialism and Marxism....and Communism in it's original meaning.  He loathed the Communist Party because they lied, failed to support and imprisoned actual Socialists on the Catalonian front (and much to say about the right-wing medias hysterical treatment of the left-wing). 

The word is dead, killed by people that don't know anything about how Sovietism even came about or why Imperialism is so different when it's done in Russian accent, and people that just like to feel they are protecting "something" from some imaginary sleeper cell of socialists that are going to paint everything grey and ban thoughts.

The psychological trick of course is that "it could happen here" great democracies and llberties can be lost overnight (and all by an abundance of smashed avocado sandwiches and silly haircuts).  All I ask is start at the beginning Manticore.  Russia was not a stable, fair, open democracy prior to the revolution, it was absolute monarchy in which all wealth was controlled and distributed by an elite family.  The peasant classes lived under a dictatorship in which famines regularly killed millions.  The "tyranny" already existed and the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks the two main socialist factions fought to escape it.  It wasn't some silly flirtation with well meaning empathy that bought about the revolution and it wasn't some underlying authoritarianism that sustained it.  It was appropriated by authoritarians, largely due to the fear an empowered working class had on the western imperialists  that they didn't just refuse to assist the emancipated workers (like we might say we would for those in North Korea) but invaded them in order to restablish their absolute monarchy.

The pretext for the kind of authoritarian dicatatorship occurring in developed democractic states is actually Italy and the Nazis and the first thing they did was kill the fucking lefties because that is what fascists do.  So can I just give you some advise and suggest if you are really scared of ended up in a gulag then you might want to stop spending all your time moaning about the fucking left-wing whilst far-right governments get elected around the world.     

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2018, 04:38:57 PM »
I was just about to start this thread with a savage title like "Corbyn: 22 (% approval rating)" or something. I'm sure your momentum comrades will give you a big pat on the back for robbing me of that opportunity. Well done.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2018, 05:17:51 PM »
Sorry Manticore but you are hardly the reasoned voice of Communism and the left.  Obviously Matthew Parris has the advantage of culturally embedded notion assisted by western governments that Communism is an inherently evil system in which authouritarianism is written into it's DNA.  You seem to think that there is some treatment, some explanation of the Soviet Union that can quell your irrational fears about Communism.  Nothing will, it's an irrational fear.

Trenter, I really like you, but this whole post has nothing to do with what I wrote - it's not a response to it at all. I have absolutely no fear of 'communism', irrational or otherwise. Authoritarian 'communism' of the Soviet model is a dead duck as a real possibility, though that doesn't mean there aren't authoritarian strains and currents on the left. I was saying that Bastani did an inadequate job in not making absolutely clear that Parris' statements about the political philosophy of Marx and communism were wrong. Someone watching that discussion could have come away with the impression that Parris' characterisation of communism as total state control of everything was true, because Bastani's reponse was really inadequate. Parris says 'it's clear what Karl Marx meant' and he was lying.

It's absolutely imperative that the left makes it explicit that the idea of reform or radical social change is not inherenty tied up with authoritarianism and statism. Those things are deeply off-putting to most people, for good reason. Orwell was right, and I don't think he has anything to answer for, just because the right have appropriated his wrtings.

KennyMonster

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2018, 06:18:20 PM »
..................Orwell, in someways has as lot to answer for, 1984 and Animal Farm are seemingly the only two writings on governance and socialism people seem to have implanted in their emotional memory........................  H

At the risk of derailing the thread, I've never understood the blanket mainstream view that "1984 is about Stalinist Russia, end of".

Animal Farm, for sure is, that is very hard to argue against it being about Stalinist Russia.

But reading 1984 my first impression was that it was about 'us' , the perpetual war, the hate figure (Osama Bin Laden, Assad, Putin, there's always got to be at least one), the re-editing of history (A BBC News website piece recently on Iran used 1979 as year zero explain how evil they are and justify recent sanctions because if you go back further you'd start to question the morality of The UK and US).
Also the description of US patriotic events by Kngn on the British Legion thread.  etc etc.

Isn't the '1984 is about Stalinist Russia' argument a bit of rightwing brainwashing and a little bit meta-1984?

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2018, 07:35:11 PM »
Something that Orwell himself said about 1984:

“My novel Nineteen Eighty-Four is not intended as an attack on socialism, or on the British Labor party, but as a show-up of the perversions to which a centralized economy is liable, and which have already been partly realized in Communism and fascism. I do not believe that the kind of society I describe necessarily will arrive, but I believe (allowing of course for the fact that the book is a satire) that something resembling it could arrive. I believe also that totalitarian ideas have taken root in the minds of intellectuals everywhere, and I have tried to draw these ideas out to their logical consequences. The scene of the book is laid in Britain in order to emphasize that the English-speaking races are not innately better than anyone else and that totalitarianism, if not fought against, could triumph anywhere.”

https://www.e-ir.info/2012/08/28/wrong-about-orwell-being-on-the-right/#_ftn6

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2018, 07:44:46 PM »
1984 would have been fuelled by his own observations of how the propaganda machine operated in WWII Britain within the BBC.

...and here we are today.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2018, 08:30:36 PM »
I think that Aaron Bastani isn't helping to dispell the nonsense that leftists are duplicitious in the way that Nazis are. We do not have anything to hide because we aren't asking for anything lurid or revolting, if we do not clearly outline what we are demanding then we allow the narrative to be controlled by the right, which it has always been admittedley. Wires may have been crossed in this discussion, as I think we pretty much all agree, the history surrounding the Russian Revolution and the Soviet Union is remarkably poor. It was a catastrophe, but not a particularly special one. People still adhere to the nonsense espoused by the Black Book of Communism, and don't realise that the totalitarianism of the Soviet system didn't arise out of nowhere, the Tsarist authoritarianism was already in place.

Fabian Thomsett

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2018, 08:41:54 PM »
Bastani's on Any Questions tonight.

...And Dimbleby and the other panellists have pretty much shut down any debate about this at all. Cos of course they have.