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Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long

Started by pigamus, November 02, 2018, 09:47:03 AM

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TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on December 09, 2018, 08:14:39 AM
1. "We're staying in the EU for a bit a longer, but without any representation." Sell that to the Great British Public and their parliamentarians.
2. No one in EFTA wants us to be in EFTA.
3. The EU wants to safeguard the GFA for the foreseeable future. This means that any 'time-limited' deal (like the current Withdrawal Agreement') needs a backstop if we don't manage to negotiate a future relationship by the time that the deal runs out.

'Norway' is attractive in so far as it avoids a lot of the practical problems of leaving the EU (by not leaving the EU, broadly). It's not clear how it solves any of the problems involved of getting the relevant people to agree to it.

This basically.  Northern Ireland aside, it means the UK would have no votes over EU rules.....which is kinda the big criticism of May's deal.

manticore

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on December 09, 2018, 01:21:44 PM
This basically.  Northern Ireland aside, it means the UK would have no votes over EU rules.....which is kinda the big criticism of May's deal.

Okay, I keep citing Yanis Varoufakis, because he's almost the only person talking about this issue who speaks in a language I can understand and whose arguments make sense to me:

Varoufakis:
QuoteWhen I say Norway + – what is the plus? Well, people including some of my comrades in this country and in this party, say to me that the problem with the Norway solution and the difficulty the Labour Party has in supporting it, is because it turns Britain into an EU rules-taker.

This of course is correct  – this is the price you have to pay for being inside a transnational market. But it doesn't have to be that way. Britain does not have to be an EU rule-taker if it strikes a Norway-style agreement.

Allow me to be very specific in three areas here. One is labour market standards and protections for wage labour. Secondly, environmental standards and the protection of the environment. Thirdly, financial regulation. Nothing stops Britain in a Norway-style agreement from setting for itself and for any company working within the United Kingdom, higher regulatory standards for the City of London, higher environmental standards, higher minimum wages and higher standards for defending wage labour.

The whole speech to Labour MPs and councillors addresses most of the most important issues that the left has to face in approaching the EU and how to deal with Brexit, that I'm not seeing dealt with much in the discussions here:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/yanis-varoufakis/magnificent-oomph-securing-progressive-brexit-0

He talks about the Irish side of it here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uk-needs-norway-style-deal-post-brexit-says-varoufakis-1.3287359

It's about breathing space, and that's what his plan would give us.

Zetetic

These may be more useful proposals in the event that there's a strong Labour government in the next few months that's able to undo some of the ill-will accrued in the last two years, maybe.

Maybe in the context of GE, although I think Varoufakis is optimistic that Labour can disappear the 'rule-taker' argument by pointing out that we can and should apply more stringent regulation - given that so much of the nonsense rhetoric about the EU over decades is that regulation is strangling our economy.

I'm not convinced that his NI position is as trivially workable as he makes out - there are risks to the GFA there. (Surmountable, but with difficulty, I'd guess.)

They're not much use with the parliament we have here and now, as far as I can see.

Zetetic

(For what it's worth, I think that quite a lot of what Varoufakis discusses there has been talked about at length on CaB. I appreciate that it's often buried under an awful lot of noise.)

biggytitbo

See ya then, you big Sid James bollock:


olliebean

Bet you he won't. People who say that never follow through.

FredNurke

He might already have followed through, judging by his expression.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: olliebean on December 12, 2018, 12:26:10 PM
Bet you he won't. People who say that never follow through.

Must be why he's so full of shit

Thomas

His reasoning is that he'd fear for the futures of his children and grandchildren. Presumably he'd take them with him when he bravely flees to whatever billionaire-friendly utopia he settles on.

It must be quite relaxing if your biggest concern about your loved ones is the possible election of Jeremy Corbyn. I note he wasn't sufficiently concerned to make any no-nonsense statements about Windrush, or the spare bedroom tax, or Universal Credit, or suicides linked to Tory policy, or the discriminatory impact of austerity, or the recent UN findings on child poverty. None of that is as concerning as the prospect Jeremy Corbyn leading a Cabinet for a while. Only then could any sort of outrage be achieved.

In 2015 he declared that poverty isn't what it used to be -

QuoteYou've got some people up north and in places like that who are quite poor, but they all have mobile phones, being poor, and they've got microwave ovens, being poor, and they've got televisions, being poor. Compare that to 60 years ago. If you really want to know what poor is like go and live where I lived in Hackney, where you didn't have enough money for the electric, didn't have a shilling for the meter.

It's almost as if times and technology and monetary value in relation to goods have... changed over the last sixty years? Why are none of the modern poor having to put shillings in meters? And why have they got microwaves? What happened to the decent poor? You don't see anyone in Kes eating a Rustlers.

Replies From View

Quote from: Thomas on December 12, 2018, 05:15:14 PM
His reasoning is that he'd fear for the futures of his children and grandchildren. Presumably he'd take them with him when he bravely flees to whatever billionaire-friendly utopia he settles on.

He's slightly optimistic there if he thinks he'll be going to heaven after slaughtering his genetic lineage.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

It's almost like consumer capitalism which he is a big fan of is based around encouraging people with very little to buy what they can't afford via debt.

This is why many people at the bottom are pushed to the fringes and despise the Tories and despise centrism and liberalism.

They do what the system wants them to do then feel betrayed when twats like Sugar have a go at them for it.

Furthermore if you have something on a contract you don't own it unless you have paid the debt, you are effectively renting use of it. So Sugar hates poor people renting stuff they can't afford but have been told are bad for doing so despite every cultural cue telling them to do so.

Yes scrimp and save with your nothing but please keep up with next door by buying stuff on credit so we have you xhained to debt for life.

Pushead fucking cunt, fuck off you absolute Rolls twat

Johnny Yesno

He's an obvious cunt but people will still watch his shit for cunts show.

garnish

Jesus the pundits on newsnight are shit for cunts.

"We've always been divided! Left and right! And not even about politics!"

People are dying in their thousands you fucking prick, politics is not a fucking career choice for the wealthy.  Fuck off Guardian columnist as well for acting like it's all a fucking parlour game too.

garnish

Quote from: Thomas on December 12, 2018, 05:15:14 PM
It's almost as if times and technology and monetary value in relation to goods have... changed over the last sixty years? Why are none of the modern poor having to put shillings in meters? And why have they got microwaves? What happened to the decent poor? You don't see anyone in Kes eating a Rustlers.

To say nothing of the fact that a millionaire ignoramus is the first person we should be listening to about the condition of people in poverty "up north".  "Up north" presumably being north of him.

There is this weird thing with certain millionaires that refuse to acknowledge the material conditions of people below the breadline because they remember themselves struggling 50 years previously.  Why does it upset them so?  Is it just a coping mechanism so they don't feel guilt about their wealth?

jobotic

He's been taken out of context. What he actually said was

"Corbyn to lead the country. It'll be more like, hang on I'm doing it, it'll be more like leave the country if that happens. Was that bit a joke? Oh right."

olliebean

Quote from: garnish on December 12, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
To say nothing of the fact that a millionaire ignoramus is the first person we should be listening to about the condition of people in poverty "up north".  "Up north" presumably being north of him.

There is this weird thing with certain millionaires that refuse to acknowledge the material conditions of people below the breadline because they remember themselves struggling 50 years previously.  Why does it upset them so?  Is it just a coping mechanism so they don't feel guilt about their wealth?

In most cases, the fact that they're millionaires now probably means they didn't quite have it as hard as they think they did. The number of rich people who claim to be entirely self-made, and it turns out they mean "Apart from that money my uncle gave me to start my first business," or something similar, is remarkable. So the delusion is failing to realise that most poor people don't have access to the little advantages that helped them get a leg up.

Harry Stottle

Ain't got no balls that corbyn lad.
You wouldn't want him next to you in the trenches that's all i'm sayin.

God bless the queen lads,
Harry

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Harry Stottle on December 13, 2018, 05:46:17 PM
Ain't got no balls that corbyn lad.
You wouldn't want him next to you in the trenches that's all i'm sayin.

God bless the queen lads,
Harry

Rubbish parody account. Worst i can remember.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: olliebean on December 13, 2018, 12:48:22 PM
In most cases, the fact that they're millionaires now probably means they didn't quite have it as hard as they think they did. The number of rich people who claim to be entirely self-made, and it turns out they mean "Apart from that money my uncle gave me to start my first business," or something similar, is remarkable. So the delusion is failing to realise that most poor people don't have access to the little advantages that helped them get a leg up.

Didn't Sugar admit to one or two shady transactions in the early days of his business career, or am I misremembering?

Twit 2

Even today he'd fuck a stolen pig for a fistful of knock-off biros.

garnish

Most of his wealth today didn't come from any business acumen anyway, he invested in property in London in the 80s before the bubble started and he's lived off the returns ever since.

Harry Stottle

Quote from: BlodwynPig on December 13, 2018, 08:12:47 PM
Rubbish parody account. Worst i can remember.
Touched a nerve there did i son?


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Twit 2 on December 13, 2018, 11:31:07 PM
Even today he'd fuck a stolen pig for a fistful of knock-off biros.

Laughed

A toad squatting in a foetid waterway.

Zetetic

There are, of course, still a fair number of people in the UK living in absolute poverty even if we have driven the proportion down enormously from the immediate post-war period.

(Not to dismiss points about relative poverty or debt.)

Quote from: Harry Stottle on December 13, 2018, 05:46:17 PM
Ain't got no balls that corbyn lad.
You wouldn't want him next to you in the trenches that's all i'm sayin.

God bless the queen lads,
Harry

Harry Leslie Smith's evil doppelganger emerges from the black lodge

did anybody see Rachel Riley's twitter meltdown about antisemitism in labour

KennyMonster

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on December 15, 2018, 11:56:07 AM
did anybody see Rachel Riley's twitter meltdown about antisemitism in labour

Yes I did unfortunately, she obviously has got her diary mixed up, The Integrity Initiative is doing "Corbyn is a Russian Stooge" from now up until Christmas and the next "Corbyn is an Antisemite" cycle is scheduled for the week commencing the 7th Jan.

biggytitbo

Basically everyone who's told Sugar to fuck off is now an antisemite.

This is NOBS syndrome:

QuoteElite persecution complex


Twed

Quote from: KennyMonster on December 15, 2018, 12:37:37 PM
Yes I did unfortunately, she obviously has got her diary mixed up, The Integrity Initiative is doing "Corbyn is a Russian Stooge" from now up until Christmas and the next "Corbyn is an Antisemite" cycle is scheduled for the week commencing the 7th Jan.
I am feeling so suffocated by humanity these days. There's no analysis going on there, is there? It's just that her peers echo these views and she quite fancied a trying some of that fashionable outrage. All of this via the urges of the powerful and their media. I'm sad. I think society is ruined. We can't sustain a political environment where people are helped.