Author Topic: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long  (Read 111397 times)

Zetetic

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1110 on: January 10, 2019, 04:49:52 PM »
Subsidies, tax cuts and eased regulatory 'burden', I'd guess.

Good 'labour relations', maybe.

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1111 on: January 11, 2019, 07:27:04 AM »
If labour stick with this impossible policy they'll end up as fucked as Theresa May


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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1112 on: January 11, 2019, 09:04:43 AM »
Nice one mate great post knocks it out of the park again what sauce take a bow son

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1113 on: January 11, 2019, 09:11:26 AM »
If they win an election and actually stick to that policy they can only end up in the same position as Theresa May though can't they - fucked? Or do you think they should just maintain this claim until they win an election, because it potentially upsets the least number of people on either side, then renege as soon as it becomes apparent that magically uniting parliament and the country on this issue is impossible? That doesn't sound very honest to me.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1114 on: January 11, 2019, 09:43:25 AM »
Awesome read top stanza start to finish 8/10

pancreas

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1115 on: January 11, 2019, 09:50:37 AM »
I also enjoyed it. Have you considered writing for the Guardian, Biggy?

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1116 on: January 11, 2019, 09:56:15 AM »
If they win an election and actually stick to that policy they can only end up in the same position as Theresa May though can't they - fucked?

Ask yourself, why is Theresa May fucked?  Primarily hubris and numbers me old love.  And it's the numbers that are fucking her, they just do not add up. 

Now, ask yourself what changes when you have a general election.  Numbers isn't it?  That's right.  Corbyn, if he wins, will have different numbers to play with.  Those numbers could be so good, he can do what the fuck he likes but even if they're not, he'll be able to decide how to play them before he starts the game and he won't have the ERG or the DUP looking over his shoulder.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1117 on: January 11, 2019, 09:59:46 AM »
Isn't the question that if Labour win an election they are still facing an EU that have said that the deal is non-negotiable. Would that necessarily change with a change of government? A friend who I was trying to convince about Corbyn and labour asked that question last night and I didn't have a satisfactory answer

pancreas

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1118 on: January 11, 2019, 10:04:26 AM »
Yes, I believe the EU would renegotiate in the circumstance of a change of govt and I'm pretty sure one of the bigwigs has intimated that at some point. I suspect we'd have to do something big like concede FoM, though.

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1119 on: January 11, 2019, 10:08:38 AM »
Not being privy to the negotiations, I can't give an absolute answer but my guess would be that in any negotiation, the two sides know pretty much what the other side wants. 

I'd say the EU understands that May needs things that will get the ERG and DUP to play ball, so these would be concessions on the Irish border (never going to happen) and disappearing up its own arse (I think the ERG only want things that are impossible from the EU because they dogmatically hate it, the EU can offer literally nothing other than ceasing to exist that will please them).  Given those insights, when the EU says it won't be offering fresh proposals, I think it's talking about on these areas.

If Labour were the government, they've already made it clear their ideas on a leaving package would be different from the tory ones.  The NI border, for one, wouldn't come into play if Keir Starmer's famous customs union were agreed, so I think, if government changed, there probably would be a willingness in the EU to renegotiate.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1120 on: January 11, 2019, 10:26:35 AM »
Yes, I believe the EU would renegotiate in the circumstance of a change of govt and I'm pretty sure one of the bigwigs has intimated that at some point. I suspect we'd have to do something big like concede FoM, though.

There’s also the possibility that the EU will respond differently to a more socialist government.  The UK normally pushes for the EU to take more Thatcherite policies than most other EU countries have wanted.  Under Corbyn different understandings and concessions may occur.

Blumf

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1121 on: January 11, 2019, 10:43:07 AM »
I'm still deeply worried that, regardless of the details, holding the ball when Brexit happens (or doesn't) will be devastatingly toxic.

The Tories at least have May to palm the mess onto, even if it doesn't leave them completely clean (even though it's basically 100% their fault), but this could very easily stick to all of Labour, with the possible exception of the Blairites.

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1122 on: January 11, 2019, 10:52:51 AM »
You could be right but I'm hoping - of course, my own hope is that it doesn't happen, for my own sake but given that that's unlikely, my hope for the UK is that whatever Brexit happens affects the wellbeing of the British people as little as possible. 

If the ERG and the tory right get their way, I think ordinary Brits (and don't even go there with the people of Northern Ireland) will suffer like they haven't for nearly a century.  It might be beer and skittles for the hedge fund owners and old Bullindonians but for ordinary people, it will be carnage. 

I'm hoping, that if Labour/Corbyn steers the ship, they'll navigate a passage that's as close to what the UK has now as possible, it won't be as good, it can't be as good but something that allows even those in steerage to come through unscathed.  That's what I'm hoping.

Sure, if they do it, they'll be hated by those who'd gain from other's loss and those who want to send the buggers back but that was always going to be the case.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1123 on: January 11, 2019, 10:54:58 AM »
I'm still deeply worried that, regardless of the details, holding the ball when Brexit happens (or doesn't) will be devastatingly toxic.

The Tories at least have May to palm the mess onto, even if it doesn't leave them completely clean (even though it's basically 100% their fault), but this could very easily stick to all of Labour, with the possible exception of the Blairites.

Do you think it's likely Labour will be in charge on 1st April?

Also re other posts above Corbyn has gone further than a Brexit stance and committed to actually healing the divided nation by meeting leave and remainers common needs regardless of the outcome.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1124 on: January 11, 2019, 11:02:14 AM »
Do you think it's likely Labour will be in charge on 1st April?

Also re other posts above Corbyn has gone further than a Brexit stance and committed to actually healing the divided nation by meeting leave and remainers common needs regardless of the outcome.

For your first point I imagine an election would require an extension to A50 until a new government is formed

As to your second, that is the sort of thing that is easy to say but is it actually possible to do? There are lots of remainers who will accept nothing less than a revoking of A50 and many leavers who will feel betrayed if we don't carry it out. I understand the point is to deal with all the other issues that aren't Brexit but that takes time and a lot of people, on either side, see this single issue as being paramount above all else

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1125 on: January 11, 2019, 11:09:50 AM »
As to your second, that is the sort of thing that is easy to say but is it actually possible to do? There are lots of remainers who will accept nothing less than a revoking of A50 and many leavers who will feel betrayed if we don't carry it out.

Just do what you do when you have two different coloured hairbrushes and push their bristles together.

It looks nice afterwards and it creates a satisfying physical sensation while you’re doing it.

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1126 on: January 11, 2019, 11:15:41 AM »
Make sure you wash the hairbrushes first though.  Eeuw.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1127 on: January 11, 2019, 11:16:20 AM »
For your first point I imagine an election would require an extension to A50 until a new government is formed

As to your second, that is the sort of thing that is easy to say but is it actually possible to do? There are lots of remainers who will accept nothing less than a revoking of A50 and many leavers who will feel betrayed if we don't carry it out. I understand the point is to deal with all the other issues that aren't Brexit but that takes time and a lot of people, on either side, see this single issue as being paramount above all else

I agree, but I think people are starting to have enough of this subject and many more people are desperate to move on. Hence the standard leaver "just get on and do Brexit" line, which in itself betrays how badly they were missold how easy it would be.

biggytitbo

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1128 on: January 11, 2019, 01:57:46 PM »
Do you think it's likely Labour will be in charge on 1st April?

Also re other posts above Corbyn has gone further than a Brexit stance and committed to actually healing the divided nation by meeting leave and remainers common needs regardless of the outcome.


I really want Corbyn to win and be able to do some of his very good policies but this 'healing a divided nation' stuff sounds a bit like someone has drunk too much koolaid. Maybe this fanciful idea would be more credible if brexit simply didn't exist as an issue at all, but it does and pretending you can somehow 'unite the nation and parliament' about this is just delusional and they're setting himself up for us to be back in the current impasse in 6 months time but with Corbyn getting all the blame instead of May.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 05:31:01 PM by biggytitbo »

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1129 on: January 11, 2019, 03:34:19 PM »

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1130 on: January 11, 2019, 04:17:36 PM »

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1131 on: January 11, 2019, 04:19:36 PM »
I hope it's raspberry.  Don't like strawberry flavour.  If it tastes of strawberry, you are welcome to the whole thing.

pancreas

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1132 on: January 11, 2019, 04:20:39 PM »
Rhubarb.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1133 on: January 11, 2019, 04:20:52 PM »
I hope it's raspberry.  Don't like strawberry flavour.  If it tastes of strawberry, you are welcome to the whole thing.

Cheers I hope it is strawberry then.

NoSleep

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1134 on: January 11, 2019, 04:44:21 PM »
Pus, obviously.

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1135 on: January 11, 2019, 04:49:31 PM »
All yours Viewsy.

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1136 on: January 11, 2019, 05:44:47 PM »
All yours Viewsy.

Not if it's pus.

You can have it if it's pus.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1137 on: January 11, 2019, 05:50:38 PM »
Wasssssssspus!

Buelligan

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Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1138 on: January 11, 2019, 10:57:20 PM »
You've been on the wrong side of the sea for too long.  It's arse.  And it's in its head anyway, any fool can see that.

D'you want it, 's going begging.

Re: Corbyn 22 Now But It Won't Be For Long
« Reply #1139 on: January 12, 2019, 06:25:30 AM »
Not being privy to the negotiations, I can't give an absolute answer but my guess would be that in any negotiation, the two sides know pretty much what the other side wants. 

I'd say the EU understands that May needs things that will get the ERG and DUP to play ball, so these would be concessions on the Irish border (never going to happen) and disappearing up its own arse (I think the ERG only want things that are impossible from the EU because they dogmatically hate it, the EU can offer literally nothing other than ceasing to exist that will please them).  Given those insights, when the EU says it won't be offering fresh proposals, I think it's talking about on these areas.

If Labour were the government, they've already made it clear their ideas on a leaving package would be different from the tory ones.  The NI border, for one, wouldn't come into play if Keir Starmer's famous customs union were agreed, so I think, if government changed, there probably would be a willingness in the EU to renegotiate.

Indeed, May's position has I'd say always been fundamentally dishonest, I mean even this deal is 90% kicking the can down the road and negations have been all about getting bones to throw to contradictory viewpoints. By comparison I suspect Labour would be negotiating from a clear position that the EU themselves are much more likely to be happy with, exactly details of the "plus" might be contentious but the UK in a Norwayish situation is vastly preferable for them.