Author Topic: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)  (Read 69282 times)

Kelvin

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2430 on: March 14, 2019, 10:28:31 PM »
More derivative of modern things?  Not sure if that counts as an active decision though, or just a failure to strike out in a unique direction.

Well, it was a fairly significant tonal departure from the Who of RTD and Moffat. I don't really think it matters that it was influenced by other shows, considering that a) RTD's Who was very heavily influenced by Buffy, and b) being influenced by other work is a normal part of creativity, and only a problem if it feels especially derivative. Chibnall's who was bad/boring for all kinds of reasons, but I don't think it felt like a series explicitly stealing from others. It was the writing that was the issue, not the tone they are aiming for.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2431 on: March 14, 2019, 10:41:00 PM »
I haven't seen the Young Adult stuff that you said series 11 might be imitating, so I don't know if it can be considered derivative.  I just get the sense that this series wouldn't have achieved anything unique on that level because everything else about it was so hollow.

It wasn't tonally so different from previous series; it was using a certain type of camera and was doing the teal and orange thing a lot, so yes visually it had a superficially different flavour.  I disagree that Chibnall is doing anything grittier than Moffat.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2432 on: March 15, 2019, 12:39:26 AM »
I haven't seen the Young Adult stuff that you said series 11 might be imitating, so I don't know if it can be considered derivative.  I just get the sense that this series wouldn't have achieved anything unique on that level because everything else about it was so hollow.

It wasn't tonally so different from previous series; it was using a certain type of camera and was doing the teal and orange thing a lot, so yes visually it had a superficially different flavour.  I disagree that Chibnall is doing anything grittier than Moffat.

No, it's not grittier in this instance. But I do think it's more earnest, grounded, and more openly trying to discuss social issues - all of which I associate with Young Adult TV/films.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2433 on: March 15, 2019, 02:58:40 PM »
More derivative of modern things?  Not sure if that counts as an active decision though, or just a failure to strike out in a unique direction.

To be fair, RTD deliberately modelled his seasons on Buffy the Vampire Slayer in tone and structure. And Chibnall has talked about all of these things as deliberate choices. Which they have to be - telly doesn't just happen; the use of cameras, the colour palette, the tone of the dialogue and plots are all decided by the production team, as is their implementation.

FAKE EDIT: shit, I missed where someone else said that.

It wasn't tonally so different from previous series; it was using a certain type of camera and was doing the teal and orange thing a lot, so yes visually it had a superficially different flavour.  I disagree that Chibnall is doing anything grittier than Moffat.

The writing is very different, particularly in Rosa and Punjab - no RTD or Moffat stories came close to treating their historical subjects or time zones with such gravity or reverence. Compare them to The Shakespeare Code or Let's Kill Hitler, for example. The closest is Vincent and The Doctor, but that was notably different from its surrounding episodes, and even that has Matt Smith pissing about with an invisible parrot.

Look at the performances too, and the writing that supports them. Alan Cummings' King James was the only "big" performance all season, whereas the RTD and Moffat eras were full of that kind of thing. Even the Trump parody character was played as a real person, and relatively subdued.

There is, in writing and tone, absolutely a notable trend towards a heaviness (I wouldn't say grittiness) and realism that hasn't been a part of Who before. The cameras and cinematography are a part of that too (because in film, the surface is also party of the substance).

None of this is to say that the series is good - Chibnall is clearly a dull and unimaginative man who's massively out of his depth - but he is trying to do something different, even if he's not actually very good at it.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2434 on: March 15, 2019, 03:40:50 PM »
I think Doctor Who needs more levity than Chibnall has realised.  When it takes itself too seriously, it starts seeming absurd anyway, but for the wrong reasons.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2435 on: March 15, 2019, 04:12:29 PM »
Bit surprised DWM didn't manage a big interview with Chibnall where he talked about the season. I had supposed that not talking about anything before the episodes would be balanced out by a big post-season chat. Still time for that of course

Was there no big interview with him at all? Or do you mean there wasn't one after the season had been transmitted?

Just remembered I've got this: Doctor Who Magazine - The Story of Doctor Who



...which has a four or five page interview with him. Never bothered to read it though. The interview, that is.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2436 on: March 15, 2019, 04:16:02 PM »
It's a real beginners-level 'this is what the rest of Doctor Who was like' 101 guide. Not really worth a tenner. I should point out (actually maybe I shouldn't) that I only bought it because I was drunk and I'd just been threatened by a bloke in a pub after a pool game became fractious and I needed a bit of a comfort blanket so I grabbed some lovely old reassuring Doctor Who.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2437 on: March 15, 2019, 04:31:38 PM »
A tenner?!! Jesus wept.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2438 on: March 15, 2019, 04:36:06 PM »
Before I read the end of that sentence, I was enjoying the idea of a drunk man returning to an angry bloke to show he means business by means of a special edition of Doctor Who Magazine. Holding up the front cover. "You've messed with the wrong guy."

Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2439 on: March 16, 2019, 10:31:41 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWBNgvtdR20

This seems pretty much what I'd expect from Chibnall for Red Nose Day; minimum effort, with a few meaningless made up words thrown in because sci-fi, not really worth the minute it takes to watch it.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:47:33 AM by olliebean »

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2440 on: March 16, 2019, 10:44:29 AM »
It's a real beginners-level 'this is what the rest of Doctor Who was like' 101 guide.

I actually really like things like this.  A few books of this nature came out for the 50th anniversary and I enjoy returning to them.  Similarly the various examinations of Doctor Who from the 10th anniversary onwards (eg Blue Peter, Pebble Mill and so on) that aim to introduce the show to a new audience.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2441 on: March 16, 2019, 01:16:50 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWBNgvtdR20

This seems pretty much what I'd expect from Chibnall for Red Nose Day; minimum effort, with a few meaningless made up words thrown in because sci-fi, not really worth the minute it takes to watch it.

Why is Doctor Who speaking exclusively to UK tax payers? That feels odd. We need to advertise Gift Aid, pretty much the only aspect of Comic Relief that specifically excludes children, let's get in Doctor Who.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2442 on: March 16, 2019, 02:24:31 PM »
Why would anyone even say 'no' to the gift aid option.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2443 on: March 19, 2019, 07:48:25 AM »
Why would anyone even say 'no' to the gift aid option.

They don't want money taken out of the tax system and given to a charity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_Aid#A_practical_example

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2444 on: March 19, 2019, 09:57:27 AM »
Just trying to think which Doctors wouldn't want money taken out of the tax system and given to a charity. The third Doctor, probably. And Seven, as part of some dark manipulative plan.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2445 on: March 19, 2019, 11:01:56 AM »
Just trying to think which Doctors wouldn't want money taken out of the tax system and given to a charity. The third Doctor, probably. And Seven, as part of some dark manipulative plan.

The Sixth Doctor because he is a cunt.  And series 8 Twelfth Doctor maybe.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2446 on: March 19, 2019, 11:18:31 AM »
That chain earring can get the fuck out.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2447 on: March 19, 2019, 12:12:56 PM »
That chain earring can get the fuck out.

*Sonic 2 is hastily rewritten*

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2448 on: March 21, 2019, 11:37:10 AM »
Season 12 updates vacuously re-posted from Gallifrey Base #2: Judging from recent night filming in Cardiff, the setting for one of the stories will be WWII Paris. And from the little that's visible beneath her coat, it looks like Jodie's costume is a bit different.





Thrills huh.

[edit: That's a fan with her there, don't worry, they haven't chucked Yaz.]
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 11:58:55 AM by Norton Canes »

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2449 on: March 21, 2019, 11:39:33 AM »
I'm still excited for the next series. It might be good! You never know. It might be. Maybe.

Norton Canes

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2450 on: March 21, 2019, 11:57:06 AM »
In spite of everything and frequently against my better judgement I am always excited by the prospect of the next season. When will I learn.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2451 on: March 21, 2019, 02:18:34 PM »
Season 12 updates vacuously re-posted from Gallifrey Base #2: Judging from recent night filming in Cardiff, the setting for one of the stories will be WWII Paris. And from the little that's visible beneath her coat, it looks like Jodie's costume is a bit different.





Thrills huh.

[edit: That's a fan with her there, don't worry, they haven't chucked Yaz.]

Should've spoiler tagged that mate. Clearly a weeping angel in the background. Also Homer Simpson's car to the right. Gonna be amazing.

Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2452 on: March 21, 2019, 02:20:15 PM »
Also, if this is the Omen then those two are about to get skewered Patrick Troughton style.

Mister Six

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2453 on: March 21, 2019, 02:23:47 PM »
I actually don't feel any excitement. I think Doom Patrol has filled that space in my heart now. It's got the same combination of irreverence, emotional impact and imagination as the best of Who, and it's not presently being written by someone who's as interesting as a beige ironing board.

Honestly if Who got cancelled now I think I'd shrug. Cancelled at the end of season 10 would have been a disaster, but at this point? Ehhh, it'll come back eventually. My only hope is that Chibnall's mediocrity emboldens people who would previously have been too scared to take over after Moffat.

Mister Six

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2454 on: March 21, 2019, 02:24:40 PM »
Season 12 updates vacuously re-posted from Gallifrey Base #2: Judging from recent night filming in Cardiff, the setting for one of the stories will be WWII Paris. And from the little that's visible beneath her coat, it looks like Jodie's costume is a bit different.





Thrills huh.

[edit: That's a fan with her there, don't worry, they haven't chucked Yaz.]

What the fuck is going on with those legs/that statue in the top left?

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2455 on: March 21, 2019, 02:27:07 PM »
Honestly if Who got cancelled now I think I'd shrug. Cancelled at the end of season 10 would have been a disaster, but at this point? Ehhh, it'll come back eventually. My only hope is that Chibnall's mediocrity emboldens people who would previously have been too scared to take over after Moffat.

I feel pretty much the same way, we got ten strong seasons (well, ten seasons with some strong episodes in them at least) which is far more than most genre shows last for before going to shit, and while I hope Chibnall leaves soon and we get at least one more showrunner before it's cancelled I wouldn't be upset if it were to happen.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2456 on: March 21, 2019, 02:55:28 PM »
Personally I would like it to carry on for at least as long as the original run and hopefully become just as shit towards the end. Ideally it would become even more shit than ever before, making its eventual third return even more triumphant.

Mister Six

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2457 on: March 21, 2019, 03:03:13 PM »
I feel pretty much the same way, we got ten strong seasons (well, ten seasons with some strong episodes in them at least) which is far more than most genre shows last for before going to shit, and while I hope Chibnall leaves soon and we get at least one more showrunner before it's cancelled I wouldn't be upset if it were to happen.

I think my feelings will switch back the moment it gets a good showrunner on board. Chalk it up to the power of Chibnall's mediocrity.

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Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2458 on: March 21, 2019, 03:12:37 PM »
What the fuck is going on with those legs/that statue in the top left?
I was thinking that!

~ (squints) ~ . . Could it be a painting of some legs that's leaning up against the wall?

Ooh . . . I wonder if they're doing the story of when they evacuated the paintings from the National Gallery?

Re: Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2)
« Reply #2459 on: March 21, 2019, 03:25:08 PM »
Evacuation of the Daleks.