Musicians who should have received co-composer credits

[Satchmo Distel]

If an instrumental part is very prominent on a record and was composed by the player, should that player not receive a composer royalty?

For example, Herbie Flowers on Walk On The Wild Side.

[iamcoop]

I'm sure I'm right in thinking even Johnny Marr admitted that Andy Rourke wrote the bassline to Well I Wonder which to me is such a key component to that track it deserves some publishing points at the very least.

[a duncandisorderly]

"this song would be nothing without my bassline..."

"yeah, but I wrote the chords knowing you'd come up with a bassline like that, so effectively I wrote it by creating the space into which it fits"

fuck it, guys, just split it equally.

[Kane Jones]

Andy Summers for Every Breath You Take. He wrote the guitar part.

[The Culture Bunker]

I'm sure I'm right in thinking even Johnny Marr admitted that Andy Rourke wrote the bassline to Well I Wonder which to me is such a key component to that track it deserves some publishing points at the very least.

Stephen Street reckons Rourke got screwed out of being credited on "Barbarism Begins at Home" too.

On the "bassists being done over by the main songwriters", didn't Bill Wyman suffer the same fate over one or two Stones numbers?

[Satchmo Distel]

How about Steve Nieve or Bruce Thomas on various Elvis Costello And The Attractions tracks? 

George Harrison on some Lennon and Mac, but then they contributed a lot to tunes for which Harrison got all the publishing, like Taxman. Eric Clapton deserves something for While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Here Comes The Sun.

Harrison also arguably ripped off the Indian musicians on his tracks.

George Martin? Middle 8 of In My Life?

[SteveDave]

On the "bassists being done over by the main songwriters", didn't Bill Wyman suffer the same fate over one or two Stones numbers?

Apparently he was playing the "Jumpin' Jack Flash" riff on a piano as Mick and Keith walked into a recording studio and then wrote the song around it. They've got form for doing that throughout their career. There's a  few "inspired by..." credits on their 70s LPs.

[daf]

Rita Coolidge on Layla - her boyfriend Jim Gordon, the drummer, nicked the piano bit from one of her demos, and got the credit (and half the loot!) *

Rita Coolidge - Time

- - - - - -
*(Currently in clink for murdering his mum - but THIS, surely, was his greatest crime!)

[famethrowa]

George Harrison on some Lennon and Mac, but then they contributed a lot to tunes for which Harrison got all the publishing, like Taxman. Eric Clapton deserves something for While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Here Comes The Sun.

Harrison also arguably ripped off the Indian musicians on his tracks.

George also got a little fella in to demo the Moog synth, recorded it, and passed it off as his own composition. Luckily no-one bought it though!

Rita Coolidge on Layla - her boyfriend Jim Gordon, the drummer, nicked the piano bit from one of her demos, and got the credit (and half the loot!) *

Rita Coolidge - Time

Wow! Never knew that. That is just plain RUDE

[a duncandisorderly]

George also got a little fella in to demo the Moog synth, recorded it, and passed it off as his own composition. Luckily no-one bought it though!

>>Krause claimed that the demonstration was recorded without his knowledge and nor would he have given his consent, since his playing included ideas he intended to develop on the next Beaver & Krause album. Krause's name was originally included on the front cover of Electronic Sound, under Harrison's, but it was painted over at Krause's insistence.[14] The words "Bernie Krause" were nevertheless visible under the silver ink on original LP pressings..<<

this act cost harrison any sympathy he'd've got from me over the later "he's so fine" spat. he basically stole from krause.

[marquis_de_sad]

Apparently he was playing the "Jumpin' Jack Flash" riff on a piano as Mick and Keith walked into a recording studio and then wrote the song around it. They've got form for doing that throughout their career. There's a  few "inspired by..." credits on their 70s LPs.

One of the reasons Mick Taylor has given for leaving the Stones is the lack of songwriting credits for anyone not surnamed Jagger or Richards:

We used to fight and argue all the time. And one of the things I got angry about was that Mick had promised to give me some credit for some of the songs – and he didn't. I believed I'd contributed enough. Let's put it this way – without my contribution those songs would not have existed. There's not many but enough, things like "Sway" and "Moonlight Mile" on Sticky Fingers and a couple of others.

[a duncandisorderly]

One of the reasons Mick Taylor has given for leaving the Stones is the lack of songwriting credits for anyone not surnamed Jagger or Richards:

which is, ultimately, why so many of the mooted replacements for him- whether they 'auditioned' or not- stayed away. rory gallagher would not have enjoyed being in the stones.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Dave Davies claims to have written much of the musical structure for 'Lola', as well as making many other substantial musical contributions to other songs that weren't credited.

Levon Helm says that he contributed enough to lyric and general concept of 'The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down' to warrant a credit, the fact that he never received one would irreparably sour the relationship between him and Robbie Robertson.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Also this one is a near-miss because it worked out in the end, but John Cale recently claimed that Lou Reed wanted to take Cale's name off of the credits for 'Songs For Drella', and that this sparked another falling out, making you wonder about when else was he screwed out of credit

[a duncandisorderly]

which is, ultimately, why so many of the mooted replacements for him- whether they 'auditioned' or not- stayed away. rory gallagher would not have enjoyed being in the stones.

seeing fame's avatar there has got me wondering if, in this universe or a parallel one, mr fripp was even considered for a role with the stones...

[famethrowa]

seeing fame's avatar there has got me wondering if, in this universe or a parallel one, mr fripp was even considered for a role with the stones...

Well I guess at least Keef wouldn't have been able to nick his licks? Wouldn't be able to play em

[mojo filters]

Another blatant Smiths one - assuming Andy Rourke wrote the amazing driving bass line on What She Said, he definitely deserved a co-writing credit.

Much as I appreciate Johnny Marr, when asked about the dodgy money splits during the Smiths, he notably seems to deflect or infer it was Morrissey who was responsible for the dubious contractual situation. Whilst that might be true, it's not like he was subsequently obliged to adhere to it - as he did in defending the Mike Joyce case alongside Morrissey.

[sweeper]

For example, Herbie Flowers on Walk On The Wild Side.

And Mark Ronson for the whole of Transformer, especially 'Perfect Day', which is nothing without his strings and piano.

[SteveDave]

Mick. Surely Mick?

[PaulTMA]

Musicians who contributed integral parts but didn't do any actual songwriting then

[The Culture Bunker]

Musicians who contributed integral parts but didn't do any actual songwriting then

Yes, I do think there's been a mix up between:

a) someone adding their own part to an already written (in terms of the chord structure) song. Which no matter how amazing it is, doesn't entitle you to a slice of the pie.*
b) someone coming up with a riff/progression, only to have their already established bandmates lift it for their own.

*notable exception: Nick Lowe splitting the cash for "I Love the Sound of Breaking Glass" three ways with the rhythm section from the Rumour because he thought their groove "made" the song.

[Panbaams]

John Barry, for turning this into this.

[PaulTMA]

Yes, I do think there's been a mix up between:

a) someone adding their own part to an already written (in terms of the chord structure) song. Which no matter how amazing it is, doesn't entitle you to a slice of the pie.*
b) someone coming up with a riff/progression, only to have their already established bandmates lift it for their own.

*notable exception: Nick Lowe splitting the cash for "I Love the Sound of Breaking Glass" three ways with the rhythm section from the Rumour because he thought their groove "made" the song.

The reverse is true with Queen, for instance Freddie Mercury played a part in Radio Ga Ga and A Kind Of Magic but they are credited solely to Roger Taylor due their rule about the original writer taking the credit (which they scrapped for the last two 'all songs by Queen' albums).  Which doesn't fully explain why they had some co-credits along the way, unless of course those few songs were written from scratch by two of them together.  Pretty sure Brian May had some input into Bohemian Rhapsody and some of Freddie's other early songs, but that was just the way they operated I guess.  Would Andy Summers be wanting to sue if Every Breath You Take didn't become this immortally huge hit single?

[DrGreggles]

The reverse is true with Queen, for instance Freddie Mercury played a part in Radio Ga Ga and A Kind Of Magic but they are credited solely to Roger Taylor due their rule about the original writer taking the credit (which they scrapped for the last two 'all songs by Queen' albums).  Which doesn't fully explain why they had some co-credits along the way, unless of course those few songs were written from scratch by two of them together.  Pretty sure Brian May had some input into Bohemian Rhapsody and some of Freddie's other early songs, but that was just the way they operated I guess. 

I think 'blame' is more the word for writing Queen songs, rather than 'credit'.

[thraxx]

I think 'blame' is more the word for writing Queen songs, rather than 'credit'.

I needed a Friday morning lol and you provided it.

[MidnightShambler]

One of the reasons Mick Taylor has given for leaving the Stones is the lack of songwriting credits for anyone not surnamed Jagger or Richards:

He definitely should have got a credit for 'Sway', the song is nothing without his fucking amazing guitar, Keith doesn't even play on it at all (as far as I know) so that one seems unfair. But Moonlight Mile is a bit of a stretch, there's a lot going on in that song that's got fuck all to do with him.

Probably should have got one for Time Waits Fo No One as well, that's pretty much his thing too. But two, possibly three tracks off 5 albums is not exactly much to still be bitter about. Although admittedly I'm not the one who hasn't received the royalties off two multi-million selling albums so what the fuck do I know!!

[Jockice]

Fuck it, guys, just split it equally.

How many bands do that though? Offhand I can only think of Pulp, The Housemartins/Beautiful South and UB40 who did that. And possibly The Fall, although I find that somehow hard to believe.

I like the idea of it but there are bound to be some tensions arising that will come out eventually. Part of the reason Russell Senior left Pulp was he felt he wasn't getting enough credit for his part in the band, even though he was making as much money as the others, Paul Heaton has described the former BS members who formed The South as  'scabs' and we should all know what happened to UB40 by now. If you don't, I'd recommend looking up the Promise And Lies documentary on i-player or youtube. Most of the band (or bands as they now) are interviewed but one absentee is Norman Hassan. I mean, what did he actually do in the group? Maybe he was a studio/songwriting whizz kid but all we ever saw was him wandering around on stage with one of those shaker things in his hand. Nice work if you can get it.

[The Culture Bunker]

How many bands do that though? Offhand I can only think of Pulp, The Housemartins/Beautiful South and UB40 who did that. And possibly The Fall, although I find that somehow hard to believe.

I like the idea of it but there are bound to be some tensions arising that will come out eventually. Part of the reason Russell Senior left Pulp was he felt he wasn't getting enough credit for his part in the band, even though he was making as much money as the others, Paul Heaton has described the former BS members who formed The South as  'scabs' and we should all know what happened to UB40 by now. If you don't, I'd recommend looking up the Promise And Lies documentary on i-player or youtube. Most of the band (or bands as they now) are interviewed but one absentee is Norman Hassan. I mean, what did he actually do in the group? Maybe he was a studio/songwriting whizz kid but all we ever saw was him wandering around on stage with one of those shaker things in his hand. Nice work if you can get it.

I think the Cure did, after "The Head on the Door", but even then they had a rotating cast list.

And in an even more unusual example, I read Dave Grohl did pretty much everything on the first Foo Fighters album but split the cash between the people that made up the subsequent band that promoted it. What a guy.

[Jockice]

I think the Cure did, after "The Head on the Door", but even then they had a rotating cast list.

Surprised they even paid Lol Tolhurst. Apparently he was so pissed most of the time he was oblivious to everything .

[LynnBenfield69]

I've heard that Coldplay split everything equally and that's why they've been fairly huge since I can remember. Recipe for success that. Probably Muse too, at a guess. Shit for cunts, eh?