Author Topic: The Royal British Legion  (Read 2623 times)

Petey Pate

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The Royal British Legion
« on: November 08, 2018, 11:48:48 PM »
This article by Aaron Bastani has caused a bt of a stir, even attracting the ire of Tom Watson.

https://novaramedia.com/2018/11/08/unless-the-british-legion-calls-for-transformational-change-it-should-disband-veterans-deserve-better/

Disregarding my own views on nationalism, the politics of memory and war - I think its central point is perfectly reasonable. If care for veterans has to be subsidised by charities, then said charities should apply more political pressure to ensure veterans receive adequate treatment. A common trope said around armistice day is that you shouldn't 'politicise remembrance' (what war has ever been apolitical?) but opposing universal credit and tackling homelessness are pertinent causes if the mental health and well being of ex serviceman and woman is to be improved. The article shows a better grasp of the intent of remembrance than converting a front lawn to a minature no man's land or making a poppy out of bacon.

BlodwynPig

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2018, 11:52:26 PM »
Here, here. To article and response. The numbers are staggering (on the income side, and the veteran homeless/mental health front). Enough is enough.

biggytitbo

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2018, 06:26:33 AM »

Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2018, 06:55:50 AM »
But isn't this the same for every Charity? Money is raised and significant lot doesn't find its way to the 'cause'.

Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2018, 07:31:24 AM »
I haven't read the article but I did watch his piece on Novara that preceded it and the issues are more complex than the money not filtering down in a given charity.

For instance he also talked about the increasing outsourcing of government responsibilities to charity/third sector and thus the state absolving itself of some very basic duties, in this case the ongoing care of those who have paid huge prices after volunteering to defend that state.

Bastani mentioned the Atlee quote "Charity is a cold grey loveless thing...." a few times. I think he means that we should, as a society, be better organised to look after those in need, and not have to rely on someone waving a charity box on a high street having some small change thrown in.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2018, 07:34:24 AM »
Aside of disaster relief, a repeating issue, the central aim of a charity should be to not exist, its mission having been accomplished. Lots of missions of course so that is a more difficult aim for some.

Instead some of them use funding to diversify and "grow the brand". The neoliberal state loves this because it absolves them of a series of responsibilities. Food banks, homeless charities, legal aid, all stepping in where the state has failed.

If it weren't for the human cost it would be better to hang the state out to dry and force them to adhere to their responsibilities.

biggytitbo

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2018, 08:09:03 AM »
Whatever well intentioned elements remain, the whole poppy industry has long been coopted as a jingoistic, bullying PR arm of a media and political culture addicted to starting and profiting from wars, rather than preventing them.

Buelligan

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2018, 09:04:10 AM »
I think the poppy thing's a bit like religion.  You get people, completely righteous pacific people, who wear the poppy with love as silent passing bells to remember and honour all the poor lads (mostly) that died as cattle.  And to say that this can never happen again, not whilst memory lives.

And you get arseholes, they are everywhere that humans are, who treat it like a combination of red nose day and Jane Elliot's Riceville eye lesson because they are shallow and caught in ego and miss the point entirely (mostly).  And some, worse still, who try to profit off of it (in money or power). 

Just like religion.  But this is humans.  Humans are corrupted but they are also beautiful too, the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals.  We must choose our path with care on this sterile cunting promontory.   

biggytitbo

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2018, 09:10:28 AM »
It's like Christmas for some people -


Buelligan

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2018, 09:15:52 AM »
You can judge people's taste but reading their hearts is harder.  I don't do Christmas or birthdays myself.

Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2018, 09:25:41 AM »
Whatever well intentioned elements remain, the whole poppy industry has long been coopted as a jingoistic, bullying PR arm of a media and political culture addicted to starting and profiting from wars, rather than preventing them.

No not "whatever well intentioned elements remain"....the well intentioned bits are worth more than your fucking lazy dismissal, they were appropriated, they belong to us and all sensible people that recognise that WWI was a disaster for largely poor masses that were marched to their death.  It isn't enough biggy to just twist this into another one of your grand conspiracy brain farts (the whole poppy industry ffs listen to yourself).

We don't have to sacrifice the well meaning elements on the altar the jingoists created.

Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2018, 09:27:54 AM »
Poppy industry got a big laugh out of me to be honest.

Buelligan

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2018, 09:33:49 AM »
You should try the really pure stuff.

im barry bethel

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2018, 09:37:19 AM »
No not "whatever well intentioned elements remain"....the well intentioned bits are worth more than your fucking lazy dismissal, they were appropriated, they belong to us and all sensible people that recognise that WWI was a disaster for largely poor masses that were marched to their death.  It isn't enough biggy to just twist this into another one of your grand conspiracy brain farts (the whole poppy industry ffs listen to yourself).

We don't have to sacrifice the well meaning elements on the altar the jingoists created.

You forgot the bit where you tell titbo people died so he could have the freedom to say that

Petey Pate

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2018, 09:38:03 AM »
Poppy industry got a big laugh out of me to be honest.

The opium trade is surprisingly passionate about the war dead.

Petey Pate

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2018, 09:39:28 AM »
Aside of disaster relief, a repeating issue, the central aim of a charity should be to not exist, its mission having been accomplished. Lots of missions of course so that is a more difficult aim for some.

Instead some of them use funding to diversify and "grow the brand". The neoliberal state loves this because it absolves them of a series of responsibilities. Food banks, homeless charities, legal aid, all stepping in where the state has failed.

If it weren't for the human cost it would be better to hang the state out to dry and force them to adhere to their responsibilities.

I wonder how many gammons who get irate every year over the latest asinine poppy controversy would be happy if the British Legion was nationalised and the government introduces some kind of 'remembrance tax' in its place. In theory they should love it, as they profess to care so much about the war dead and injured veterans.

Alternatively, the government could outsource defence spending to charities so citizens have the option to help fund the military if they want to. Who knows, Britain might win more wars with this approach.

Buelligan

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2018, 09:43:19 AM »
That last paragraph made me laugh, what a super idea!  And the Brits, with their old wartime spirit, knitting their own Trident.  Love it.

Blumf

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2018, 09:46:39 AM »
It's like Christmas for some people -



What you're not seeing is the house across the road has a line of pointy helmeted Krauts manning a howitzer.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2018, 09:47:17 AM »
No not "whatever well intentioned elements remain"....the well intentioned bits are worth more than your fucking lazy dismissal, they were appropriated, they belong to us and all sensible people that recognise that WWI was a disaster for largely poor masses that were marched to their death.  It isn't enough biggy to just twist this into another one of your grand conspiracy brain farts (the whole poppy industry ffs listen to yourself).

We don't have to sacrifice the well meaning elements on the altar the jingoists created.

I'm afraid it has become an industry, a new Halloween, with endless tacky merchandise and cheap Chinese produced tat, as well as the annual parade of poppy fascism from cunts. We all as individuals are quite capable of remembering the cruel sacrifice of young men in WW1 with internal reflection, as it used to be until recent years, without endorsing or having to take part in the tawdry spectacle it has become today.


Also what conspiracy? What are you talking about?

Buelligan

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2018, 09:49:09 AM »
Biggytitbo is 198.

Also -

...cheap Chinese produced tat...

*looks askance*

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2018, 09:54:05 AM »
At least the cookie monster remembers our dead boys in his quite, dignified way -


Buelligan

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2018, 09:57:31 AM »
Bigs, do you ever read or think about, any one else's posts?  Asking for a friend.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Got to be getting his head on that for me Gary
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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2018, 01:04:44 PM »
I think the poppy thing's a bit like religion.  You get people, completely righteous pacific people, who wear the poppy with love as silent passing bells to remember and honour all the poor lads (mostly) that died as cattle.  And to say that this can never happen again, not whilst memory lives.

And you get arseholes, they are everywhere that humans are, who treat it like a combination of red nose day and Jane Elliot's Riceville eye lesson because they are shallow and caught in ego and miss the point entirely (mostly).  And some, worse still, who try to profit off of it (in money or power). 

Just like religion.  But this is humans.  Humans are corrupted but they are also beautiful too, the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals.  We must choose our path with care on this sterile cunting promontory.

Excellent reflection.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Got to be getting his head on that for me Gary
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2018, 01:08:34 PM »
I earned a VETERANS DAY badge on Untappd, for checking in a beer to the app on this the holiest of days.

HONOR those who SERVED

Unfortunately for them I don't believe we have conscription at the moment so I'll honour those who fought totalitarianism and pity those who were drafted into political wars and shun those who voluntarily join the death squads we send to protect our corporate interests.

Biggy is right in saying that one blanket emotional response we are coerced to feel for all soldiers is a by-product of a basically sick country that needs gestures to prop up the gaping vaccum of morality involved in its contemporary military ventures.

biggytitbo

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    • theunredacted
Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2018, 01:11:28 PM »
Remember -


amnesiac

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2018, 01:11:34 PM »
you think the vets have got it bad? EVERY year at this time they construct grandstand seating next to St Pauls for some march past I guess and it blocks off a key access route I need to get to work.

saltysnacks

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2018, 01:12:18 PM »
I certainly have respect for WWII veterans, but I have no respect for the military today. Why are they seen as more important than nurses or binmen? We need to seriously rethink our priorities when the hired killers are seen as more important than actually useful occupations.

(Of course, nobody should have to rely on a charity to get by)

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2018, 01:13:22 PM »

biggytitbo

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    • theunredacted
Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2018, 01:15:32 PM »
I certainly have respect for WWII veterans, but I have no respect for the military today. Why are they seen as more important than nurses or binmen? We need to seriously rethink our priorities when the hired killers are seen as more important than actually useful occupations.

(Of course, nobody should have to rely on a charity to get by)


The British government are spending £50m on remembrance events whilst actively helping our despotic ally Saudi Arabia murder innocent civilians in the Yemen 'war'.


#remember

amnesiac

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Re: The Royal British Legion
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2018, 01:16:52 PM »
^ yes

Just want the cigar-shaped alien spaceship to come down and wipe us all out really.