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Cream - what is Ginger Baker on about?

Started by Shit Good Nose, November 12, 2018, 02:57:42 PM

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Shit Good Nose

Make this a general Cream thread if you want, but first of all I wondered if anyone might be able to explain this to me...

Was watching a(n okayish) doc about Cream last night, and Ginger Baker mentioned several times a video his daughter showed him just prior to the 2005 reunion shows in which Jack Bruce said something which greatly upset him (he was visibly upset just mentioning it) and made him hate Bruce even more than he already did.  But he never elaborated.  Does anyone know what video he's talking about and what Jack Bruce said about him? 

He also mentioned "outright lies" in Chris Welch's biography of the band, but again didn't elaborate - anyone know what those lies were?  (I'm not going to waste any time or money on anything written by Chris Welch)


More generally, I like Cream.

NoSleep

What Bruce said can't be worse than Baker pulling a knife on him early after they met, while both working in the Graham Bond Organisation. In the documentary made shortly before Bruce died he said that he wasn't sure if Baker living in South Africa ("two continents away") was far enough distance between them on this planet.

It was Clapton's idea to call in Baker & Bruce for Cream, oblivious to the bad blood between them, which never really went away (didn't last long, did they?) Add to that Baker's bitterness over Bruce's dominance in the songwriting for Cream (which turned out to be the lucrative stake in the band in the long run).

NoSleep

The Jazz Britannia documentary was around the same time as the Cream reunion but I don't recall Bruce bringing any bad blood up at that juncture. He did say that Cream (live, I presume) were the Ornette Coleman Trio but he and Baker "didn't bother to tell Eric".


Shit Good Nose

Nup, already read that and there's no mention of it.  I already know everything else you've written above, but this was the first I'd heard about a video of Bruce saying something.  The way Baker talked about it made it sound like it was a commercially available one rather than just a home video.

I've googled but nada.

It's the Sky Arts Classic Artists doc narrated by Russ Williams.  Baker mentions the video two or three times at different junctures.

NoSleep

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on November 12, 2018, 05:16:15 PM
Nup, already read that and there's no mention of it.

I know, but I don't think there's ever going to be conclusion to this. Those two were simply upset about the other existing. As I said, maybe there's something in Jazz Britannia but I don't remember; with those two it could be anything.

Shit Good Nose

Baker begrudgingly holding onto life just so he doesn't bump into Bruce in death.

Although, oddly, the older and more physically decrepit Baker gets, the more mentally lucid he becomes.  Even now his recall of tinpot places he played in the early 60s (when he was a full on junkie) is astonishing.

Mini

He's probably just bullshitting, when I saw him play a few months ago he claimed to have invented the Rolling Stones.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Mini on November 14, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
He's probably just bullshitting, when I saw him play a few months ago he claimed to have invented the Rolling Stones.

Well, I could believe that (especially as he thinks he's a better drummer than Bonzo), but the emotion in his voice and on his face every time he brought it up was obviously genuine.

I also noted from the doc that Jack Bruce was very passive-aggressive, handing out harsh personal criticism with a smile and that soft Scottish tone.

Both as bad as each other, I know.