Topic: Extinction Rebellion

[MoonDust]

Surprised there's not been a thread on this yet, although apologies if I missed it.

Basically a group spawned in the UK taking to direct action to affect change in policy to mitigate climate change.

Website here:

https://rebellion.earth/

Today they blocked all major bridges in London to draw attention to the threat climate change poses to earth and our species.

They genuinely believe we're headed for extinction unless we do something about climate change.

Clearly they think things like the Paris Accord are not enough. And frankly, I agree.

Climate scientists with the UN have warned us we have 12 years to stop climate change seriously fucking things up beyond repair. They say such a thing can only be avoided if we drastically rethink things.

Personally I think such change requires full scale revolution and that global capitalism, in particular with the fossil fuel industry, is the cause of this mess. But on the other hand it's not guaranteed capitalism will be smashed and consigned to history in the next 12 years so I bloody hope I'm wrong and somehow this can be solved whilst capitalism is still around.

For one thing I think if we want to seriously get our heads together and figure out 1) how to stop climate change and 2) come up with viable green alternatives for energy (such as maybe cracking fusion technology) then governments need to fund science with a war-like mentality. I.e. in times of war, science funding was vastly restricted to things that helped win the war. With ww2 such funding was concentrated mostly on the atomic bomb and building the computer.

Well, I think we need the same mentality now to tackle climate disaster and save ourselves. I know it goes against the ethos of scientific orthodoxy but honestly, I believe we don't have the time or luxury to be bothering with things like the hadron collider or sending probes to mars. We have bigger fish to fry.

There needs to be some sort of revolution at least in the way we think about science and what its place is in society.

Perhaps Extinction Rebellion is a nucleus for a new movement to change this. I dunno. All I know is we need climate action N O W. Otherwise we're all fucked beyond comprehension. Perhaps I dare say that Brexit or Trump are not important at all when you're literally talking about the extinction of the human race, or at least the deaths of untold numbers if the global ecology collapses.

We're already in the midst of the 6th mass extinction event, and we could go down with the rest of the other species.




Sorry to bum you out on a Saturday night. I'll make a fart joke maybe later on in the thread. Something to do with greenhouse gases and methane.

Thoughts?

[Mr_Simnock]

They genuinely believe we're headed for extinction unless we do something about climate change.

I don't think we are headed for extinction but unless certain farming practices are curtailed and the earth does indeed continue to get hotter I do fully expect a famine so large and sever it will make anything before it look like totally insignificant and possibly wipe out at least a couple billion people.

[MoonDust]

I don't think we are headed for extinction but unless certain farming practices are curtailed and the earth does indeed continue to get hotter I do fully expect a famine so large and sever it will make anything before it look like totally insignificant and possibly wipe out at least a couple billion people.

Exactly. And of course this won't be just consigned to a vacuum. The famines and other physical effects from global warming will cause unimaginable numbers of refugees for the survivors. You're talking economies collapsing, governments collapsing, wars breaking out. The secondary deaths from this alone will run into the millions. It'll be a domino effect of horror and misery.

[Mr_Simnock]

This has been on my mind for a bit especially after having read about the collapse of some insects around the world which could have a massive impact if that continues.

[MoonDust]

As to the extinction of the human race. I don't know. It's hard to gauge.

I think what's overlooked is the little critters. Bees for example.

Without sounding callous a lot of the endangered species in the large mammal group we can live without. Polar bears, pandas, orangutan. Fucking tragic if they go, but it won't massively disrupt the ecosystem.

Insects though. If bees for example go extinct you can say goodbye to most crops we take for granted. And again, here's our famine. Not to mention the ripple effect bee's extinction will have on other animals in the food chain that rely on the plants they pollinate. Who knows, maybe that could cause humans to become extinct too. We may be tech savvy but at the end of the day we still rely on nature to give us food. We are still part of the food chain. But I'm no ecologist.

It's fucking terrifying to think of. And no one seems to be seriously doing anything. If all this is inevitable you would think oil will become banned overnight.

Edit; you mentioned insects as I was typing.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Planet is fucked within my generation (I'm 32), basically anyone who has had a kid is a short-sighted moron or selfish.

[MoonDust]

Planet is fucked within my generation (I'm 32), basically anyone who has had a kid is a short-sighted moron or selfish.

I don't agree with the whole anti-natalism. We shouldn't be willing ourselves into extinction by stopping reproducing. Plus that'll never happen anyway. You also forget that not everyone has a child through choice.

We need new generations to either a) save the planet in the future or b) continue preserving it if we reverse things and save it now and learn from the errors of the fossil fuel age.

But on the other hand under current global capitalism and the rate of consumption that entails, and the misery that entails, I do think "why the fuck would you bring a child into this world?" from time to time.

But then I try and remain hopeful. We shouldn't give ourselves into despair. Things look fucking bleak but that should be a reason to fight for change, not give up.

[Sebastian Cobb]

This isn't some grand 'anti-natalism' concept. I'm not sure the planet is sustainable within my lifetime; how can you in good faith bring someone else into this world with that looming over you?

[manticore]

I just gave Extinction Rebellion a tiny bit of money but I'm uncertain by looking at different things they write about how much emphasis they put on the species depletion Moondust talks about above. I believe climate change is likely to kill a large proportion of the human population, but species depletion will wipe out every large mammal on the planet if it's not stopped.

Anyway, the BBC...



If you want to support them:

https://fundrazr.com/ExtinctionRebellion?ref=ab_577HUd_ab_4wOeV8KSR7M4wOeV8KSR7M

[Small Man Big Horse]

This isn't some grand 'anti-natalism' concept. I'm not sure the planet is sustainable within my lifetime; how can you in good faith bring someone else into this world with that looming over you?

I'm with you on this. I've asked friends with children that very question and the general reply was "Ah, I try not to think about that". Which is all kinds of bleak. And whilst I don't think humanity will become extinct, the next 100 years at the very least are going to be horrendously shitty ones.

Still, I'm 44 so by the time everything becomes shockingly depressing I'll be old enough to kill myself and people will say "Well, he lived a vaguely okay life to a decent enough age". Hooray!

[Bhazor]

If you want to support them:

https://fundrazr.com/ExtinctionRebellion?ref=ab_577HUd_ab_4wOeV8KSR7M4wOeV8KSR7M

Well one big difference is that the fuel protest involves at least 125,000 people across France (BBC uses high end estimate of 280,000) causing a nationwide gridlock. While Extinction involves less than 6000 who blocked a bridge for about two hours.

The other big difference and the reason that BBC gave it the headline was that a protestor was killed.

But y'know. BBC. Neoliberal. Warmonger. Corporate. Slippery slope. Censorship. Can't say that these days. 

[Kryton]

I read somewhere that we have about three-four generations left before everything really does become terrible. And that was about ten years ago.

Honestly fucking banking on off-planet colony survival and the life-saving ventures of the space venturing sector. Even if they are tech-bro's or whatever. Give the planet some time to rest. Get at least one third of the planet via whatever means, off the planet. But that's probably some 'male' elitist fantasy. A man of my ilk would be elected a Terra-remainer by default I reckon. Social status and all. Even though I voted for Mars.

The eco-system is fucked as a result of plastic and deforestation.

Biggytitbo once commented that the 90's was shit, but we had the very best climate change agreements and such. Now that seems to me a thirty six year old man like a weird dream shat on by Trump.

Shoulders(?) cynically called me naive when I agreed that some corporations/businesses are highlighting such things as palm oil and deforestation, but since then I've seen a ton of increased reaction to said adverts on social media, which kinda means it's hit a nerve of some sort. Not everyone is as super-smart as Shoulders.

It's good to see passive action and reactions to this issue as a result of said marketing. Naivete aside. We live in the last generation or two of the great barrier reef. But we live in the most wonderful age of global communication.

There's still a chance I reckon, but this is the last generation or two to do it.

[Twit 2]

My gut instinct is that things are going to get very bad very soon. It could genuinely get a bit post-apocalyptic. There’s been little difference between the dystopian worlds in fiction and our own for a while, so no reason why we can’t have a bit of post-apocalyptic shenanigans IRL. I’m quite haunted by the methodical break down of society that Stephen King depicts in The Stand and the horror of the marauding gangs in The Road. Those two are a bit too uncomfortably close to my own estimation of how human nature would operate in such a landscape.

Also, rather disconcertingly, we have too many examples of real hellholes where humanity has utterly debased itself in the ruins - concentration camps, famines, war zones - to remind us what we’ll be looking forward to. We’re used to seeing a cunt of a tsunami wipe out unfortunates in the tropics, or some kiddy hospital shelled into oblivion. That’s a shame, we think. But we’ll think again when it’s happening ever other day, and in Bracknell.

When the bikers come to rape me with barbed wire, tell them I’m out.

[BlodwynPig]

I don't think we are headed for extinction but unless certain farming practices are curtailed and the earth does indeed continue to get hotter I do fully expect a famine so large and sever it will make anything before it look like totally insignificant and possibly wipe out at least a couple billion people.

Famine is not the big issue, it is water and sanitation. Over 2 billion people worldwide without access to basic sanitation. We still produce far more food than is consumed (1/3 of food produced is wasted). About twice as much in developed countries than in developing countries, but still significant amounts in the poorer regions of the world. Climate change impacts all of this, of course, so..."joined up thinking and action" needed.

[JesusAndYourBush]

I don't agree with the whole anti-natalism. We shouldn't be willing ourselves into extinction by stopping reproducing.

The reason global warming exists is because there's too many people on the Earth. (The gases and heat they produce and the infrastructure needed to support them*).

Plus we need to stop making plastic and discover a way to destroy the plastic that's in the oceans.



*Whenever anyone brings up the topic of there being too many people, some twit always pipes up saying there's plenty of room on the planet, pointing to the vast areas of land where there's not much happening, big areas of America etc where you can drive for miles in a straight line through a whole lot of nothing.  It's not about having room, it's about the infrastructure.

[chveik]

It's impossible to know exactly what's going to happen next, but in any case it's time to abandon all hope. Even if we can change a few things, the sheer amount of crises is too enormous to prevent mankind's end in a few decades/a century (climate change, overpopulation, mass extinctions, water wars, refugees crisis etc.) I'm afraid that baby boomers have a lot to answer for.

[manticore]

Well one big difference is that the fuel protest involves at least 125,000 people across France (BBC uses high end estimate of 280,000) causing a nationwide gridlock. While Extinction involves less than 6000 who blocked a bridge for about two hours.

The other big difference and the reason that BBC gave it the headline was that a protestor was killed.

But y'know. BBC. Neoliberal. Warmonger. Corporate. Slippery slope. Censorship. Can't say that these days.

Bhazor, I've noticed over the years that you often almost systematically don't read (or maybe skim read) threads or posts before answering them, but just use them as a springboard to spiel with half-baked rhetoric about whatever pet topic is in your head.

As Monbiot said in those quoted tweets, the protesters blocked off five bridges, at least one of them for four hours. The protest wasn't a complaint about rising fuel prices in another country, it was here, and it was about a movement trying to do something to prevent a world catastrophe. The BBC website has its story under local London news.

The BBC has a terrible record on covering the problem of climate change and ecological disaster, which is easily the most important subject there is. It admits the problem here, and seems to have only just begun to address it:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/07/bbc-we-get-climate-change-coverage-wrong-too-often

What the hell has this got to do with "Neoliberal. Warmonger. Corporate. Slippery slope. Censorship. Can't say that these days."?

Maybe re-read what Monbiot said and think about it.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Exactly. And of course this won't be just consigned to a vacuum. The famines and other physical effects from global warming will cause unimaginable numbers of refugees for the survivors. You're talking economies collapsing, governments collapsing, wars breaking out. The secondary deaths from this alone will run into the millions. It'll be a domino effect of horror and misery.

There's a strong argument that this is already happening, and that climate-related changes in the Middle East are a direct or indirect cause of the "refugee crisis" and (arguably) the descent of Western democracies into fascist xenophobia over the last few years.

[MoonDust]

I understand what Kryton says about moving a chunk of the population to another planet. But I can't help but feel that's a cop-out and abandoning responsibility here.

Like I said, science funding should be diverted. The amount of money pumped into various space programmes could be pumped into green energy research, even fusion technology. As a side note, if we crack fusion technology that could literally stop global warming overnight. It's so powerful as an energy source you could (hypothetically) transition the entire planet away from fossil fuels overnight.

Similarly CERN. I honestly think that if we fail to stop climate disaster, future generations will look back at us in the mid 2000s and think we were fucking insane, blind, and selfish to be spending billions from multiple country's budgets on a giant magnet to see if a particle may or may not exist, when the world was already warning up. And they'd be right.

People say war is a driver for technology. But it's not true per se. The reason why war results in better tech is because in a war economy, effectively free market economics stops happening. Instead, governments in effect nationalise industry and plan the economy for the war effort. The technological advances from a planned economy can be remarkable. We should be doing that in peace time.

The amount of genuinely pointless research that money is being thrown at by government budgets is astonishing. Meaningless stuff like "we've made a bendy electronic device you can wear and monitors your heart rate". Yeah, so what? There's a planet dying outside your window.

As I said, against the grain of scientific spirit but I think research for research sake has to be put to be bed for now whilst we solve the climate problem. Once we (hopefully) save the planet from destruction we can do what we want. But until then...




But to play my own devil's advocate, I guess we need a plan B if we fail to save the planet, so maybe Mars research is still useful. But still, there are so many science projects out there which in the middle of a global emergency are simply not important and funding needs to be stopped and diverted elsewhere.

[Gregory Torso]

It's extremely depressing. I mean, much as I love being called a moronic piece of shit for starting a family with a woman I love, for opening up the bee hive and letting my crotch insects swarm out into the world, and I am a piece of unwashed taint, I don't deny this, I have to agree that this is all looking very grim.

Chinese Uighur death camps going on and everyone is just talking about Theresa May's jewellery, rising superpower doesn't give a fuck about endangered animals, coral reefs, cutting the faces off deer to make cock spurt medicine, shooting piss cannons into the atmosphere just to piss off trump trump trump HARD BANANAS IN BREXIT. Fucking sick off it. And yes I am drunk at 10 o'clock on a Sunday what are you going to call my mum, hoist me up on a cross under the horse-bitten worm-addled moon and beat me to death with a Chuck Palahniuk hardback.

I love my wife and son, they are literally the only reason I go on living in any capacity and before I had sex and made babby walk and talk mauybe we should have thought about it BUT WE DIDNT, we didn't and now everything is horrible and turning to sludge and i want to die every day.

But I have to stay optomistic too. IN THE CUTRRENT CLIMATE. endless torrents of shit. Shut it all off and stay inside wanking into the bin. sloppy erection meaningless streak. I just


want my son to have something later in the world, and not just have it be like this negative prayer, this WH SMiths book token world, when is Strictly on have I missed Strcitly, christ I;m sorry for this, for that, for Gary barlow's gunt that spouts out quotes from Chariman Mao's little red book of rape tactics.


I want to do more. I want things to change but look at the US and China, two big fleshy children cows fighting each other spraying diarrheoa all over the rest of us.

[MoonDust]

If it makes you feel any better we were fucked before Trump in terms of climate.

We've been sleepwalking into being fucked for decades because oil and the fossil fuel industry is still king. I mean the UK and the US were fracking under Obama. A change of President isn't going to tip us over the edge. The collective complacency of governments the world over, will.

[Gregory Torso]

I know. I just want to crawl under a big soil duvet and pull the grass over me.

[MoonDust]

Chin up Torso. We need people having kids. Don't want to make ourselves extinct. If we did then no one would be caring about the whole climate change. There is hope. It's just urgent, and urgency can sound like despair. But so long as there's hope for a better world and anger at the way things are, change will come.

[Twit 2]

Extinction is too extreme a word I think (extirpation might be better). It’d have to be a big disaster indeed to wipe out literally every person on the planet. More likely is 99.9% dying and a few people left in Barnsley, scrabbling around for whelks.

[MoonDust]

Extinction is too extreme a word I think (extirpation might be better). It’d have to be a big disaster indeed to wipe out literally every person on the planet. More likely is 99.9% dying and a few people left in Barnsley, scrabbling around for whelks.

Extirpation Rebellion has less of a ring to it.

[bgmnts]

Having kids increases your impact on the environment ten fold (guessing). So I don't know how anyone who is an environmentalist can have a child.

[MoonDust]

Having kids increases your impact on the environment ten fold (guessing). So I don't know how anyone who is an environmentalist can have a child.

Personally I don't intend on having kids. And I'm aware the impact it has. I'm just saying that on the other hand we shouldn't all stop having kids. How would that even work or be policed? One child policy like China? What about accidental pregnancies? Unwanted pregnancies? Babies will keep being born. Rather than focussing on trying to social engineer 7 billion people to meticulously plan and consider reproducing, we should focus on actual achievable things, like changing the economy and politics to get rid of fossil fuels and destroying the environment.

[SpiderChrist]

Got buttonholed by an aquaintance in the pub last night. He'd been, and went on at me at length about why hadn't I been there and what was I doing to save the planet and so on and so forth until I finall snapped his neck like a twig and recycled him into the River Cam, the self-righteous cunt.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of this shit, and have taken part in similar activities in the past. What I don't need is a coked up anarchist lecturing me on my lifestyle.

[MoonDust]

That's unfortunate. I understand people are passionate about this can get riled. But anger needs to be directed to the politicians, not the average Jane/Joe on the street.

[SpiderChrist]

Quite. Factor in the fact that most of the tale of the day involved him trying to find somewhere for his band to play, and you can see that it wasn't exactly all about the planet.

Anyway. Going on the next one, I reckon. Should be a laugh.