Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion  (Read 4477 times)

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #180 on: November 24, 2018, 07:13:50 PM »
Now pissed off Jim Davidson and The Spectator so they're/we're definitely on to something good:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/extinction-rebellion-is-a-wannabe-marxist-revolution-in-disguise/

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #181 on: November 24, 2018, 07:20:41 PM »
Would europe be far more congested/polluted/sprawly without the last 2 big wars?

Possibly we'd have found solutions sooner without the loss of the manpower and talent of two generations of the world's best men.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #182 on: November 24, 2018, 07:27:52 PM »
Possibly we'd have found solutions sooner without the loss of the manpower and talent of two generations of the world's best men.

I think the opposite - it took the destruction of two global wars in order to shake up the existing political order of entrenched elites to create an opening for the kind of social democracy that we had in Western Europe.  I think without the wars, we'd have got to this climate change position more quickly because capitalism would have continued apace without interruption.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #183 on: November 24, 2018, 07:50:52 PM »
I heard that, immediately after WWII, various magnates got together and decided to strip power of ideology once and for all, as that lethal combination gave us you know who.  But the accelerated Free Market which came in its wake was a gaping maw which has lit up the earth's resources like an incense stick, and we consumers have copied its essence, no longer having religion or higher powers or much of anything other than temporary diversion to occupy our thoughts, we each opted to become teeth in the big chewing mouth instead.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #184 on: November 25, 2018, 01:00:57 AM »
I think the opposite - it took the destruction of two global wars in order to shake up the existing political order of entrenched elites to create an opening for the kind of social democracy that we had in Western Europe.  I think without the wars, we'd have got to this climate change position more quickly because capitalism would have continued apace without interruption.

I can't believe the post-war entrenchment of Fordist capitalism and industrialised agriculture retarded the progress of climate change, or almost any kind of environmental destruction for that matter (not that I've actually checked).

Not a well-known fact - Murray Bookchin wrote about climate change in 1965. He had also written about all sorts of environmental disasters just before Silent Spring was published, and in more depth and range, but hardly anyone took much notice of him compared to Rachel Carson, because he was an anarchist and blamed the whole social and economic system, which the world wasn't ready to hear in 1962.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #185 on: November 26, 2018, 08:57:42 AM »
Sorry to go back to car usage, but I was wondering if campaigning for a London style congestion charge to be brought in in cities across the UK would get many people out of their cars. It might encourage councils to improve public transport as well.

I also think that there should be a prominent ranking of every city and town in the UK by car usage and how easy it is to walk/cycle/take public transport there.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #186 on: November 26, 2018, 09:26:24 AM »
I think the congestion charge is something that should be considered for other towns, but it's worth bearing in mind that it was a success in London because it was co-ordinated with improvements to an already excellent public transport network and there was a specific goal of speeding up bus travel.

It's hard to trust that other local authorities wouldn't just see it as a cash grab, and make matters worse.

Plus, if you drive to work in Glasgow, Leeds or Manchester I can't see how having to shell out a tenner is going to be any more of a disincentive than the urban planning of those cities already present.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #187 on: November 26, 2018, 09:47:26 AM »
Introducing a congestion charge in the same format wouldn't work now anyway, and the London one is arguably not working as well as it should anymore. Mainly because of the enormous surge in the private and commercial fleet (Uber and delivery vehicles). Presumably a more responsive pricing would be introduced linked to time and distance. I guess we'd also be looking - If we don't already - at levvies for companies providing parking. Whether they would actually have an initiative to pass on relief to people who travel via PT is another matter. Maybe it would just go to the consumer


Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #189 on: December 01, 2018, 10:45:42 PM »
How are others' Boomer parents on climate change and other eco-issues? My parents are both very down on me being involved in Extinction Revolution at all, frankly. My dad seems very sceptical that there's been a decline in eco-diversity. My appeal to memories of previous insectoid plenitude were dismissed (I swear I remember seeing stag beetles almost every time I went for a walk in our village in summer and buddleia bushes teeming with butterflies, but he seems to reckon it's the same as it ever was). My mum was also cynical about the school kids in Australia going "on strike" in protest again climate change. That said, they've always been sniffy about my vegetarianism and are outright antagonistic sometimes about my attempts to go vegan.

Presumably some of you with Boomer parents have parents who were hippies as teens/ in their 20s and never shed their Gaia-loving ways?

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #190 on: December 05, 2018, 01:02:02 AM »
How are others' Boomer parents on climate change and other eco-issues? My parents are both very down on me being involved in Extinction Revolution at all, frankly. My dad seems very sceptical that there's been a decline in eco-diversity. My appeal to memories of previous insectoid plenitude were dismissed (I swear I remember seeing stag beetles almost every time I went for a walk in our village in summer and buddleia bushes teeming with butterflies, but he seems to reckon it's the same as it ever was). My mum was also cynical about the school kids in Australia going "on strike" in protest again climate change. That said, they've always been sniffy about my vegetarianism and are outright antagonistic sometimes about my attempts to go vegan.

Presumably some of you with Boomer parents have parents who were hippies as teens/ in their 20s and never shed their Gaia-loving ways?

I'm a late boomer and I support Extinction Rebellion. Us late boomers are more likely to have been punkish than hippy, and from this fascinating little Guardian video it appears that a lot the leaders may be about my age. I like the whole vibe of the thing - it looks well organised and well thought out.

Stongly recommend this - it gives an interesting picture of what they're doing, though gout_pony might be able to say how accurate he thinks it is, he being the man on the ground:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAH3IQwHKag

More recent sit down protest in Norwich:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46439210

This thread is going to go on getting bumped.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #191 on: December 05, 2018, 07:13:47 AM »
How are others' Boomer parents on climate change and other eco-issues? My parents are both very down on me being involved in Extinction Revolution at all, frankly. My dad seems very sceptical that there's been a decline in eco-diversity. My appeal to memories of previous insectoid plenitude were dismissed (I swear I remember seeing stag beetles almost every time I went for a walk in our village in summer and buddleia bushes teeming with butterflies, but he seems to reckon it's the same as it ever was). My mum was also cynical about the school kids in Australia going "on strike" in protest again climate change. That said, they've always been sniffy about my vegetarianism and are outright antagonistic sometimes about my attempts to go vegan.

Presumably some of you with Boomer parents have parents who were hippies as teens/ in their 20s and never shed their Gaia-loving ways?

I’m sure you don’t want to argue with your dad, but it’s pretty risible to say ‘there is the same amount of animals there ever was’ when the data on this is so available and so shocking. Or you can go for a walk and open your eyes, like you did. You could buy him a copy of Michael McCarthy’s The Moth Snowstorm, which would certainly open his eyes. Just say it’s a beautiful book on nature, which it also is.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #192 on: December 05, 2018, 08:10:59 AM »
Ask him why he never has to clean dead insects from his windscreen the way everyone used to have to do after a night drive.

Windscreens and headlights used to become sludgy with insect carcasses and some time in the 1990s they declined massively. Now, even after a summer night drive through a rural area, screens are usually completely clear.

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #193 on: December 05, 2018, 06:07:46 PM »
Heh, that’s the exact starting premise and title of the book I mentioned. Can’t recommend it enough, it’s as profound and moving as it is bracing.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #194 on: December 05, 2018, 06:32:49 PM »
It's hard to trust that other local authorities wouldn't just see it as a cash grab, and make matters worse.

That's how it has always worked in my experience with residents parking schemes or legislating how many spaces new offices are allowed (although greed of developers does that in as well). Aberdeen even started removing free parking spaces in their parks, on the edge of town to get people to cough up for the park and ride, also on the edge of town. People obviously just parked on the road.

Another classic is to put on buses that can only be caught from the town centre, you know, the bit it's already impossible to park in without paying massively?

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #195 on: December 05, 2018, 06:46:13 PM »
I’m sure you don’t want to argue with your dad, but it’s pretty risible to say ‘there is the same amount of animals there ever was’ when the data on this is so available and so shocking. Or you can go for a walk and open your eyes, like you did. You could buy him a copy of Michael McCarthy’s The Moth Snowstorm, which would certainly open his eyes. Just say it’s a beautiful book on nature, which it also is.

I might actually do that as he's a keen reader and generally likes non-fiction science writing so once he sees it's not just my own anecdotal reflections he likely will be swayed - thanks kindly for the suggestion! :)

manticore, I don't want to unduly give the impression I'm in the thick of things - though, from the London protest it is fair to say, thinking about it, that there were rather a lot of (maybe mostly late) Boomers and certainly a great deal of Generation Xers! It wasn't all Millennials and younger by any means!

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #196 on: December 05, 2018, 06:47:03 PM »
I’m sure you don’t want to argue with your dad, but it’s pretty risible to say ‘there is the same amount of animals there ever was’ when the data on this is so available and so shocking.

haha to be fair he probably just couldn't be bothered discussing it with me! :p