Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion  (Read 8412 times)

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #180 on: November 24, 2018, 07:13:50 PM »
Now pissed off Jim Davidson and The Spectator so they're/we're definitely on to something good:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/extinction-rebellion-is-a-wannabe-marxist-revolution-in-disguise/

Autopsy Turvey

  • Albert The Grinder vs The Hooded Terror
    • http://www.myspace.com/chrischantler
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #181 on: November 24, 2018, 07:20:41 PM »
Would europe be far more congested/polluted/sprawly without the last 2 big wars?

Possibly we'd have found solutions sooner without the loss of the manpower and talent of two generations of the world's best men.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #182 on: November 24, 2018, 07:27:52 PM »
Possibly we'd have found solutions sooner without the loss of the manpower and talent of two generations of the world's best men.

I think the opposite - it took the destruction of two global wars in order to shake up the existing political order of entrenched elites to create an opening for the kind of social democracy that we had in Western Europe.  I think without the wars, we'd have got to this climate change position more quickly because capitalism would have continued apace without interruption.

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #183 on: November 24, 2018, 07:50:52 PM »
I heard that, immediately after WWII, various magnates got together and decided to strip power of ideology once and for all, as that lethal combination gave us you know who.  But the accelerated Free Market which came in its wake was a gaping maw which has lit up the earth's resources like an incense stick, and we consumers have copied its essence, no longer having religion or higher powers or much of anything other than temporary diversion to occupy our thoughts, we each opted to become teeth in the big chewing mouth instead.

manticore

  • 'nut with really wacky opinions'
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #184 on: November 25, 2018, 01:00:57 AM »
I think the opposite - it took the destruction of two global wars in order to shake up the existing political order of entrenched elites to create an opening for the kind of social democracy that we had in Western Europe.  I think without the wars, we'd have got to this climate change position more quickly because capitalism would have continued apace without interruption.

I can't believe the post-war entrenchment of Fordist capitalism and industrialised agriculture retarded the progress of climate change, or almost any kind of environmental destruction for that matter (not that I've actually checked).

Not a well-known fact - Murray Bookchin wrote about climate change in 1965. He had also written about all sorts of environmental disasters just before Silent Spring was published, and in more depth and range, but hardly anyone took much notice of him compared to Rachel Carson, because he was an anarchist and blamed the whole social and economic system, which the world wasn't ready to hear in 1962.

Fambo Number Mive

  • Golden Member
  • *****
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #185 on: November 26, 2018, 08:57:42 AM »
Sorry to go back to car usage, but I was wondering if campaigning for a London style congestion charge to be brought in in cities across the UK would get many people out of their cars. It might encourage councils to improve public transport as well.

I also think that there should be a prominent ranking of every city and town in the UK by car usage and how easy it is to walk/cycle/take public transport there.

Paul Calf

  • Just put 'nice plums'.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #186 on: November 26, 2018, 09:26:24 AM »
I think the congestion charge is something that should be considered for other towns, but it's worth bearing in mind that it was a success in London because it was co-ordinated with improvements to an already excellent public transport network and there was a specific goal of speeding up bus travel.

It's hard to trust that other local authorities wouldn't just see it as a cash grab, and make matters worse.

Plus, if you drive to work in Glasgow, Leeds or Manchester I can't see how having to shell out a tenner is going to be any more of a disincentive than the urban planning of those cities already present.

phes

  • Member
  • **
  • operating as a shape
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #187 on: November 26, 2018, 09:47:26 AM »
Introducing a congestion charge in the same format wouldn't work now anyway, and the London one is arguably not working as well as it should anymore. Mainly because of the enormous surge in the private and commercial fleet (Uber and delivery vehicles). Presumably a more responsive pricing would be introduced linked to time and distance. I guess we'd also be looking - If we don't already - at levvies for companies providing parking. Whether they would actually have an initiative to pass on relief to people who travel via PT is another matter. Maybe it would just go to the consumer


Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #189 on: December 01, 2018, 10:45:42 PM »
How are others' Boomer parents on climate change and other eco-issues? My parents are both very down on me being involved in Extinction Revolution at all, frankly. My dad seems very sceptical that there's been a decline in eco-diversity. My appeal to memories of previous insectoid plenitude were dismissed (I swear I remember seeing stag beetles almost every time I went for a walk in our village in summer and buddleia bushes teeming with butterflies, but he seems to reckon it's the same as it ever was). My mum was also cynical about the school kids in Australia going "on strike" in protest again climate change. That said, they've always been sniffy about my vegetarianism and are outright antagonistic sometimes about my attempts to go vegan.

Presumably some of you with Boomer parents have parents who were hippies as teens/ in their 20s and never shed their Gaia-loving ways?

manticore

  • 'nut with really wacky opinions'
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #190 on: December 05, 2018, 01:02:02 AM »
How are others' Boomer parents on climate change and other eco-issues? My parents are both very down on me being involved in Extinction Revolution at all, frankly. My dad seems very sceptical that there's been a decline in eco-diversity. My appeal to memories of previous insectoid plenitude were dismissed (I swear I remember seeing stag beetles almost every time I went for a walk in our village in summer and buddleia bushes teeming with butterflies, but he seems to reckon it's the same as it ever was). My mum was also cynical about the school kids in Australia going "on strike" in protest again climate change. That said, they've always been sniffy about my vegetarianism and are outright antagonistic sometimes about my attempts to go vegan.

Presumably some of you with Boomer parents have parents who were hippies as teens/ in their 20s and never shed their Gaia-loving ways?

I'm a late boomer and I support Extinction Rebellion. Us late boomers are more likely to have been punkish than hippy, and from this fascinating little Guardian video it appears that a lot the leaders may be about my age. I like the whole vibe of the thing - it looks well organised and well thought out.

Stongly recommend this - it gives an interesting picture of what they're doing, though gout_pony might be able to say how accurate he thinks it is, he being the man on the ground:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAH3IQwHKag

More recent sit down protest in Norwich:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-46439210

This thread is going to go on getting bumped.

Twit 2

  • Cyclone par l'immobile habité
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #191 on: December 05, 2018, 07:13:47 AM »
How are others' Boomer parents on climate change and other eco-issues? My parents are both very down on me being involved in Extinction Revolution at all, frankly. My dad seems very sceptical that there's been a decline in eco-diversity. My appeal to memories of previous insectoid plenitude were dismissed (I swear I remember seeing stag beetles almost every time I went for a walk in our village in summer and buddleia bushes teeming with butterflies, but he seems to reckon it's the same as it ever was). My mum was also cynical about the school kids in Australia going "on strike" in protest again climate change. That said, they've always been sniffy about my vegetarianism and are outright antagonistic sometimes about my attempts to go vegan.

Presumably some of you with Boomer parents have parents who were hippies as teens/ in their 20s and never shed their Gaia-loving ways?

I’m sure you don’t want to argue with your dad, but it’s pretty risible to say ‘there is the same amount of animals there ever was’ when the data on this is so available and so shocking. Or you can go for a walk and open your eyes, like you did. You could buy him a copy of Michael McCarthy’s The Moth Snowstorm, which would certainly open his eyes. Just say it’s a beautiful book on nature, which it also is.

Paul Calf

  • Just put 'nice plums'.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #192 on: December 05, 2018, 08:10:59 AM »
Ask him why he never has to clean dead insects from his windscreen the way everyone used to have to do after a night drive.

Windscreens and headlights used to become sludgy with insect carcasses and some time in the 1990s they declined massively. Now, even after a summer night drive through a rural area, screens are usually completely clear.

Twit 2

  • Cyclone par l'immobile habité
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #193 on: December 05, 2018, 06:07:46 PM »
Heh, that’s the exact starting premise and title of the book I mentioned. Can’t recommend it enough, it’s as profound and moving as it is bracing.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #194 on: December 05, 2018, 06:32:49 PM »
It's hard to trust that other local authorities wouldn't just see it as a cash grab, and make matters worse.

That's how it has always worked in my experience with residents parking schemes or legislating how many spaces new offices are allowed (although greed of developers does that in as well). Aberdeen even started removing free parking spaces in their parks, on the edge of town to get people to cough up for the park and ride, also on the edge of town. People obviously just parked on the road.

Another classic is to put on buses that can only be caught from the town centre, you know, the bit it's already impossible to park in without paying massively?

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #195 on: December 05, 2018, 06:46:13 PM »
I’m sure you don’t want to argue with your dad, but it’s pretty risible to say ‘there is the same amount of animals there ever was’ when the data on this is so available and so shocking. Or you can go for a walk and open your eyes, like you did. You could buy him a copy of Michael McCarthy’s The Moth Snowstorm, which would certainly open his eyes. Just say it’s a beautiful book on nature, which it also is.

I might actually do that as he's a keen reader and generally likes non-fiction science writing so once he sees it's not just my own anecdotal reflections he likely will be swayed - thanks kindly for the suggestion! :)

manticore, I don't want to unduly give the impression I'm in the thick of things - though, from the London protest it is fair to say, thinking about it, that there were rather a lot of (maybe mostly late) Boomers and certainly a great deal of Generation Xers! It wasn't all Millennials and younger by any means!

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #196 on: December 05, 2018, 06:47:03 PM »
I’m sure you don’t want to argue with your dad, but it’s pretty risible to say ‘there is the same amount of animals there ever was’ when the data on this is so available and so shocking.

haha to be fair he probably just couldn't be bothered discussing it with me! :p

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #197 on: December 20, 2018, 07:21:51 PM »
They're focusing on the BBC tomorrow:
https://rebellion.earth/events/

Quote from: from email
ONSITE AT BBC BROADCASTING HOUSE, PORTLAND PLACE

BEATING OF THE BOUNDS

The beating of the bounds is an ancient ritual performed to pray for protection.

We will be creating a humdrum of noise around the BBC building (drums, voices etc.) so our message cannot be ignored - it will soon be too late to act to prevent climate and ecological disaster - they must listen, and act with us, now.

LIGHTING OF THE CANDLES IN THE XR SYMBOL

LIGHT symbolises TRUTH

We are forming the XR symbol in candles outside the BBC building, to call upon our Public Service Broadcaster to convey the truth of the severity of the climate and ecological emergency we are experiencing, and the urgent action needed to address this.

Also at BBC places in Cambridge, Bristol, Glasgow, Manchester, Berlin and Birmingham...

Online/phone stuff planned as well.

Quote from: Bristol facebook group
Hi all, I don't know what's planned for tomorrow in terms of carols but here is one we could sing:
Oh BBC Oh BBC
[to the tune of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen]

Oh BBC, Oh BBC
You cause us much dismay
You are not covering climate
in an appropriate way.
This is a real emergency
So please wake up, we pray
Oh tidings of rebellion today - today
Oh tidings of rebellion today.

Only twelve years to us remain
To turn this thing around
So sayeth all the scientists
And their advice is sound
So please wake up while there’s still time
You have the power to sway,
Oh tidings of rebellion today - today
Oh tidings of rebellion today.

Oh BBC, Oh BBC
Please hear us when we say
You are not covering climate
in an appropriate way.
So please wake up and realise
the harm you do this way
Oh tidings of rebellion today - today
Oh tidings of rebellion today.

Oh BBC, Oh BBC
You cause us much dismay
You are not covering climate
in an appropriate way.
Please wake up now and get a grip
You have the power to sway
Oh tidings of rebellion today - today
Oh tidings of rebellion today.

Quote
Silent night, smoky night,
coal fired power, coal fired light.
Governments have failed us now.
Politicians, they don’t know how.
Still coal exports go on, still coal exports go on.

Smoky night, humming night.
Farmers quake at the sight.
Prime farm land acquired to mine.
All to earn those bigwigs a dime.
End of coal is now nigh, end of coal is now nigh.

Silent night, dusty night.
Coal is bad, coal is trite.
Black rocks causing climate change,
seas to rise and storms to rage.
Time for us to act now, time for us to act now.

Maybe the syllables don't quite fit, but I appreciate the effort. Alas I'll be at work.

KennyMonster

  • Dance like The Goverment is watching.
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #198 on: December 20, 2018, 09:53:28 PM »
Have these fellas been busy near Gatwick today?

manticore

  • 'nut with really wacky opinions'
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #199 on: December 20, 2018, 10:26:35 PM »
They're focusing on the BBC tomorrow:
https://rebellion.earth/events/

Also at BBC places in Cambridge, Bristol, Glasgow, Manchester, Berlin and Birmingham...

Online/phone stuff planned as well.

The online/phone stuff for tomorrow (Friday):

CAN'T MAKE THE ACTION TOMORROW?

WANT TO HELP CAUSE SOME DISRUPTION?

We are going to jam the BBC phone lines (phone numbers below) all day with calls about the climate emergency until it sinks in! Let the operator that you think the BBC needs to do more to cover the climate emergency and read out our demands (below)

Pick up the phone and help us out

BBC Contacts

Complaints Form : https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/faqs/forms

Comments Phone Number: 03704 101060

Complaints: 03700 100 222

stunted

  • Thomas BAOWnce
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #200 on: December 20, 2018, 11:51:22 PM »
Yougov came to my flat to pole me recently and on the question of "what issue concerns you most today" out of about 30 options climate change wasn't one. "Pollution" was closest.

Haven't read the whole thread but on the subject of famine has it been mentioned that the food we're eating is becoming less and less nutritious and we're all becoming sicker for it? The nutrient content on packaging is decades out of date. Apparently nuts contain next to no selenium now.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #201 on: December 21, 2018, 12:45:05 AM »
The online/phone stuff for tomorrow (Friday):

CAN'T MAKE THE ACTION TOMORROW?

WANT TO HELP CAUSE SOME DISRUPTION?

We are going to jam the BBC phone lines (phone numbers below) all day with calls about the climate emergency until it sinks in! Let the operator that you think the BBC needs to do more to cover the climate emergency and read out our demands (below)

Pick up the phone and help us out

BBC Contacts

Complaints Form : https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/faqs/forms

Comments Phone Number: 03704 101060

Complaints: 03700 100 222

Thank you for this! I'm sure a whole bunch of us can spare 5 mins to do this once at least!

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #202 on: December 21, 2018, 12:35:35 PM »
Filling out an online complaints form is easy and satisfying - you feel like a gentleman of a certain age writing in to The Telegraph. I'd highly recommend it. DO IT NOW YA LOVELY SHLUBS!

manticore

  • 'nut with really wacky opinions'
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #203 on: December 21, 2018, 02:02:48 PM »
More from Extinction Rebellion about what you can do today:

CAN’T MAKE THE ACTION TODAY? YOU CAN HELP US FROM WHEREVER YOU ARE!

PICK UP THE PHONE/SEND A LETTER TO THE BBC *TODAY*
CALL UPON THE BBC TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE

The BBC has failed to cover the severity of the issue of climate change for many years, and we need your help to rally them to their duty as a public service broadcaster. We need them to use their broadcasting power to lead worldwide media to fight climate change.


(1) BY PHONE

We are going to bombard the BBC phone lines (phone numbers below) all day about the climate emergency until it sinks in! Let the operator know that you think the BBC needs to do more to cover the climate emergency and read out our requests.

Here are the requests: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/16/bbc-has-a-key-role-in-tackling-the-climate-emergency

Pick up the phone and help us out:

BBC Contacts

Complaints Form: https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/faqs/forms

Comments Phone Number: 03704 101060

Complaints: 03700 100 222

   

(2) BY EMAIL

Fill the BBC’s email boxes with complaints (sample email below).

Write how you feel about the lack of coverage of the climate emergency.

Send to any/all of the below:
BBC Head Office Complaints Team
ECU@bbc.co.uk

Any @bbc.co.uk email address - programmes, broadcasters...

Some examples;
today@bbc.co.uk
feedback@bbc.co.uk
saturdaylive@bbc.co.uk
[insert name of broadcaster.lastname]@bbc.co.uk
You can also log a complaint online: http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/


Sample email:

Dear (BBC/Programme Name/Presenter)

I am contacting you to express my concern that the BBC is failing to give the Climate Emergency we find ourselves in the urgent attention it warrants.

The BBC’s mission statement says that it is the Corporation’s duty to inform and educate. Yet the BBC is failing in this duty in its reporting of the seriousness of the situation we are in and on the unprecedented action our governments need to take in order to prevent the destruction of life on earth as we know it. Many solutions exist, these need to be the centre of an urgent public debate on the best way forward for all life on earth.

On 13 December the UN Secretary General said that our failure to tackle warming was ’suicidal’.

The BBC’s guidelines state, 'Man-made climate change exists: If the science proves it we should report it. The BBC accepts that the best science on the issue is the IPCC’s position’”

The IPCC’s position is that we must limit global warming to 1.5°C and that we are currently on course to the world heating up by 3°C. The IPCC have said that we have a window of just 12 years to significantly reduce our carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions to avert a major human and ecological catastrophe.

On 11 September, Antonio Guterres UN Secretary-General, said,

“If we do not change course by 2020, we risk missing the point where we can avoid runaway climate change, with disastrous consequences for people and all the natural systems that sustain us,” (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/11/fossil-fuel-dependence-poses-direct-existential-threat-warns-un-chief)


On 20 August, Professor Han Joachim Schellnhuber

(Head of Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and Senior Advisor to Pope Francis and Angela Merkel and the EU) said that, “Climate change is now reaching the end-game, where very soon humanity must choose between taking unprecedented action, or accepting that it has been left too late and bear the consequences.” (https://www.climatecodered.org/2018/08/take-unprecedented-action-or-bear.html?m=1)

The BBC must lead from the front on the climate emergency - I stand in solidarity with Extinction Rebellion and therefore request:

1. The BBC Director General Tony Hall agree to a meeting with a delegation from Extinction Rebellion to discuss how the corporation can meet its crucial moral duty to tell the full truth on the climate and ecological emergency.

2. The BBC declare a climate and ecological emergency - we need to act now, the extinction of the natural world is happening and we face the collapse of our civilisations.

3. The BBC place the climate and ecological emergency as its top editorial and corporate priority - integrated into all of aspects of the BBC’s output, not just environmental sections - by adoption of a climate emergency strategic plan, at the level of urgency the corporation placed on informing the public about World War 2.

4. The BBC to divest all pension funds, investments and bank accounts from fossil fuel corporations and their bankers.

5. The BBC, its subsidiaries and its supply chain to agree to be zero-carbon by 2025.

6. The BBC to publish an annual eco-audit of all BBC operations, including summary of key ecological and carbon data.

7. The BBC to take a lead on encouraging other national & global media corporations to join the global efforts to save humanity / nature from existential crises.

8. The BBC to only allow think-tank spokespersons or lobbyists on-air to discuss the climate and ecological emergency whose funding is fully transparent.

Yours sincerely

(Your name and address)

SOME EXAMPLES OF THE BBC IGNORING/NOT COVERING THE SEVERITY OF CLIMATE CHANGE

    The BBC refused to cover reports on the UN Security Council special conference on climate change in July 2018. Dire warnings were given about the security implications of mass migration caused by climate change.

    In September, the UN Secretary General appealed to news o utlets to cover his upcoming speech on climate change and on 10 September he then delivered it, warning that we now face "a direct existential threat" and warned of "runaway climate change". The BBC refused to cover that on TV or radio news.

    Following a string of stinging complaints, the BBC has given ground and promised to improve its coverage of news but it still refuses to allow the public to hear the really frightening material in connection with the various climate feedbacks and tipping points.

    Many campaigners fear the BBC has a policy of not frightening the public but we need to stop the censorship if people are to realise the seriousness of the situation and call for dynamic action to prevent catastrophe


Let's help get the BBC on the right side of history!



manticore

  • 'nut with really wacky opinions'
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #204 on: December 21, 2018, 02:17:29 PM »
I called the BBC coments line on 03704 101060 and talked biefly to a nice woman who was obviously prepared for what I was going to ask, that -

The BBC declares a climate and ecological emergency.

She will refer it on.

Try it, it's all perfectly civilised, no one gets hurt!

Edit: Okay - four emails (using sample email in previous post), a phone call and an online complaint.

It's all good fun, try it people!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:39:11 PM by manticore »

metaltax

  • Golden Member
  • *****
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #205 on: December 21, 2018, 03:06:56 PM »
Neither the complaints form nor the phone number go directly to the BBC. It’s all vetted by Capita before it gets anywhere near a Beeb employee.

manticore

  • 'nut with really wacky opinions'
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #206 on: December 21, 2018, 03:33:16 PM »
That's true, but I don't see how it should have any effect on what we do. If at least some of the complaints somehow get through, they get through.

The BBC says:

"We’ll normally include the text below in our overnight report to producers and management of all the complaints and other reaction we receive today (with your personal details removed). This means it will reach the right people by tomorrow morning."

From their replies, it doesn't seem as if they're completely unresponsive to me. I say flood them!

Paul Calf

  • Just put 'nice plums'.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #207 on: December 21, 2018, 03:48:07 PM »
Yougov came to my flat to pole me recently

* Paul Calf wanks

metaltax

  • Golden Member
  • *****
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #208 on: December 21, 2018, 05:06:56 PM »
From their replies, it doesn't seem as if they're completely unresponsive to me. I say flood them!

Well no, but the text you posted further up talks about jamming their phones, flooding them with emails etc. My point was just that you can do that all you like but the volume will have no effect on BBC people’s ability to do their job. I guess it only matters if you’re trying to cause trouble. If you’re just trying to provide genuine feedback then no harm.

manticore

  • 'nut with really wacky opinions'
Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #209 on: December 21, 2018, 05:36:04 PM »
Well no, but the text you posted further up talks about jamming their phones, flooding them with emails etc. My point was just that you can do that all you like but the volume will have no effect on BBC people’s ability to do their job. I guess it only matters if you’re trying to cause trouble. If you’re just trying to provide genuine feedback then no harm.

That's a pretty marginal issue. The essential idea is to flood the BBC with messages that will get through to them, even if via Capita, trying to get them to change their policies. If anyone doesn't want to take part in that, fine, but the outsourcing thing isn't convincing as a reason for them not to try.