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Extinction Rebellion

Started by MoonDust, November 17, 2018, 10:52:14 PM

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BlodwynPig

Fucking baboons

All can die now

Goodbye cruel world

chveik

baboons are great. have you read the Shirley Strum's book about them? fascinating stuff

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: chveik on October 17, 2019, 11:36:16 PM
baboons are great. have you read the Shirley Strum's book about them? fascinating stuff

nah but i liked the film with clint eastwood and the monkey

phes

Quote from: Buelligan on October 17, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
I think you have a bit of truth there without doubt.  People who smoke often fume when others talk about the dangers of passive smoking.  People who overeat get eggy about diet conversations.  People who live beyond their means get antsy when hearing advice about the dangers of debt.  It's normal.

Shutting up XR isn't going to make this go away.  It's going to make it worse if it does anything. 

And we can always go the other way.  Just cull all these wankers.  Put an end to capitalism too.  Then just live high on the hog in a lovely paradise for the rest of our blessed days.  We could call that Plan(et) B.

I think there's truth in this. An example is the criticism leveled at XR for their (minimal, but definite) disruption to emergency services responding in and adjacent to protest areas. Emergency service response times are impacted 365 days a year through congestion. Public health outcomes are impacted every single day and people die, people have poorer outcomes, people miss appointments, surgeries get cancelled etc. You can argue about who is or should be responsible and to what degree, but ultimately 99% of people (I dunno what % but it's high) do pretty much fuck all to improve this situation and just go about their daily lives. Same goes for localised emissions that are shortening lives, decreasing quality of life and on occasion likely straight up killing folks. There's been an enormous kickback at XR for causing congestion in the sites around where they protest. And it's almost exclusively from people who themselves do absolutely nothing but contribute to the problem. At least XR can say that their demands are compatible with the kind of transport planning that should improve emergency service response times and air quality. And you can't argue with a lot of these people, they'll argue against their personal responsibility or for their right to freedom of choice and argue against protest for systemic change or criticise XR for their impact on congestion/emissions. It's a worse kind of hypocricy imo than an XR protester with a car protesting for systemic change.

And so today, well it's obviously hitting the motherload for this type of person

garbed_attic

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on October 17, 2019, 11:22:39 PM
FWIW I think it'd be a shame if you chucked in the towel gout and a loss to ER. I've been overly hard on you and a bit of a prick at times; but you're both involved and able to argue their case well outside of the usual, not quite stonewall, but has a stonewall effect of 'this is the most important thing facing us, etc, etc'.

Thanks - I probably just need a break. It's frustrating being in Suffolk because realistically its XR or the Suffolk Wildlife Trust in terms of one's choices for environmental activism. And I'm not convinced that Suffolk Wildlife Trust are any less white.

Our local group has managed actions which were both disruptive yet less alienating... When we shut down a BP garage, for instance, we deliberately chose one with another petrol station literally across the road so that the inconvenience was minimal. A lot of people were still angry on principal that we were interfering with their freedom of "consumer choice", but simultaneously completely unhesitant to agree that BP are evil and corrupt. They just wanted the right to spend their money upon evil and corrupt companies if they so chose!

I think people have so little freedom in their lives that they guard their freedom of consumer choice very preciously, even though that freedom is mostly an illusion based upon different varieties of packaging.

Phes and Buellers, definitely in agreement there. But I think a lot of people find it hard to think structurally rather than purely individually. You see it again and again in interviewers with XR spokespeople when the interviewer says angrily "But we already all do our bit - we all recycle and sometimes ride bikes!"

I really wish Mark Fisher were still alive to be part of it. He would have really helped address a lot of rubbishness at working class solidarity and action, I reckon.

Guys complaining about the public prioritising cars and foreign travel and here we are talking about chucking in the towel in the face of devastating global environmental change because apparently having too many white people in one place is far too much of a dealbreaker.

You're doing good work. Don't give it up over something so trivial.

chveik

Quote from: Chuck Armstrong on October 18, 2019, 12:39:30 AM
Guys complaining about the public prioritising cars and foreign travel and here we are talking about chucking in the towel in the face of devastating global environmental change because apparently having too many white people in one place is far too much of a dealbreaker.

You're doing good work. Don't give it up over something so trivial.

it doesn't look good for that cab meet.

gib

Quote from: gout_pony on October 18, 2019, 12:18:09 AMSuffolk Wildlife Trust

it'll just be a big scary man saying "git y'self charppin them braambles boi" /regional humour

garbed_attic

Quote from: Chuck Armstrong on October 18, 2019, 12:39:30 AM
Guys complaining about the public prioritising cars and foreign travel and here we are talking about chucking in the towel in the face of devastating global environmental change because apparently having too many white people in one place is far too much of a dealbreaker.

You're doing good work. Don't give it up over something so trivial.

I just need a break I think... it's more that the prevailing whiteness and middle-class-ness often seem to lead XR in Britain at least to make some blinkered choices. It troubles me more in terms of XR Central than locally though to be honest.

garbed_attic

Quote from: gib on October 18, 2019, 12:51:22 AM
it'll just be a big scary man saying "git y'self charppin them braambles boi" /regional humour

+1

Sebastian Cobb

#790
Quote from: gout_pony on October 18, 2019, 12:18:09 AM
I think people have so little freedom in their lives that they guard their freedom of consumer choice very preciously, even though that freedom is mostly an illusion based upon different varieties of packaging.

Well yes and people with less choice have even less purchasing power.

A basic example is heat. The UK subreddit is full of people full of people in gas heated homes telling people they just need to wear a jumper. While people in cheap rented gaffs pay a fucking fortune to make shitty convection, or worse, storage heaters cough some warmth out. Meanwhile the rich can pay the upfront cost for eco-friendly electric heat pumps.

The obvious answer to this is to go higher up the chain, tax cunts and set up a fund so poors get efficient heating, optics and that.

Or even better use district heating like New York did for the past hundred years or the Soviet Union did for over 50.

NJ Uncut

Have you abandoned us, Chumbawamba, in our hour of need?

BlodwynPig

Quote from: NJ Uncut on October 18, 2019, 06:26:03 AM
Have you abandoned us, Chumbawamba, in our hour of need?

I get knocked down, never get up again


canadagoose

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on October 18, 2019, 01:10:21 AM
Well yes and people with less choice have even less purchasing power.

A basic example is heat. The UK subreddit is full of people full of people in gas heated homes telling people they just need to wear a jumper. While people in cheap rented gaffs pay a fucking fortune to make shitty convection, or worse, storage heaters cough some warmth out. Meanwhile the rich can pay the upfront cost for eco-friendly electric heat pumps.

The obvious answer to this is to go higher up the chain, tax cunts and set up a fund so poors get efficient heating, optics and that.

Or even better use district heating like New York did for the past hundred years or the Soviet Union did for over 50.
Replacing all the gas CH in the UK is going to be a hell of a task, but it's surely inevitable. I heard noises about the gas network possibly being replaced with something hydrogen-based, but that was a fair while ago. We don't have a gas supply in our building, so we've got storage heaters, and they're quite ugly but surprisingly effective, probably because the building was built in the early '90s and is well-insulated. (Maybe a bit too well-insulated - I ended up having to move my desktop computer out of my bedroom last summer because it made the room too hot.) I wonder if some kind of "smart" storage heating option will become popular? The more wind power we generate, the more excess power there will end up being at night, at least until a ton of batteries are commissioned. Heat pumps seem like the best option, but the cost...!

garbed_attic

Quote from: Buelligan on October 18, 2019, 11:17:46 PM

Lovely Steve Coogan standing up for the planet today

I wonder if Partridge will have a rant about XR in the next series then!

Sebastian Cobb


Quote from: canadagoose on October 18, 2019, 11:53:11 PM

I had newish storage heaters in one place in a not very well insulated place in Aberdeen and prepay electric so I was quite aware of how much they cost. They were shit,they leaked most of the heat out during the time I wasn't in. During the weekend or when I was working from home they were horribly stuffy during the middle of the day.

I found the best way was just some base heat to stop the walls going cold, and to top it up at night with a fan heater, even though it was a higher tariff.

I reckon there will be more spare electricity in the day, actually, like in Germany from solar. That could be used for things like heating water. People will charge cars at night, consumption is expected to rocket.

In places like Scandinavia they store heat in boreholes full of water then pump it out in winter. If course geothermal in some places makes the water redundant.

The cost will come down as they become more popular, they should be subsidised anyway. Weird how most air con units can run backwards and act as a pump but it's not really sold. Commercial buildings have used them for ages to comply with bream.


Sony Walkman Prophecies

Quote from: Buelligan on October 17, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
And we can always go the other way.  Just cull all these wankers.  Put an end to capitalism too.  Then just live high on the hog in a lovely paradise for the rest of our blessed days.  We could call that Plan(et) B.

Yes, I've always got the impression from your posts you'd like nothing more than a good bit of mass slaughter. I'm not being facetious either. I think you'd take to it quite naturally and derive a great deal of catharsis from it.

Buelligan

Thanks, that's very kind of you.  You've obviously spent a great of time thinking about how I feel.

The number of people on Twitter cheering vigilante violence, huphuping about "how dare you make people late for work," etc. just really brings home how fucked human civilization is.

Not because people are evil, it's just a cognitive failing of the human brain being unable to process issues like climate change.

Oh well! Enjoy it while it lasts.

Kryton

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on October 19, 2019, 01:18:09 AM
The number of people on Twitter cheering vigilante violence, huphuping about "how dare you make people late for work," etc. just really brings home how fucked human civilization is.

Not because people are evil, it's just a cognitive failing of the human brain being unable to process issues like climate change.

Oh well! Enjoy it while it lasts.

Again, you miss the point of how it could be implemented.
Some dickhead kicking some cunt in the face whilst delaying a train full of people.... Is that going to make allies?

NJ Uncut

Quote from: Kryton on October 19, 2019, 01:33:13 AM
Again, you miss the point of how it could be implemented.
Some dickhead kicking some cunt in the face whilst delaying a train full of people.... Is that going to make allies?

I dunno, I've been on some pretty annoying trains

chveik

ffs, we've been over this already.

Sebastian Cobb

Even XR have released a semi non-apology apology and said they're rethinking things in light of the incident they voted against to begin with.

They also did some really poor PR likening themselves to Rosa Parks then deleted it when there was a backlash.

There's an appraisal of that here:
http://uniladusnews.jamshorodream.com/2019/10/Rosa-Parks.html?m=1

chveik


NJ Uncut

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on October 19, 2019, 01:38:39 AM
Even XR have released a semi non-apology apology and said they're rethinking things in light of the incident they voted against to begin with.

They also did some really poor PR likening themselves to Rosa Parks then deleted it when there was a backlash.

There's an appraisal of that here:
http://uniladusnews.jamshorodream.com/2019/10/Rosa-Parks.html?m=1

That massive email I only posted half of (!) on the last page sort of covered this and in their own words at least. I'll keep posting important comms as it's obvious the media hate them

Fuckin hell they're sort of .... letting us all run it ourselves, disowning some, while pulling us together

I told em this myself, not entirely sure of the leadership. They literally said they're happy for anyone to do anything in their name...

Sebastian Cobb


Quote from: Kryton on October 19, 2019, 01:33:13 AM
Again, you miss the point of how it could be implemented.
Some dickhead kicking some cunt in the face whilst delaying a train full of people.... Is that going to make allies?

We are way past the point of waiting for gammons to become fucking allies through the power of peaceful persuasion. If there is not a MAJOR social transformation pretty much immediately then civilization is fucked in the long run. Disrupting things and therefore destabilizing the momentum of the status quo is one method of doing that. But even the bulk of XR are not nearly radical enough to actually accomplish anything on a useful timescale.

Personally I don't think there is much prospect of success and I just sit here in the dark and post things on a comedy forum, but people whining on Twitter about "middle-class cunts" or about not using a conciliatory enough strategy just really don't get it.

chveik

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on October 19, 2019, 01:49:41 AM
Yeah, probably why they deleted it.

don't be facetious Cobb, that article is really bad.