Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion  (Read 40520 times)

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #90 on: November 21, 2018, 03:20:15 PM »
Controversial though it is, I actually like humans/humanity (bar obvious exceptions like Adolf Hitler, Ted Bundy and Lee Mack). Therefore, I'd like to do something to tackle the impending apocalypse.

Given that I'm too PITIFULLY LAZY to engage in any kind of activism, is there actually anything practical that can be done on a personal level? I'm already never having kids, I don't have a car, and I don't eat meat or animal products, which I understand are the Big Three of hopefully-not-destroying-the-planet. I do have the TV on in the background when I'm not even watching it, though, so it will be essentially all my fault when the tsunamis start hitting.

Anything else that we can actually do? Or do we just have to subject ourselves to the whims of the corporations who cause the vast majority of this shit?

I think public transport across the UK needs to be improved to get more people out of cars. What do people think about donating to campaigns like the Campaign for Better Transport?

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #91 on: November 21, 2018, 03:52:53 PM »
Youth in Asia, that's the solution.

thenoise

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #92 on: November 21, 2018, 03:54:48 PM »
Controversial though it is, I actually like humans/humanity (bar obvious exceptions like Adolf Hitler, Ted Bundy and Lee Mack). Therefore, I'd like to do something to tackle the impending apocalypse.

Given that I'm too PITIFULLY LAZY to engage in any kind of activism, is there actually anything practical that can be done on a personal level? I'm already never having kids, I don't have a car, and I don't eat meat or animal products, which I understand are the Big Three of hopefully-not-destroying-the-planet. I do have the TV on in the background when I'm not even watching it, though, so it will be essentially all my fault when the tsunamis start hitting.

Anything else that we can actually do? Or do we just have to subject ourselves to the whims of the corporations who cause the vast majority of this shit?

I like and share posts on twitter that advocate doing something about climate change.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #93 on: November 21, 2018, 04:21:13 PM »
Worth it just for this:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/extinction-rebellion-protest-comedian-jim-davidson-among-motorists-held-up-by-swarming-rally-in-a3996251.html

Quote
when a protester talked to him he said he didn't talk to lefties

You thinking of getting involved, MoonDust? :)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 04:35:20 PM by gout_pony »

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #94 on: November 21, 2018, 04:45:00 PM »
I think public transport across the UK needs to be improved to get more people out of cars.

You won't have much luck getting people out of cars with transit improvements. But what it can do is make travelling for the carless and/or disadvantaged cheaper, more efficient and pleasurable, with obvious economic and public health gains. You basically have to cunt drivers out of their cars with a size 12. Congestion charging works in forcing a mode shift to some degree and so a decent transit system will support that shift. Even if you do get people out of their cars the latent/induced demand means that in most instances they will just be replaced by others.

Drivers, essentially they need to be identified and killed faster than they are able to buy cars.

MoonDust

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #95 on: November 21, 2018, 05:01:50 PM »
Worth it just for this:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/extinction-rebellion-protest-comedian-jim-davidson-among-motorists-held-up-by-swarming-rally-in-a3996251.html

You thinking of getting involved, MoonDust? :)

Haha poor Jim.

The most I've done is sign up to their mailing list. I'm not in the UK.

If it spreads to Germany I would be interested definitely. There's a protest in Berlin this Friday but I live in Mannheim which is South West. Pretty much the opposite of where Berln is.

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #96 on: November 21, 2018, 05:13:36 PM »
I'm thinking about this. I'm training for an allied health role with the NHS over the next year, so I have made an appointment to discuss with the head of course what happens if I were to be arrested during that time. I need a job, and I may be more value in that job than at a rally. Hopefully it won't come to an either-or

There are cheap coaches from around the country to the London event on Saturday, and also there's an event in Manchester

MoonDust

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #97 on: November 21, 2018, 05:21:39 PM »
I'm thinking about this. I'm training for an allied health role with the NHS over the next year, so I have made an appointment to discuss with the head of course what happens if I were to be arrested during that time. I need a job, and I may be more value in that job than at a rally. Hopefully it won't come to an either-or

There are cheap coaches from around the country to the London event on Saturday, and also there's an event in Manchester

Errr. Is the training a probation period as well? I would avert asking potential future bosses "What happens if I get arrested?" as I would guess it doesn't look good from their point of view. Certainly not at an interview. Not sure about training..

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #98 on: November 21, 2018, 05:29:54 PM »
Errr. Is the training a probation period as well? I would avert asking potential future bosses "What happens if I get arrested?" as I would guess it doesn't look good from their point of view. Certainly not at an interview. Not sure about training..

The head of course is unrelated to the NHS and my future employment. But will be able to answer my question. We are a very small cohort, she knows us all well and so I'm pretty comfortable putting a hypothetical scenario like this to her

MoonDust

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #99 on: November 21, 2018, 05:32:29 PM »
The head of course is unrelated to the NHS and my future employment. But will be able to answer my question. We are a very small cohort, she knows us all well and so I'm pretty comfortable putting a hypothetical scenario like this to her

Ah fair. Sorry.

You should go to London or Manchester I reckon. More the better innit.

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #100 on: November 21, 2018, 05:39:46 PM »
As her job is turning out employable staff (that they invest heavily in) I suspect she'll chuck coffee in my face and point at the door

Paul Calf

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #101 on: November 21, 2018, 05:41:58 PM »
You won't have much luck getting people out of cars with transit improvements. But what it can do is make travelling for the carless and/or disadvantaged cheaper, more efficient and pleasurable, with obvious economic and public health gains. You basically have to cunt drivers out of their cars with a size 12. Congestion charging works in forcing a mode shift to some degree and so a decent transit system will support that shift. Even if you do get people out of their cars the latent/induced demand means that in most instances they will just be replaced by others.

Drivers, essentially they need to be identified and killed faster than they are able to buy cars.

Mass transit just has to be better and cheaper than driving. Trains are great but they’re overcrowded, unreliable, there aren’t enough stations and they cost 10-20x more than driving. Coaches can fuck right off until they somehow stop being incredibly uncomfortable and stinking of shit.

MoonDust

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #102 on: November 21, 2018, 05:45:10 PM »
As her job is turning out employable staff (that they invest heavily in) I suspect she'll chuck coffee in my face and point at the door

Thing is when people get arrested at protests, unless you've quite obviously done a crime like assault or vandalism, aren't you let go after a few hours as they can't hold you on anything? Like when a news report says "200 arrested at this protest" surely not all 200 are charged with anything? It's just a slap on the wrist that involves being held against your will, for a bit.

Or am I just being horribly naïve?

Basically what I'm getting at is, if you go to this protest and become one of dozens arrested, will your trainers even know about it? Would you even get a record if they release you with no charges after a few hours in a cell?


Clearly I'm speaking as someone who's never been arrested at a protest, so maybe someone else can give a better answer.

MoonDust

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #103 on: November 21, 2018, 05:48:43 PM »
Mass transit just has to be better and cheaper than driving. Trains are great but they’re overcrowded, unreliable, there aren’t enough stations and they cost 10-20x more than driving. Coaches can fuck right off until they somehow stop being incredibly uncomfortable and stinking of shit.

Unless you're as daft as me and have once taken a coach from Manchester to Belgrade and back, you can quit your moaning about coaches within the UK. Bloody short haul in comparison!

Endicott

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #104 on: November 21, 2018, 06:24:49 PM »
Coaches can fuck right off until they somehow stop being incredibly uncomfortable and stinking of shit.

Move to Spain. Fabulous coach (and bus for that matter) services.

MoonDust

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #105 on: November 21, 2018, 06:28:59 PM »
Move to Spain. Fabulous coach (and bus for that matter) services.

Oh Yeah! I forgot about this. I got a coach from Granada to Cordoba and got given a free goodie bag of snacks and bottle of water. Plus a personal back-of-seat TV screen (not that I used that much with the wonderful scenery out the window).

Then again, saying how great free plastic bottle of water was in a thread about environmental catastrophe but hey ho.

Endicott is right, Spanish coaches are ace. Arguably better than the trains.

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #106 on: November 21, 2018, 06:30:11 PM »
Mass transit just has to be better and cheaper than driving.

Realistically the only way we can achieve this is by making driving shitter and more expensive than public transport. Driving is cheap because the true cost is massively subsidised. Even if PT is cheaper at point of access people have likely invested capital in a car anyway and will feel obliged to justify the standing costs, they'll value travel-time lower when sat in their car in congestion than when stood waiting at a bust stop or station, people live in low density areas that have either never been well served or links have been stripped away, and people link one journey destination after the other to shop, ferry kids about, go to work etc, something that a car will always serve better than is realistically achievable by PT. Improving PT is a great thing but contexts that'll it'll actually reduce congestion in are pretty limited

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #107 on: November 21, 2018, 07:10:14 PM »
Yeah, why improve something when you can just artificially make something worse.

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #108 on: November 21, 2018, 07:32:24 PM »
There's a host of reasons we should improve PT as mentioned in previous post, just saying that in most contexts PT improvements doesn't work as a measure to reduce congestion (shift people from roads to PT and the roads just refill). You have to make driving worse to get people out of their cars in the first place. Even then, stuff like congestion charges will usually see a rebound after a dip in use

The cost of auto ownership and operation is currently artificially low. Making it more expensive is just bringing it closer the true cost
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 07:46:07 PM by phes »

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2018, 07:40:10 PM »
There's a host of reasons we should improve PT as mentioned in previous post, just saying that in most contexts PT improvements doesn't work as a measure to reduce congestion (shift people from roads to PT and the roads just refill). You have to make driving worse to get people out of their cars.

The cost of auto ownership and operation is currently artificially low. Making it more expensive is just bringing it closer the true cost

There's a cultural shift required too I think, e.g. how we do our shopping - no more big shops, or more shopping at the local instead of the big supermarket.  And then on top, we need to stop piling more and more people into town centres and instead spread out the resources (offices, local amenities, etc) to reduce the need for longer journeys.

Sebastian Cobb

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #110 on: November 21, 2018, 07:41:42 PM »
It's ok, how about delivered groceries and everyone stays in their Malvina Reynolds style boxes watching netflix and shutting the fuck up.

Lets ban matrix heaters in cars and drill holes in the roof so it's cold and wet and shit in them like it is on public transport.

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #111 on: November 21, 2018, 07:51:22 PM »
There's a cultural shift required too I think, e.g. how we do our shopping - no more big shops, or more shopping at the local instead of the big supermarket.  And then on top, we need to stop piling more and more people into town centres and instead spread out the resources (offices, local amenities, etc) to reduce the need for longer journeys.

There's actually been a reduction in road use for private autos and in young people holding licences, but it's been offset entirely by delivery vehicles.

Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #112 on: November 21, 2018, 08:14:08 PM »

Autopsy Turvey

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #113 on: November 21, 2018, 09:52:23 PM »
This isn't some grand 'anti-natalism' concept. I'm not sure the planet is sustainable within my lifetime; how can you in good faith bring someone else into this world with that looming over you?

There's a Billy Connolly routine where he talks about friends in the 80s nuclear paranoia era saying they didn't want to bring a child into this world, and makes the point that when he was conceived there was a war on, Hitler was marching about with his jodhpurs on, "Thank God my parents went 'Who cares, fuck it!'"

All I'll say is I hope this 'protest' tactic of wilfully obstructing free passage along a highway doesn't catch on. All very well when it's students and artists bleating about CO2, holding up Jim Davidson, I daresay you wouldn't want to be behind Tommy Robinson's lot bawling about Islam on your school run.

Paul Calf

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #114 on: November 21, 2018, 11:52:30 PM »
There's a host of reasons we should improve PT as mentioned in previous post, just saying that in most contexts PT improvements doesn't work as a measure to reduce congestion (shift people from roads to PT and the roads just refill). You have to make driving worse to get people out of their cars in the first place. Even then, stuff like congestion charges will usually see a rebound after a dip in use

The cost of auto ownership and operation is currently artificially low. Making it more expensive is just bringing it closer the true cost

Yeah, making driving shit is much cheaper and easier than spending money on making mass transit cheap, convenient and comfortable. Plus, peopke with children and disabled people who depend on their cars will suffer and will probably be less mobile as a result. Still, fuck them eh? Shouldn’t be disabled if they want to get around.

phes

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #115 on: November 22, 2018, 12:30:06 AM »
Yeah, making driving shit is much cheaper and easier than spending money on making mass transit cheap, convenient and comfortable. Plus, peopke with children and disabled people who depend on their cars will suffer and will probably be less mobile as a result. Still, fuck them eh? Shouldn’t be disabled if they want to get around.

Now you're just being silly. Those are the direct measures that we know to actually work to get people out of their cars and they're not going to get implemented widespread because in some locations they're regressive, and politically a disaster (though blue badge holders are exempt from most congestion and toll charges).

I don't know why you're intent on attacking them like they're my proposal.

Building transit systems isn't a very effective measure alone to getting people out of cars. Neither is incentivising those transport systems. The most effective way we know is to disincentivise auto use and provide a reliable alternative. If you can find ways that aren't regressive to disincentivise auto-use then great, I'm all for that as part of an overall strategy. Personal autos are a vital mode and will continue to be.

Potentially the single most powerful solution to reducing unnecessary auto use is the simplest one: car-sharing. It's just not realised anything like its potential, yet. But the kids don't care about car ownership the way we used to, they want convenience and value, so the transport industry should tap into that and revolutionise vehicle ownership over the next decade
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 01:16:30 AM by phes »

Lemming

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #116 on: November 22, 2018, 01:32:01 AM »
Panic over, just found out climate change isn't actually real:


Noonling

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #117 on: November 22, 2018, 02:22:08 PM »
Hives.

Bee hives.

Humans should live in bee hive like structure where each of the six hexagon nearby have all the amenities you need (and their nearby hexagons contain the resources for amenities) and you only live there if you work in those hexagons. Then no need for cars OR public transport.

Hey guys, I just solved global warming.

Oh, also no international business any more but hey ho.

biggytitbo

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #118 on: November 22, 2018, 02:35:02 PM »
Why do these SELFISH TWATS have to ruin the perfectly enjoyable planetary extinction the rest of us are having?

biggytitbo

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Re: Extinction Rebellion
« Reply #119 on: November 22, 2018, 05:37:14 PM »
Just occurred to me this is another thing Nigel Kneale got right



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