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Simon and Garfunkel

Started by MoonDust, November 18, 2018, 03:11:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

SteveDave

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on November 18, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
Their most beautiful song is "America"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo2ZsAOlvEM

The ambiguous melancholy of it.

This song gets me misty eyed every time it pops up. For a while "Most Of The Time" by Bob Dylan did too and it would strike while I was shopping for beans or sutin and I'd have to have a sit down in Sainsbury's for a bit. Even if I skipped the song I'd be doubled over. Music.

Brundle-Fly

Slight tangent. Beautiful acapella version of Fifty Ways To Leave Your Lover. If you like this sort of thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-SRqQ04_zE

MoonDust

Listened to the live in Central Park today at work and realised I've already heard Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard, as I immediately recognised it off the Royal Tenenbaums.

I know that's actual Paul Simon's and not an S&G song. But still, I love moments like this; when you delve into an artist expecting it all to be new but then recognise a song and be like "ahhh, I know this! Just didn't know it was this artist."

mojo filters

I love both of the Central Park concerts, but despite the tension behind the scenes - as an avid Simon & Garfunkel fan, I especially love the Paul Simon solo songs they sang together live on that fantastic recording.

By the time I managed to see Simon & Garfunkel live in 2005, the only Paul Simon solo track they did was American Tune. Not surprising, as Art Garfunkel has performed that in even the grumpiest solo gigs of his I've seen.

For great renditions of both S&G and Paul Simon classics, I recommend buying the circa 2000 live DVD (recorded over two nights in Paris) that Paul Simon released after touring his rather bland You're The One album. His epic version of I Am A Rock is worth the price alone, plus he avoids some of the cheesey lounge-jazz takes that plague some earlier live versions of S&G classics.

Mantle Retractor

This was the compilation that got me into them at the age of 14 or so:



The live versions of Kathy's Song and For Emily, Whenever I May Find Her are both supreme and are miles ahead of their respective studio versions.

When the Old Friends box set surfaced in the late 90s it unearthed a real gem - a cover of Jackson C. Frank's Blues Run The Game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qep6-X4nf4I

and Paul Simon produced Jackson C. Frank's album, which is well worth a listen. There's some gold on there and the chap had a really sad, tragic life. He was a definite early influence on Simon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0va3F2PWBJc




Nowhere Man

Quote from: mojo filters on November 19, 2018, 05:28:25 PM
I love both of the Central Park concerts, but despite the tension behind the scenes - as an avid Simon & Garfunkel fan, I especially love the Paul Simon solo songs they sang together live on that fantastic recording.

By the time I managed to see Simon & Garfunkel live in 2005, the only Paul Simon solo track they did was American Tune. Not surprising, as Art Garfunkel has performed that in even the grumpiest solo gigs of his I've seen.

Simon's greater level of solo success i'd wager has been something of a sticking point for Garfunkel (and i don't doubt Paul would have rubbed that in with glee to Art)

Looking at the Concert In Central Park DVD there were 20 song performances on that set. (plus a reprise of Paul's 'Late In The Evening') 10 of which are Simon & Garfunkel recorded songs, 1 solo Garfunkel tune and a whopping 9 Paul Simon solo songs! So Art had every right to be pissed off with Paul chucking in so many of his solo tunes for what was billed as their reunion.

But Bright Eyes probably sold more than any Paul Simon single, at least in the UK, where it was the biggest single of 1979 and a million selling number one for six weeks so at least old Garf's got that in his bag.

For Emily, Whenever I May Find Her is the purest stuff imaginable. heart on sleeve perfection. hell yes it's made me cry a few times

grassbath

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on November 18, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
Their most beautiful song is "America"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo2ZsAOlvEM

The ambiguous melancholy of it.

"Kathy, I'm lost," I said
Though I knew she was sleeping


What the fuck is it about that line? Absolutely kills me. I thought of posting the next few, but then I realised that no, it's just that. It's that one where the magic is.

jobotic

I'd completely forgotten about A Poem On The Underground Wall. Wonderful. I don't there was anything twee about them - when I first heard this aged about 12 thought it had a real edge to it. They do spit out words sometimes. I mean alright they did Feelin' Groovy but even so.

purlieu

Quote from: MoonDust on November 19, 2018, 05:30:45 AM
That's right. I think it's the album version they overdubbed. At least it is on my Spotify version.
The acoustic version is on their debut, Wednesday Morning 3AM. The overdubbed band version is on the album of the (almost) same name, which followed.

Sounds of Silence, Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme and Bridge Over Troubled Water are all exceptional albums of immense beauty. Wonderfully touching expansive melodies. Never got into the debut or Bookends much though.

Emma Raducanu

NObODy ever mentions Bleecker Street, which I don't get because it's basically one of the most beautiful songs ever made by a human being.

Certainly it wasn't on my parent's compilation I listened to in the car for all those years, so I didn't discover it until a few years ago.

Is it such a lesser song of theirs? Sure it's my favourite.

https://youtu.be/32DdLaAWtB8

Mantle Retractor

QuoteNObODy ever mentions Bleecker Street, which I don't get because it's basically one of the most beautiful songs ever made by a human being.

Good shout, I love this song and also Sparrow which follows it on the debut album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FniUPxpYYAU

If Paul Simon never wrote another note following the split in 1970 he'd still have left behind an immense back catalogue.

MoonDust

Just been back and forth messaging my mum on WhatsApp. Apparently she's been a life long S&G fan and I never realised. I think I've talked to her the most about a musical artist tonight than I have my whole life.

jobotic

Quote from: DolphinFace on November 20, 2018, 09:16:39 PM
NObODy ever mentions Bleecker Street, which I don't get because it's basically one of the most beautiful songs ever made by a human being.

Certainly it wasn't on my parent's compilation I listened to in the car for all those years, so I didn't discover it until a few years ago.

Is it such a lesser song of theirs? Sure it's my favourite.

https://youtu.be/32DdLaAWtB8

Never heard that it's lovely. lots of bits are reused in April Come She Will unless it's my imagination?

grassbath

Quote from: DolphinFace on November 20, 2018, 09:16:39 PM
NObODy ever mentions Bleecker Street, which I don't get because it's basically one of the most beautiful songs ever made by a human being.

Certainly it wasn't on my parent's compilation I listened to in the car for all those years, so I didn't discover it until a few years ago.

Is it such a lesser song of theirs? Sure it's my favourite.

https://youtu.be/32DdLaAWtB8

You're not alone, I have always championed this gorgeous song for the S&G hall of fame. Used to have it set as my morning alarm.

Quote from: purlieu on November 20, 2018, 08:38:06 PM
Never got into the debut or Bookends much though.

Bookends I think is brilliant, provided you skip directly over the hideous 'Save the Life of My Child' and can at the very least put up with 2 minutes and 7 seconds of 'Voices of Old People.' On any other album these tracks would just be slightly dodgy experiments but somehow they are placed disastrously and as a result the album doesn't flow at all, even with a wealth of great songs.

'Punky's Dilemma' is very underrated.


mojo filters

I love Save The Life Of My Child! It was Paul Simon expanding his musical pallette in line with the style of the time, showing he could write more diverse material.

I do think the experimental / conceptual elements of that album fail when it comes to Voices Of Old People, but at least it got Artie his one and only S&G songwriting credit. Technically the other co-credits he received were purely for arrangements rather than writing.

He did at least one solo album where he co-wrote the songs with a young band, who then subsequently toured them with him (and were the opening act too) around 2001. He spent the whole fucking gig musing pretentiously about his songwriting craft, then fucked off skipping the encore.

He also was not happy with the sound, though to be fair that's not unusual for music gigs in that venue. Mark Kozelek even mentioned it in a lyric, having played the same venue years later as his first and likely last ever gig in that town!

the science eel

Bookends is the one the critics tend to go for, isn't it?

popcorn

The thing about Simon and Garfunkel is that, apparently, they weren't really respected by critics at the time. Wikipedia goes into a bit of detail about this (with good sources) but not much. I'd like to know more about it.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: mojo filters on November 21, 2018, 10:36:04 AM

I do think the experimental / conceptual elements of that album fail when it comes to Voices Of Old People.

I think it's beautiful. I find elderly NY Jewish voices captivating.

Just a room. Your  own room...and your own home

manticore

Quote from: popcorn on November 21, 2018, 02:39:26 PM
The thing about Simon and Garfunkel is that, apparently, they weren't really respected by critics at the time. Wikipedia goes into a bit of detail about this (with good sources) but not much. I'd like to know more about it.

There's always been a criticism of S&G right back as far as I remember to the 70s (and clearly before) that they were producing safe, cosy music for the hip liberal middle-classes that hinted at nice ideals without really challenging anything. Music ideal for the 'me generation'. The smooth and polished aura and production style added to that feeling, as reflected in the critical disparagements cited in the wiki article. Similar in some respects to jibes at CSN&Y (which I generally agree with).

I think there's some justice in those complaints, particularly in the context of the time, but it doesn't diminish that they did make some lovely music, though I wish they'd gone easier on the (over) production.

Quote from: grassbath on November 19, 2018, 11:00:15 PM
"Kathy, I'm lost," I said
Though I knew she was sleeping


What the fuck is it about that line? Absolutely kills me. I thought of posting the next few, but then I realised that no, it's just that. It's that one where the magic is.

The rest of the lyrics are ostensibly upbeat in a 60s/70s free spirit sort of way, and then that verse is like an acknowledgment that not only is there something that feels hollow and empty about it all, but also that that feeling seems to evade any attempt at expression. People pretending to be happy.

Contrary to manticore above, they were critics of the "me generation" more than anything else. Lots of their popular songs have that broad theme.

mojo filters

Their 1969 Christmas TV special "Songs Of America" was pretty controversial at the time, with original sponsors AT&T withdrawing support.

However I guess the fact that what they produced was not quite what those who commissioned it originally expected, is potentially indicative of the specific critical narrative referenced above.

Nevertheless their commentary on issues like Vietnam was nothing new, having notably recorded "7 O'Clock News/Silent Night" from the album Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Time.

manticore

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on November 22, 2018, 12:07:57 AM
The rest of the lyrics are ostensibly upbeat in a 60s/70s free spirit sort of way, and then that verse is like an acknowledgment that not only is there something that feels hollow and empty about it all, but also that that feeling seems to evade any attempt at expression. People pretending to be happy.

Contrary to manticore above, they were critics of the "me generation" more than anything else. Lots of their popular songs have that broad theme.

Obviously it would have to be a pre-emptive critique since they stopped recording before the 'me generation' really manifested itself and was labelled as such. I don't know which songs you're referring too, but I think it's a fair cricism that S&G were quite a safe thing to listen as even when they conveyed a sense of melancholy and a vague alienation it was in a way that didn't really threaten or disturb, especially with the polished sound of the music, with the edges smoothed off. The introspectiveness and impressionistic lyricism goes with that feeling.

I think 'I am a Rock' would have fitted particularly well with people looking for redemption through self expression in the Human Potential movement or encounter groups, as would 'Bridge Over Troubled Water'. You'd put on one of their LPs in the background as you smoked a joint and talked about 'finding yourself'. Whatever Simon's intentions, their music went down well as marketed lifestyle angst.

I used to babysit for people who liked things like S&G, James Taylor, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell, very nice people, and the sort of people I'm talking about.

Still quite like them though, and those sort of criticisms could be made of a lot of poular music in similar ways. Happy to be contradicted in any of this.

sevendaughters

not sure that works. for instance I find Lana del Ray a pure product, a confection of our times, a safe vessel for the return of conservatism, but some people find a real release, critique, and politics in her music, and I think I'd be a prick to deny that because she's not trying to be like Crass.

Mr Banlon


McFlymo

Quote from: sevendaughters on November 19, 2018, 09:39:51 AM
this version with Andy Williams sitting in is special: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_T7HgZKZjo

Art and Andy's harmony at around 1:56 with "Then she'll be..." actually just thumped me right in the chest. Dear me!! That hit deep.

I grew up knowing Graceland by Paul Simon, (one my dad's car CDs on constant repeat) and I always loved Simon & Garfunkel's Greatest Hits.

I was always a bit put off chasing up their other stuff - I think this is the problem with Greatest Hits albums, you assume there's nothing left of value to check out, but very often, all my favourite music by artists aren't the big hits!

But finally, very recently I put on the Bookends album, which was surprisingly quirky and leftfield, but still manages to capture their amazing songwriting, harmonies and lyrics.

I'm totally blown away by them, over the last couple of days I've been checking out more of their live albums. They were great live and even on their 82 reunion show, their voices were perfect.

One song I'm curious about: Does anyone know the story behind "A Simple Desultory Philippic"? All I can find online is that Paul Simon wrote it mocking Bob Dylan's style of singing, but in the lyrics it seems he's being quite scathing about Dylan, was there more to a rivalry between them or something?

Also, absolutely love everything about their studio recording. I like how you can hear them running out of tracks and having to free up some on songs (I think this happens with Mrs. Robinson) and love all the clangy reverb and imperfections to the timings and stuff. Love those rough edges.

Thats something that gives a lot of 60's and 70's recordings a bit of charm, are thr rougher recordings. Modern pop is very polished and all mistakes are Auto tuned out. I've found its the chance vocal infelctions that are my favourite bits in songs.

Custard

#57
Bit of an obvious one, but solo-wise I love Art's go at I Only Have Eyes For You

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ikfwXOtqE