Author Topic: Smash Bros Ultimate  (Read 7740 times)

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2018, 11:38:45 PM »
Anyone tried the online using wifi? Don't have an ethernet adaptor or Nintendo online but I'm kind of tempted.

Also where is my shitting Piranha Plant? I've claimed my gold points but still no code in my inbox.

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2018, 12:37:01 AM »
Not tried yet. But will probably buy ether net adapter. Plant not out yet, but you'll get him when he is.

Good fun. I had forgot what usually happens during the credits of classic mode and this version made me laugh out loud.

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2018, 01:18:49 AM »
The levels look fantastic with the new lighting effects and textures, but I think the charachters look a bit crap compared to Wii U - especially their faces.

Marth is borderline cross eyed in his victory screen.

Which I see a lot, because Marth is my fucking boi

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2018, 09:43:36 PM »
Haven’t played an SSB game for years and years and am a bit overwhelmed at the moment. Chaos!

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2018, 10:42:15 PM »
Excited. Working on an excuse to get this now.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2018, 10:51:53 PM »
Bought it. Never really played a Smash game before.

Tbh I find it a bit dull. The adventure mode is a boring grind, I cant really get used to the fighting system, no idea how the spirits should be used and multiplayer is laggy. Gonna try to git gud but if I still feel the same way next month I probably sell it. DBZ Fighterz is more fun imo.

Soundtrack is great though.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2018, 11:23:35 PM »
Timbo, play Classic Mode to get the hang of the 1v1 combat and unlock fighters more quickly. The Adventure Mode is packed with stuff but it's not actually the bread and butter of the game and is totally overwhelming.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2018, 11:31:36 PM »
Thanks for the advice! Gonna try that tomorrow.

Kelvin

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2018, 11:34:57 PM »
The World of Light stuff is rubbish. Play classic mode, it's way more fun, and much better paced.

Been playing this all day with my mates. Marth is dead to me now I have Chrom and Little Mac unlocked. They're pure bliss to play.

As for online; we found it mostly very smooth, bar one matchup, which was pretty awful. Still wish Nintendo would let me invite friends for a game, as several of us here have been online at the same time, and it would be so much easier to join up that way.


Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2018, 11:24:27 AM »
Here’s a beginners question (despite loving Nintendo, this is my first ever Smash Bros).

My biggest problem is falling off. With Kirby I can jump back on (by keep pressing X) but with Mario, if I’m off, I’m off. Is that right or am I missing something obvious?

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2018, 11:46:07 AM »
Also a noob here but I've picked up a few helpful bits and bobs, I think.

First one is that the up + B special is really useful with most characters I've played. Some characters like Fox will properly soar in the direction that you press, and I think Pit is similar, so that's helped me recover a lot. Everyone has some upward thrust though which is really helpful.

Second thing I've concluded is that unless you get properly smashed off and die, you can usually float most of the way back as long as you don't immediately waste your double jumps. Just hold back towards the stage (you can see your position on the map, right?) and then as you get closer you can use your two jumps and then up + B, as necessary. Obviously, using your jump when you're off the screen before you've fallen too far is also important but I'd say you've normally got enough options to get back if you don't mash them all away in a panic.


Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2018, 11:54:24 AM »
Yup, your double-jump and Up+Special is usually all you get (more jumps with characters like Kirby/Jigglypuff etc).

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2018, 12:00:34 PM »
Played some more.

My main issue is that it never feels like I deserved a win. It all feels very luck based no skill involved random button mashing which makes it a bit unfuriating.

Kelvin

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2018, 12:13:08 PM »
Played some more.

My main issue is that it never feels like I deserved a win. It all feels very luck based no skill involved random button mashing which makes it a bit unfuriating.

Are you playing with items in or off? I can assure you, with items off, it's very skilled based and the better player will almost always win with their preferred charachters.

My friend is still here, but once he's gone, I'll write up a bunch of tips for starting out. The game does a terrible job of explaining the more advanced mechanics. Id be up for online too

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2018, 03:22:15 PM »
My main issue is that it never feels like I deserved a win. It all feels very luck based no skill involved random button mashing which makes it a bit unfuriating.
I'm no Smash authority (all I've got to show for is about three hours on this latest game only) but my instincts tell me that's the accessible, surface-level layer of the game, and as Kelvin points out, there is a beautiful game encouraging expertise hiding underneath if you want to invest more time.

As an aside, can you imagine just how difficult that is to get right? Nintendo's craft is top notch.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2018, 03:38:12 PM »
Well, it's obviously not primarily luck based or there wouldn't be a massive competitive scene but for someone who's well into fighting games, I thought similarly for the longest time. This is the first one I've actually bothered trying to learn in any way or try to think about strategy at all and I realise I've not even started scratching the surface. Absolutely loving it though, working my way through Classic Mode and dipping into online every so often for a couple of rounds. It's all damn good fun at this point. It's also amazing how different each character is, for the most part, and how weird and diverse the movesets are. As Twed says, how the hell do you balance that? It's astonishing, but everyone seems viable and nobody seems OP.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2018, 04:16:07 PM »
Are you playing with items in or off? I can assure you, with items off, it's very skilled based and the better player will almost always win with their preferred charachters.

My friend is still here, but once he's gone, I'll write up a bunch of tips for starting out. The game does a terrible job of explaining the more advanced mechanics. Id be up for online too

I'm playing World of Light and Classics mainly. Just don't like those modes as much as expected. And tips would be great!!!!

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As an aside, can you imagine just how difficult that is to get right? Nintendo's craft is top notch.

At the moment DBZ Fighterz and the latest Soul Calibur offline modes make me feel like I have to earn the fight. Mostly World of Light feels really luck based.

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Well, it's obviously not primarily luck based or there wouldn't be a massive competitive scene but for someone who's well into fighting games, I thought similarly for the longest time.

Local multiplayer and online is indeed a different story, but all offline modes feel really really luck based. I was really looking forward to World of Light and it's quite disappointing that it's mediocre.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2018, 04:20:14 PM »
Classic Mode doesn't seem luck based at all to me, and WoL is very much dependent on your build so it encourages variety and experimentation. At first I won a few from mashing but then hit a few walls. Having gone back to that mode after plenty of Classic, I can see how much build balance is required. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by luck.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2018, 05:54:04 PM »

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2018, 06:51:25 PM »

I actually laughed with shock when I first saw it. It's unfathomable.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2018, 07:06:45 PM »
Looking forward to all the NSFW art.

Kelvin

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2018, 08:59:39 PM »
I'm playing World of Light and Classics mainly. Just don't like those modes as much as expected.

Ah, I thought you meant online. In that case, I actually agree that there isn't much skill involved. Most fights at medium difficulty can be won by moving and making ample use of smash attacks; a tactic that won't work by itself against decent human players.

I've said it repeatedly in this thread, by Smash has never been good in single player. It's been "quite good" at absolute best - and I'd consider Classic mode in this game to be at the upper end of that scale. World of Light is only bearable for about 15 minutes at a time. It's just too repetitive. Although I do find some of the harder battles a little bit more fun, as you actually have to play a tiny bit more tactically. 

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And tips would be great!!!!

Get good at rolling through and away from enemies, rather than trying to run. You have brief invincibility, and you move the perfect distance to get behind enemies and hit (or reposition) them, or to move out of the range of (most) standard attacks. Played well, Smash is like a dance, with the characters constantly moving around each other, trying to control space. Only run to close distances fast or get momentum.   

Air dodging is useful too, although it has a long recovery lag in this game, meaning it's punishable by good players, but still useful against air attacks and to reposition where you want to land. Dodge as they jump towards you, so they miss, and then press down to land faster. The risk is that you're vulnerable after doing an air dodge, and players on the ground will charge up powerful attacks knowing where you're going to land. That's how many kills happen; predicting that landing area and being ready to hit hard while the airborne player lacks movement options. Again, it's all about controlling the space.

The best players also learn which moves spike airborne enemies directly downwards, so they can't get back on the stage, but it's hard to do, and risks you falling off the stage yourself.

You might know this already, but breaking a shield stuns your opponent for a looooong while, but some characters are better than others at breaking them. Richter has the range, but is awful at reducing shields, whereas Little Mac decimates them, and Marth even has a move (his standing special) which shatters them instantly.

In fact, as Bosto mentioned upthread, almost every character has a very different play style than most others, with subtle and not so subtle pros and cons. Sword fighters generally have instant counters (always their down special), for example. Ganondorf can kill an opponent in only two well placed smash attacks.  Marth does massive damage with the tip of his sword, but much less with the base. Some characters like Samus, Isabelle and Young link have attacks that pull them back to the stage (their hookshots and fishing lines). Ryu and Ken do more damage if you use Street Fighter inputs. Lucario gets vastly more powerful as he takes more damage - the difference it makes to his moves is crazy. Shulk can completely change his speed, jump height, damage output, smash attack potency and defense by pressing special attack, but at the cost of something else.......... etc       

Oh, and not gameplay based, but some of you might not realise you can turn specific levels off under rules, and allocate specific music to them in the options screen, under audio. Turn off songs your don't like, or increase the frequency of ones you do like, in there.

I'll write more later. Let me know who you like playing as, and if I know them well enough, I can maybe tell you some of their less obvious quirks.

Kelvin

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2018, 09:03:46 PM »
Oh, and Link's smash moves might seem crap, but they're actually amazing if you do two; one instantly after the other. It's the second swing that does massive damage and hits them for miles.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #83 on: December 10, 2018, 06:56:17 AM »
Thanks for all the tips, definitely a lot there I'll be working on. I can't get over how viable every character seems so far. That's remarkable.

I guess the stuff I'm really thinking about would be:

- When you knock someone off and they grab the ledge, they seem to have i-frames to help them get back up safely. What's the way to pressure them then?

- Is it most important to attack them before they even get back to the ledge? I keep attempting that, sometimes hitting, sometimes missing and sometimes killing myself in the process. Should I save that riskier strategy til they're close to being finished, or do I just need to get good?

- Is Ryu for casuals and do you see loads of them online? I was tearing it up with him before with the flaming hadouken but I don't want to main a total noob character (until I unlock Ken and I don't give a shit.)

- It seems to encourage lots of air play and jumping around but I also find I'm vulnerable if I jump loads. Am I doing it wrong? Biggest noob error in SF is random jumping, is this similar? I find the aerial attacks pretty much nullified with some characters and devastating with others, so I guess it's not a simple answer.

I'm sure I'll have loads more.


Kelvin

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2018, 06:46:43 PM »
- When you knock someone off and they grab the ledge, they seem to have i-frames to help them get back up safely. What's the way to pressure them then?

It depends, because they can choose to get back up via either an attack, a jump or a roll, based on what button they press. Air is obviously the riskiest for them, but can pay the biggest dividends, and their invincibility frames only last for a few moments, before they become vulnerable, which forces them to decide quick. I prefer to edge guard while they approach, then hold back if they reach the ledge. 

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- Is it most important to attack them before they even get back to the ledge? I keep attempting that, sometimes hitting, sometimes missing and sometimes killing myself in the process. Should I save that riskier strategy til they're close to being finished, or do I just need to get good?

Yes, that's the pro method, but I've never been all that good at the most effective attacks of that kind, as they're very high risk/reward. If you don't connect, you risk missing the ledge or landing on it after them, and losing that ground advantage. Although you do knock a hanging person off the ledge if you grab it before they climb back up.

Projectile characters are at their best here, as they stop people getting back, and can even smash them off screen if powerful enough.

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- Is Ryu for casuals and do you see loads of them online? I was tearing it up with him before with the flaming hadouken but I don't want to main a total noob character (until I unlock Ken and I don't give a shit.)

No, Ryu is considered fairly high tier, although there's a lot of debate around all those rankings right now, and I don't know how much bearing it really has on anyone bar the best players who understand all the frame data, etc. My Smash friend had Ryu as one of his mains in Wii U, but he seems to think he was a lot less good in Ultimate, and Ken even worse than that, so I defer to him, as someone who knows the character fairly well.

On the other hand, I used to match Ryu off against Little Mac, who is miles better this time, and currently my best character in Ultimate, so it might just be our match up that influenced his opinion.

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- It seems to encourage lots of air play and jumping around but I also find I'm vulnerable if I jump loads. Am I doing it wrong? Biggest noob error in SF is random jumping, is this similar? I find the aerial attacks pretty much nullified with some characters and devastating with others, so I guess it's not a simple answer.

It definitely depends on the character. I love love love Little Mac, who moves like lightning and hits like a steam train, but is basically dead the second he's in the air, whereas other characters need to keep moving, hitting from above, landing, rolling around the enemy, then leaping off again. With the exception of oddities like Little Mac, fast characters - and especially sword fighters - are generally all about air attacks, and the "back air" and "up air" are often particularly heavy hitting and lethal. Depends on the character, though.   

You're basically more vulnerable in the air, but it's essential for inflicting damage on vertical levels, racking up quick attacks and controlling space.

Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2018, 09:19:16 PM »
Thanks, man. I'll be studying and keeping the advice in mind. Even more complex and character dependent than I imagined, serious depth, as I say it's remarkable how well balanced it is.

I've found that Ganondorf has brought me a bit of success this evening from thinking about what you said. He seems to be very vulnerable whenever I jump or get knocked in the air and his recovery is shit when I get knocked off but if I try to stay central and play defensively and time a few big hits, I've done a fair bit of damage. Less of an option one on one but in a FFA it tends to result in a few KOs.

I'm just looking forward to unlocking Ken, really, got about fifty characters now but still no sign of the bugger!

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2018, 09:35:28 PM »
I'll be honest, I'm really enjoying spirits mode. Easy to pick up and whack a couple of rounds out between things. It's also chock full of references for every nerd of the spectrum. Like Ashley from Another Code's partner being invisible, because he was a ghost in the game, like.

Kelvin

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2018, 09:41:59 PM »
Thanks, man. I'll be studying and keeping the advice in mind. Even more complex and character dependent than I imagined, serious depth, as I say it's remarkable how well balanced it is.

I've found that Ganondorf has brought me a bit of success this evening from thinking about what you said. He seems to be very vulnerable whenever I jump or get knocked in the air and his recovery is shit when I get knocked off but if I try to stay central and play defensively and time a few big hits, I've done a fair bit of damage. Less of an option one on one but in a FFA it tends to result in a few KOs.

I'm just looking forward to unlocking Ken, really, got about fifty characters now but still no sign of the bugger!

Ganon's probably the charachter I most like playing without being especially good with him. When he lands a smash attack, it's better than cumming.

Try using his down special to get around quickly, but be wary of the looong cool down. His standing special is an insanely strong glowing punch, but if you press back in the opposite direct immediately after doing it, you perform the most powerful attack in the game*.

*at least historically. I'm not sure if it's still the most powerful, but he definitely does perform the move.


Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2018, 11:20:55 PM »
As someone who basically knows what they're doing, watching videos like this and reading posts like Kelvin's (thanks btw!) are opening my mind ever-more to the actual complexities of this game*. Then I go back to playing against the CPU or with friends and nobody's shielding and people are putting in the wrong inputs and winning with items and whatever and wow if this isn't the broadest of games I can remember since... other Smash titles.

*Did not know anything about perfect shields, spot-dodges or teching, or some of the characters' 'hidden' abilities...

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Re: Smash Bros Ultimate
« Reply #89 on: December 10, 2018, 11:42:50 PM »
Just opened up my copy. First impressions: Title sequence is really rubbish. Seems like Brawl was the real ‘Ultimate’, Wii U version a bit scattershot and new song for this one is completely pansy, takes one right out of the fighting mood. Game already very partially ruined.

‘Milestone achieved - Started playing Super Smash Bros Ultimate!’. Go me. That is probably my biggest gaming achievement of the year so far.

Alright, let’s get tucked in.