Author Topic: Post Beatles Beatles relationships  (Read 18776 times)

Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2018, 10:44:23 AM »
I was amazed, reading YNGMYM, at just how massively constrained they were by their contractual obligations. Many of their solo career moves make a hell of a lot more sense when put into the context of just how deep in the shit they were financially. The one I remember most acutely was Lennon delivering an album every year in first half the 70's because he'd have been sued if he didn't. In that light, it becomes much less surprising that he fucked off the recording industry entirely after that

Indeed, his five years off started the day after the EMI contract expired. He had no contract until he signed with Geffen in 1980.

Last time they "almost" met was Eric Clapton's wedding in May 1979, but Lennon "had" to cancel.

Replies From View

  • Rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Gargoyles have milk bags.
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2018, 02:04:19 PM »
the multiple live albums etc.

Overcompensating for the "Paul is dead" conspiracies, in my view.

Replies From View

  • Rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Gargoyles have milk bags.
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2018, 02:07:47 PM »
I just checked the book, and the dodgy deal was apparently one arranged by Epstein in 1967.

The other big error by Epstein was his failure to appreciate any income beyond tours and record sales, so he unwittingly handed 99% of all American merchandise income over to Nicky Byrne in the Seltaeb contract.

Epstein bitterly regretted that decision for the rest of his life apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seltaeb

SteveDave

  • My LPs are still for sale in all good record shops
    • BUY BUY BUY
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2018, 10:33:19 AM »
I can't believe no-one's mentioned George banging Maureen Starkey yet. Or George suing Ringo because he didn't like the way Ringo had recorded a song he'd written.

George was the worst Beatle. A deeply spiritual coke head who moaned about taxes and fucked anything that moved.

Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2018, 12:08:18 PM »
Or George suing Ringo because he didn't like the way Ringo had recorded a song he'd written.

I remember Ringo's reported response: "If you want to sue me, sue me. But I'll still love you."

Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2018, 12:41:38 PM »
George was the one who brought Ringo into the band, though, so Ringo owed him, but not the point of droit du seigneur.

Lennon claimed in 1970 that George had made racist remarks about Yoko.

massive bereavement

  • Representation mingles with what it represents
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2018, 01:17:28 PM »

Lennon claimed in 1970 that George had made racist remarks about Yoko.

George had heard stuff about her on one of his two trips to the USA in 68 and decided to be all up front about it to the pair of them, I don't think John ever suggested it was racist though.

 John was the reason George walked out during the Let it be film after an argument in the canteen, but everybody thinks it was Paul's fault because that was in the film. George later claimed it was because the others were jamming with Yoko and giving him a headache, but that only started after he left (he would have seen the freak out jam in the initial cut of the film before it was excised) but they were actually playing Chuck Berry's "I'm Talking About You" at the moment he decided to announce "I'm leaving the band now".

I think Lewisohn called it correctly when he stated that they all had their best relationship with John within that inner circle (Neil Aspinall, Pete Best and Stuart Sutcliffe included, everybody liked John the most), but in terms of pure friendship Ringo was the closest to him and the last to see John in person in 1980 and the only Beatle to visit Yoko after John was murdered. Paul last saw him in 1976, George probably last saw him 1974 with much tension between them, I think George does claim somewhere that he did at least speak to him once more around 77/78 but the auto-biography that followed in 79 would suggest they hadn't really patched things up.


Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2018, 01:29:23 PM »
…They all needed money for divorces or struggling business projects like George's film company….

Handmade Films was mismanaged rather than something that struggled.

Harrison’s business manager, Denis O’Brien had very grandiose ideas and wanted creative input, both of which were disastrous.  If the company had kept to the original idea – churn out a small number of films, which were interesting and were faithful to a creative vision, chances are it would have continued nicely. If something was a flop, it wouldn’t bring the whole business come crashing down and now and then, a film would do very nicely indeed.

Instead, O’Brien starting betting the house on turkeys like Shanghai Surprise and Water. In the case of the latter, money was taken away from A Private Function while it was being made as Water’s running costs escalated. This kind of thing isn’t that unusual – a company does better than it expected by a long chalk with one or two films and thinks it can be in the big-time by upping the ante; FilmFour is another example with Charlotte Grey, when it was drunk on the success of Trainspotting.

O’Brien started believing that he knew better than the creatives, sticking his oar in, which caused issues. I read Very Naughty Boys earlier this year, which contained a lot information about the way business was done – lots of people didn’t get paid the money due to them. Handmade’s finances were constructed out of a labyrinth of off-shore and Harrision didn’t knew that with various film funding deals, he had acted as personal guarantor.

Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2018, 06:26:09 PM »
John complained about George's autobiography in his Playboy interview from 1980 (which I still have). IIRC he says that George omitted all the songwriting help George gave him.

Lennon on George on Yoko. Fair enough, nothing racist:

Quote
How would you characterize George’s, Paul’s and Ringo’s reaction to Yoko?

It’s the same. You can quote Paul, it’s probably in the papers, he said it many times at first he hated Yoko and then he got to like her. But, it’s too late for me. I’m for Yoko. Why should she take that kind of shit from those people? They were writing about her looking miserable in the Let It Be film, but you sit through 60 sessions with the most bigheaded, up-tight people on earth and see what its fuckin’ like and be insulted – just because you love someone – and George, shit, insulted her right to her face in the Apple office at the beginning, just being ‘straight-forward,’ you know that game of ‘I’m going to be up front,’ because this is what we’ve heard and Dylan and a few people said she’d got a lousy name in New York, and you give off bad vibes. That’s what George said to her! And we both sat through it. I didn’t hit him, I don’t know why.

I could imagine Lennon being similarly bitchy about another Beatle's partner, but not to their face while both were present, surely?

Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2018, 06:38:46 PM »
I think Lennon got the wrong end of the stick with his complaints about George's 'autobiography'. I Me Mine isn't an autobiography, it's mainly song lyrics and few dozen pages of a transcribed interview with George where he barely talks about his music career at all. It's clearly not supposed to be a definitive statement on anything

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2018, 07:21:30 PM »
Someone's made some very lengthy films about the Lennon McCartney relationship here which look like the might be interesting. 90 minutes each and 4 of them! - https://www.youtube.com/user/paigeconte/videos

Nowhere Man

  • Yeah mate would love a brew, cheers x
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2018, 07:23:57 PM »
I could imagine Lennon being similarly bitchy about another Beatle's partner, but not to their face while both were present, surely?

He didn't mind being somewhat bitchy in a letter addressed to her and Paul though.

“I was reading your letter and wondering what middle aged cranky Beatle fan wrote it. I resisted looking at the last page to find out—I kept thinking who is it—Queen? Stuart’s mother?—Clive Epstein’s wife?—Alan Williams?—What the hell—it’s Linda! . . . Linda— if you don’t care what I say—shut up!—let Paul write—or whatever.”


Beagle 2

  • Silver Member
  • ****
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2018, 10:21:35 PM »
I can imagine Paul reading all that with a furrowed brow and then looking at the image at the top of the page and bursting out laughing.

Quote
you sit through 60 sessions with the most bigheaded, up-tight people on earth and see what its fuckin’ like and be insulted

Well, no I wouldn't do that, because I don't actually work there.


biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2018, 09:56:55 PM »
It's just received ignorance really. It's absolutely perfect for what it is.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when Lennon first clapped his eyes on this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHeEwiQJsY


I'm sure that was 100% a piss take from McCartney, after a couple of his songs were banned by the BBC (Hi, Hi, Hi and Give Ireland Back to the Irish I think?). Some people thought he was such a syrupy clod that he was releasing it sincerely though, missing the fact both Paul and the other Beatles always had a smashing sense of humour, cos they were Liverpudlians.

Replies From View

  • Rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Gargoyles have milk bags.
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2018, 10:37:51 PM »
It's unforgivable that he thinks lambs go "laah lah" and not "baah".

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2018, 10:50:33 PM »
That's part of the joke!

Replies From View

  • Rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Gargoyles have milk bags.
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2018, 10:57:59 PM »
No I've always found his understanding of farm animals' voices to be inexcusably poor.  This isn't a one-off.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2018, 11:38:02 PM »
I love this interview from 1968 where its clear Paul has taken all the drugs, and giggles at every funny thing john says throughout https://youtu.be/Qp0i90n0BP8

Paul inadvertently has the funniest line though - "'theres someone messing it all up... And we're going to find him" 

Replies From View

  • Rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Gargoyles have milk bags.
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2018, 11:58:10 PM »
Someone's made some very lengthy films about the Lennon McCartney relationship here which look like the might be interesting. 90 minutes each and 4 of them! - https://www.youtube.com/user/paigeconte/videos

This is very good; I have watched the first two so far.  The first one didn't really have much new stuff to show me, but the second one really shows how sensitive Paul was during the Let it Be sessions to John and Yoko's feelings.  He frequently emphasises with John's position during quiet discussions with Neil Aspinall, and when Linda starts becoming more present a bit later on, I wonder if that was Paul's attempt to bond with John's need to have Yoko around.

Interesting stuff, so thank you.  Oh and due to the fragment shown in part 2 I sought out the complete half-hour 'Two Junkies' interview.  The reflection and refraction of John's glasses makes his eyes look terrifying; they really heighten the sense of how fucked he was at that time.  It took me a while to realise his eyes weren't continually jamming upwards.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2018, 12:45:01 AM »
I skipped straight to the breaking up ones to be honest but they are full of interesting stuff I didn't know.

On the subject of the end, is that the first time a band ever deliberetly wrote a 'last song'  a conscious goodbye? It's even called the end, and they all knew it was when they recorded it. It almost seems too perfect a way to bow out considering how messy it actually was.

Bennett Brauer

  • I'm not "likeable"
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2018, 01:20:51 AM »

I'm sure that was 100% a piss take from McCartney, after a couple of his songs were banned by the BBC (Hi, Hi, Hi and Give Ireland Back to the Irish I think?). Some people thought he was such a syrupy clod that he was releasing it sincerely though, missing the fact both Paul and the other Beatles always had a smashing sense of humour, cos they were Liverpudlians.

Yeah, I can believe that to the extent that it was based on a nursery rhyme, but it's similar to Wonderful Christmastime, musically and sentimentally. So I'm not sure.

Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2018, 02:56:18 PM »
I skipped straight to the breaking up ones to be honest but they are full of interesting stuff I didn't know.

On the subject of the end, is that the first time a band ever deliberetly wrote a 'last song'  a conscious goodbye? It's even called the end, and they all knew it was when they recorded it. It almost seems too perfect a way to bow out considering how messy it actually was.

But then Macca stuck Her Majesty on because, maybe, he wasn't quite sure it was the end, even though John and George certainly were.

daf

  • Is this for posh knob 'eads?
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2018, 03:10:42 PM »
But then Macca stuck Her Majesty on because, maybe, he wasn't quite sure it was the end,

Technically, the sticker on (and accidental inventor of the hidden track) would be second engineer John Kurlander . . .

Quote
John Kurlander, had been instructed not to throw out anything, so after McCartney left, he attached the track to the end of the master tape after 20 seconds of silence.

and mastering engineer Malcolm Davies :

Quote
The tape box bore an instruction to leave "Her Majesty" off the final product, but the next day when mastering engineer Malcolm Davies received the tape, he (also trained not to throw anything away) cut a playback lacquer of the whole sequence, including "Her Majesty". The Beatles liked this effect and included it on the album.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 04:37:47 PM by daf »

Replies From View

  • Rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Gargoyles have milk bags.
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2018, 04:43:31 PM »
Yes I like the way Her Majesty undercuts their final ending gesture.  A very Beatles ending.

Apart from Free As A Bird and Real Love, that is.  And the fact that the Let It Be album was released after Abbey Road as well.


I mean just don’t have Phil Spector adding orchestras and choirs to things.  It’s surely fairly straightforward.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2018, 05:12:09 PM »
Or let Phil specter into your house if he has a gun.

Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2018, 05:31:53 PM »
it surely is pacino's greatest performance...


Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2018, 07:47:47 PM »
Forget it - shit comment.

gilbertharding

  • Not even the rudest man in the Beatles
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2018, 04:10:18 PM »
Yeah, I can believe that to the extent that it was based on a nursery rhyme, but it's similar to Wonderful Christmastime, musically and sentimentally. So I'm not sure.

Wonderful Christmas Time is fantastic though. Those synths going sproing-g-g - it's virtually the Aphex Twin.

Or maybe it's the video which is like the Platonic ideal of Christmas Eve in the village pub.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

  • a hopeless vanity... a stupefyingly futile conceit
    • Me Twitter
Re: Post Beatles Beatles relationships
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2018, 04:34:09 PM »
Fantasy post-Abbey Road Beatles album? Why not, it's something to do when you're bored. Released in 1970, the track listing is as follows...

Side one

Instant Karma! (We All Shine On)
It Don't Come Easy
Another Day
Gimme Some Truth
Monkberry Moon Delight
Wah-Wah
Mother


Side two

Maybe I'm Amazed
What Is Life
Working Class Hero
Junk
My Sweet Lord
Love
The Back Seat of My Car