Post Beatles Beatles relationships

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

Yeah it sounds pretty amazing. Hoping they print some more at some stage. Could easily see myself dipping in and out of that for years.

[SteveDave]

There's a new (to me) podcast called "Producing The Beatles" where some American fellow goes through bits of George Martin's production work on their songs. The first one deals with the piano solo on "In My Life" and goes through some of the history of varispeed recording.

The second calls Martin out for saying his arrangement for "Eleanor Rigby" was inspired by Bernard Herrman's score for "Farenheit 451" when the film was released after "Revolver" was.

I am going to rinse the rest of them ASAP.

[studpuppet]

There's a new (to me) podcast called "Producing The Beatles" where some American fellow goes through bits of George Martin's production work on their songs. The first one deals with the piano solo on "In My Life" and goes through some of the history of varispeed recording.

The second calls Martin out for saying his arrangement for "Eleanor Rigby" was inspired by Bernard Herrman's score for "Farenheit 451" when the film was released after "Revolver" was.

I am going to rinse the rest of them ASAP.

Indeedy. I'm guessing Ryan & Kehew is his main reference.

[Soup Dogg]

Since this seems to be the thread for banal to interesting Beatles comments, I only appreciated today how fucking great McCartney's vocals are on "She's a Woman", an otherwise pretty unremarkable track.

[biggytitbo]

I wonder what Harrison's thinking was in the last year of the Beatles when it was obvious they were going to break up? He had this increasing backlog of great songs he would use on his solo album, what was his rationale for which ones he'd use with the Beatles and which ones he'd save for all things must pass? His contributions to let it be are weak imo, even compared to 1967 and 68, and certainly compared to Abbey road. Then on Abbey road he hits them with arguably his 2 best ever songs, rather than saving them for his solo album and using 2 more middling efforts. I wonder if that was a conscious effort to go out on a high, and after years of been held back making a statement that he was now on a par with Lennon and McCartney?

[famethrowa]

Since this seems to be the thread for banal to interesting Beatles comments, I only appreciated today how fucking great McCartney's vocals are on "She's a Woman", an otherwise pretty unremarkable track.

God damn I hate that nursery rhyme song, it's so lazy and stupid... but yeah it's an awesome vocal, and probably fairly impossible to sing well unless you are early-60s Macca himself.

[the science eel]

I wonder what Harrison's thinking was in the last year of the Beatles when it was obvious they were going to break up? He had this increasing backlog of great songs he would use on his solo album, what was his rationale for which ones he'd use with the Beatles and which ones he'd save for all things must pass? His contributions to let it be are weak imo, even compared to 1967 and 68, and certainly compared to Abbey road. Then on Abbey road he hits them with arguably his 2 best ever songs, rather than saving them for his solo album and using 2 more middling efforts. I wonder if that was a conscious effort to go out on a high, and after years of been held back making a statement that he was now on a par with Lennon and McCartney?

errr....yes! I think you've got it.

I always loved this groovy thing, which is nothing at all like a Harrisong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km_XA-T_yvo

[Satchmo Distel]

But he had tried his best to get "All Things Must Pass" on to the Get Back album* so that would have been on Let It Be if Lennon and Macca had not snubbed it.

[SteveDave]

I wonder what Harrison's thinking was in the last year of the Beatles when it was obvious they were going to break up? He had this increasing backlog of great songs he would use on his solo album, what was his rationale for which ones he'd use with the Beatles and which ones he'd save for all things must pass? His contributions to let it be are weak imo, even compared to 1967 and 68, and certainly compared to Abbey road. Then on Abbey road he hits them with arguably his 2 best ever songs, rather than saving them for his solo album and using 2 more middling efforts. I wonder if that was a conscious effort to go out on a high, and after years of been held back making a statement that he was now on a par with Lennon and McCartney?

Except that 3/4 of "All Things Must Pass" is guff.

[Satchmo Distel]

That's about the ratio for post-Beatles product.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Except that 3/4 of "All Things Must Pass" is guff.

sir this is incorrect

[Nowhere Man]

I wish every post 1973 McCartney album was as good as Chaos & Creation. Played every instrument on it too!

[biggytitbo]

But he had tried his best to get "All Things Must Pass" on to the Get Back album* so that would have been on Let It Be if Lennon and Macca had not snubbed it.

He wrote quite a lot of his early solo songs whilst still in the Beatles didn't he? Isn't it a Pity and What is Life were also around in 1969, and he could he presumably tried to get them on Abbey Road. WHat is Life would have been a good fit at least.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

If I recall correctly, 'Isn't It a Pity' dates back even earlier than that, to 1966

[Nowhere Man]

Plus George's 'Not Guilty' and 'Sour Milk Sea' are better than some of the songs that actually made it onto the White Album.

Astonishing to think that the band could have made The White Album a triple or even quadruple disc when you look at all the songs that were written or recorded during those sessions.

John
Child Of Nature (aka Jealous Guy)
Mean Mr Mustard
Polythene Pam
What's The New Mary Jane
Hey Bulldog
Look at Me
Across the Universe

Paul
Junk
Hey Jude
Let It Be
Lady Madonna
Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Teddy Boy
The Long and Winding Road
Cosmically Conscious

George
Not Guilty
Sour Milk Sea
The Inner Light
Circles
Something

plus their 1967 recordings of:

All Together Now
It's All Too Much
Only A Northern Song
You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)

were still yet to be released! (and Carnival Of Light still hasn't!)

[SteveDave]

There's a good 2 hour podcast with Mark Lewisohn basically saying that Olivia Harrison won't speak to him because George didn't like him (and accused him of being a bootlegger).

He linked to it from his Twitter and I can't find it now.

[grassbath]

I wonder what Harrison's thinking was in the last year of the Beatles when it was obvious they were going to break up?

See, this is the thing: I don't think it was ever obvious, not to the Beatles themselves. Not in the inevitable way it looks to us now, the 'break up' as a historical artefact. There are interviews around that period - even one with George after Paul's announcement - where they seem to be viewing the split as a hiatus of sorts, time for them to work on solo stuff. A memo turned up at an auction recently, from George to the other Beatles, imploring them not to split - 'a flower on its own is pretty. A flower in a garden is beautiful.' During the Get Back sessions, there are band discussions about what George could do with all these new songs if the Beatles decide not to record them, and the band's breakup is not necessary for said album to exist.

I think they (and by 'they', really I mean 'John') knew they wanted something else, something different, a change in how things were done, but didn't quite know how to action it. And they overplayed their hand. 

Ringo 'left the Beatles' in 1968, George in '69. Both of them were making a point about how fed up they were, and in both cases, because the Beatles loved and respected each other, they succeeded and there was a short-term change of conditions when they returned. I think John's announcement later in '69 had the same intention. Really he was, in a fucked-up, going-backwards-by-coming-forwards way, trying to impose sanctions on Paul, say 'look, I mean it, I could leave, you know. You could lose me.' I think he was thrown when it ended, as much as anybody, maybe more.

[the science eel]

See, this is the thing: I don't think it was ever obvious, not to the Beatles themselves. Not in the inevitable way it looks to us now, the 'break up' as a historical artefact. There are interviews around that period - even one with George after Paul's announcement - where they seem to be viewing the split as a hiatus of sorts, time for them to work on solo stuff. A memo turned up at an auction recently, from George to the other Beatles, imploring them not to split - 'a flower on its own is pretty. A flower in a garden is beautiful.' During the Get Back sessions, there are band discussions about what George could do with all these new songs if the Beatles decide not to record them, and the band's breakup is not necessary for said album to exist.

I think they (and by 'they', really I mean 'John') knew they wanted something else, something different, a change in how things were done, but didn't quite know how to action it. And they overplayed their hand. 

Ringo 'left the Beatles' in 1968, George in '69. Both of them were making a point about how fed up they were, and in both cases, because the Beatles loved and respected each other, they succeeded and there was a short-term change of conditions when they returned. I think John's announcement later in '69 had the same intention. Really he was, in a fucked-up, going-backwards-by-coming-forwards way, trying to impose sanctions on Paul, say 'look, I mean it, I could leave, you know. You could lose me.' I think he was thrown when it ended, as much as anybody, maybe more.

Yes, I think that was almost definitely the case. I mean...who knows? but it all rings true.

Nonetheless, I don't think we lost too much by the split. A 1972 Beatles album (for example) would probably not have been a classic.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Indeed, the 1970 one is arguably borderline

[Satchmo Distel]

There's a good 2 hour podcast with Mark Lewisohn basically saying that Olivia Harrison won't speak to him because George didn't like him (and accused him of being a bootlegger).

He linked to it from his Twitter and I can't find it now.

https://www.zfstockill.com/part-one-mark-lewisohn/

[biggytitbo]

I always thought they went into Abbey Road knowing it was the end. Isn't that why it (almost) ends with the end?

[Nowhere Man]

Nothing is more astonishing as a reminder of how good they were together that they could make something as glorious as 'Abbey Road' right after the Get Back sessions. Considering much of the melody is just scraps too. I don't even actively dislike 'Let It Be' or anything, but it really makes Spector's production look like shit in comparison.

[SteveDave]

Lennon himself said that Imagine was "Working Class Hero with sugar on", in his open letter to Macca:

http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1971.11jp.beatles.html

But he seems to be coked up to the gills in that letter.

I don't know why I'd not read that letter before but fuckinell he's up and down like a bride's nightie.

[biggytitbo]

Nothing is more astonishing as a reminder of how good they were together that they could make something as glorious as 'Abbey Road' right after the Get Back sessions. Considering much of the melody is just scraps too. I don't even actively dislike 'Let It Be' or anything, but it really makes Spector's production look like shit in comparison.

Abbey Road is still a pretty flawed album though isnt it? I don't mind Maxwells Silver hammer but it's obviously a very second tier effort, ditto Octopus's Garden. I want you sounds like its from a different record, and Lennon's contributions to the medley at the end are dog dirt. I don't think Sun King and She Came In Through the Bathroom Window are either Lennon or McCartney in particularly great form either. But the rest of it is fucking stellar.

If they'd ditched Let It Be (as they probably would have if they werent contractually obliged to produce another film), and put its best songs - Get Back, Across the Universe, Two of Us, Don't Let Me Down and Let It Be on Abbey Road instead, thats hands down the best album ever made.

[biggytitbo]

We had a lot of fun with the Beatles 1970 what if, so how about a Let It Be was sacked off and they used its best songs on Abbey Road instead what if?

1.   Come Together
2.   Something
3.   The Two Of Us
4.   Don't Let Me Down
5.   Get Back
6.   All Things Must Pass

1.   Here Comes the Sun
2.   Let It Be
3.   Across the Universe
4.   You Never Give Me Your Money
5.   Dig It
6.   Golden Slumbers
7.   Carry That Weight
8.   The End
9.   Her Majesty

Not entirely sure about Side 2 tbh, but the current songs on it barely have any relation to each other so i reckon they could have stitched anything together and make it work. Could have What is Life instead of All Things Must Pass if it doesn't fit the mood of it.

[MiddleRabbit]

Abbey Road is still a pretty flawed album though isnt it? I don't mind Maxwells Silver hammer but it's obviously a very second tier effort, ditto Octopus's Garden. I want you sounds like its from a different record, and Lennon's contributions to the medley at the end are dog dirt. I don't think Sun King and She Came In Through the Bathroom Window are either Lennon or McCartney in particularly great form either. But the rest of it is fucking stellar.

If they'd ditched Let It Be (as they probably would have if they werent contractually obliged to produce another film), and put its best songs - Get Back, Across the Universe, Two of Us, Don't Let Me Down and Let It Be on Abbey Road instead, thats hands down the best album ever made.

Octopus's Garden is much maligned.  It's by far Ringo's best song, even if George helped quite a lot.  The subject matter and George's Leslied guitar detracts from the reality that it's Country & Western song, but it's still great.

The thing about Abbey Road is that it was a blueprint for the 1970s: that shiny, pristine coating that none of their other records have, not to say that there's much wrong with the rest of heir output, at least in terms of the sound of the things.

As for these hypothetical post Beatles albums comprising their early solo records, I don't get it.  Even towards the end of The Beatles, they edited and combined their songs which was a big part of why Lennon and Macca add up to more than the sum of their parts together.  They always had veto over each other and that tends to be forgotten.
No: Biggy - Bear in mind that Don't Let Me Down wasn't even on the original Let It Be.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I don't think Sun King and She Came In Through the Bathroom Window are either Lennon or McCartney in particularly great form either.

a slight song for sure, but the lead in ("OH LOOK OUT!) and the call and response between the vocals and lead guitar really make it

[Satchmo Distel]

Across The Universe is really 1968 and thus not suited to this setting. Cold Turkey might be worth considering as well as Maybe I'm Amazed or Instant Karma

I'm stretching the criteria to anything recorded before the release date of Let It Be.

[Satchmo Distel]

Come Together
Something
Get Back
Maybe I'm Amazed
Instant Karma
Let It Be

Here Comes The Sun
Get Back
Don't Let Me Down
You Never Give Me Your Money
Golden Slumbers
Carry That Weight
The End

[Howj Begg]

Not having this nonsense I've had to read on this thread. Polythene Pam and Bathroom Window are great songs with cracking guitar and rhythm tracks.