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March 28, 2024, 09:49:47 AM

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Post Beatles Beatles relationships

Started by biggytitbo, November 24, 2018, 10:20:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

biggytitbo

My 70/71 offering:

Too Many People
It Don't Come Easy
Mother
Maybe Im Amazed
Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey
Imagine
All Things Must Pass

Love
That Would be Something
Instant Karma
What is Life
Another Day
Jealous Guy
Long Haired Lady

Tomorrow
Gimme Some Truth
Monkberry Moon Delight
Isnt it a Pity
Ram On
Some People Never Know

My Sweet Lord
Backseat of My Car
Little Lamb Dragonfly
Power to the People
Dear Friend
God

I've probably ballsed the timings right up, but that is a good album.


Ballad of Ballard Berkley

That is a good album. A classic, in fact. The only thing I'd change about your track-listing is the placement of Mother between It Don't Come Easy and Maybe I'm Amazed. It's such a harrowing song, I think it really needs to be placed at the end of a side to give people time to breathe afterwards.

I know John started the Plastic Ono Band album with it, but that made sense as it's such a raw, introspective record. Straight away it declares: "Strap in, folks, this isn't going to be an easy ride." On a Beatles album, however, it should be a raw, powerful bookend.

That's my two cents anyway.

biggytitbo

Good point, I'm not happy with the sequencing as I cobbled it together in about 10 minutes. I wanted to make sure there was a Harrison on every side and all 3 got an opener and a final track. The inside bits are just a jumble though. And it's harder to gets Pauls right as there are a lot more to choose from.

Hard work sequencing an album isn't it?

grassbath

'Great,' I think, 'a thread on CaB discussing and analysing in-depth the actual histories and relationships of those four fascinating chaps the Beatles!' And it turns into another 'what if' fantasy album circle jerk.

Sorry, this is a massive pet peeve of mine. I appreciate that there's interest in it and I'm sure the playlists are very enjoyable to listen to. But this stuff is so done. There's so much still to talk and think about with the lives they *actually* lived.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: biggytitbo on December 04, 2018, 08:33:21 PM
Hard work sequencing an album isn't it?

Bloody hard work, la. I've rejigged yours slightly...

Too Many People
It Don't Come Easy
Imagine
Maybe Im Amazed
Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey
All Things Must Pass
Mother

Tomorrow
What Is Life
That Would be Something
Love
Another Day
Jealous Guy
Long Haired Lady

Instant Karma!
Oh My Love
Monkberry Moon Delight
Gimme Some Truth
Isn't It a Pity
Some People Never Know
Early 1970

Backseat of My Car
Power to the People
Little Lamb Dragonfly
My Sweet Lord
Dear Friend
God


What do you reckon? I replaced Ram On with Early 1970, as Ringo in all likelihood would have more than one song on a double album. You need a bit of doleful Ringo charm in there somewhere.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: grassbath on December 04, 2018, 08:59:42 PM
'Great,' I think, 'a thread on CaB discussing and analysing in-depth the actual histories and relationships of those four fascinating chaps the Beatles!' And it turns into another 'what if' fantasy album circle jerk.

Sorry, this is a massive pet peeve of mine. I appreciate that there's interest in it and I'm sure the playlists are very enjoyable to listen to. But this stuff is so done. There's so much still to talk and think about with the lives they *actually* lived.

I really am so dreadfully sorry.

non capisco

Backseat Of My Car is such a fuckin tune. Macca at his cocky "I can shit out choruses at the moment so here's a chorus for the backing vocals to sing" best. Most of Ram is him in that mode, really. It's my favourite Beatle solo album by some distance.

biggytitbo

Quote from: non capisco on December 04, 2018, 09:19:15 PM
Backseat Of My Car is such a fuckin tune. Macca at his cocky "I can shit out choruses at the moment so here's a chorus for the backing vocals to sing" best. Most of Ram is him in that mode, really. It's my favourite Beatle solo album by some distance.

One of the songs John wrongfully, whilst obsessively scouring the album for digs, thought was about him too. I don't think Too Many People (which is a bit of a dig at John) gets enough credit, its a total stormer.

biggytitbo

Quote from: grassbath on December 04, 2018, 08:59:42 PM
'Great,' I think, 'a thread on CaB discussing and analysing in-depth the actual histories and relationships of those four fascinating chaps the Beatles!' And it turns into another 'what if' fantasy album circle jerk.

Sorry, this is a massive pet peeve of mine. I appreciate that there's interest in it and I'm sure the playlists are very enjoyable to listen to. But this stuff is so done. There's so much still to talk and think about with the lives they *actually* lived.


Statistically speaking though, it must be mathematically virtually impossible for two people ever to come up with the same list, so all content is bound to be unique across the entire universe.

It does seem very odd they were never in the same room together after 1969, but maybe it was a reaction to being on so many tours together and the fact that the mega-fame they found so oppressive was due to being in that group?

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Satchmo Distel on December 04, 2018, 09:47:59 PM
It does seem very odd they were never in the same room together after 1969, but maybe it was a reaction to being on so many tours together and the fact that the mega-fame they found so oppressive was due to being in that group?

Even odder still is the fact that no one recorded or photographed their meeting with Elvis. The five most famous musicians in rock history, and no one thought to capture that moment for posterity.

Replies From View

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on December 04, 2018, 10:54:26 PM
Even odder still is the fact that no one recorded or photographed their meeting with Elvis. The five most famous musicians in rock history, and no one thought to capture that moment for posterity.

Too absorbed in the moment itself to bother documenting it for the outside world.  We've all been there.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Yes, a bit like when I met Sylvester McCoy and forgot to ask him for an autograph.

the science eel

Quote from: non capisco on December 04, 2018, 09:19:15 PM
Backseat Of My Car is such a fuckin tune. Macca at his cocky "I can shit out choruses at the moment so here's a chorus for the backing vocals to sing" best.

It's incredible. It's just a wee bit off most people's radar, too. When I first heard it I couldn't believe it.

I'm trying to work out the piano chords but it's a fucker. I mean, I can play Cm and F7 and all that, but you need those extra notes to make it jazz-like or whatever.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

The YouTube stuff that biggy posted the other day includes bleak audio recordings from the Let It Be sessions. John sounds pissed off and conflicted, Macca is desperately trying to keep the peace (arrogantly at times), Ringo just wants everyone to stop bickering, and George has had enough.

We all know that, of course, but actually listening to them going through it is quite something.

grassbath

On the topic of the Get Back tapes, there's a tremendous blog, amoralto, which has gone through the audio in painstaking detail, finding interesting moments, posting clips, transcribing and providing analysis. Their general archive section is full of fascinating research and content as well. It's one of the best repositories of Beatles info on the internet that I've found, with an extremely even-handed approach and access to lots of rare sources, and the original content is written with considerable flair.

The Beatles and the Historians is also great, run by a lecturer in American History who considers Beatles history to be unusually skewed and biased and has written her own book on the topic. The comments sections are often very worth reading for in-depth discussion. A lot of contributors there have come over from Hey Dullblog, which used to be the premier site for this sort of stuff but has been sadly less active recently.

My interest in the Beatles has really taken on a new life after delving into the more considered areas of the online fandom. With this 'ground-up' research going on in the community, a lot of the previously 'official' narratives are being overturned, and new ones are coming to light. Added together, the minutiae that are collected by some of these bloggers really help you to see the band as real three-dimensional people, as opposed to the caricatures they have become down the years. The videos that biggy posted earlier are definitely in line with this new way of thinking.

it's funny that all of their solo careers were pretty fantastic until they all went a bit mediocre in 1976 exactly. Looking at these fantasy later albums, the late 70's ones strike me as having to compile quite a lot of sub par stuff

the science eel

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on December 05, 2018, 12:04:17 AM
it's funny that all of their solo careers were pretty fantastic until they all went a bit mediocre in 1976 exactly.

That's generous. I'd say 1973.

I could definitely see the case for that, but I think Venus and Mars is a top-tier McCartney album and have a soft spot for the open-hearted quality of George's Extra Texture. after that things get very ropey very quickly

grassbath

Plus Walls and Bridges knocks Sometime in New York City and Mind Games into a cocked hat.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: grassbath on December 05, 2018, 12:00:23 AM
On the topic of the Get Back tapes, there's a tremendous blog, amoralto, which has gone through the audio in painstaking detail, finding interesting moments, posting clips, transcribing and providing analysis. Their general archive section is full of fascinating research and content as well. It's one of the best repositories of Beatles info on the internet that I've found, with an extremely even-handed approach and access to lots of rare sources, and the original content is written with considerable flair.

The Beatles and the Historians is also great, run by a lecturer in American History who considers Beatles history to be unusually skewed and biased and has written her own book on the topic. The comments sections are often very worth reading for in-depth discussion. A lot of contributors there have come over from Hey Dullblog, which used to be the premier site for this sort of stuff but has been sadly less active recently.

My interest in the Beatles has really taken on a new life after delving into the more considered areas of the online fandom. With this 'ground-up' research going on in the community, a lot of the previously 'official' narratives are being overturned, and new ones are coming to light. Added together, the minutiae that are collected by some of these bloggers really help you to see the band as real three-dimensional people, as opposed to the caricatures they have become down the years. The videos that biggy posted earlier are definitely in line with this new way of thinking.

Interesting, ta. I look forward to delving in to all of that.

biggytitbo

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on December 05, 2018, 12:04:17 AM
it's funny that all of their solo careers were pretty fantastic until they all went a bit mediocre in 1976 exactly. Looking at these fantasy later albums, the late 70's ones strike me as having to compile quite a lot of sub par stuff


McCartney was on fire in 79/80, arrow through me, goodnight tonight, coming up, daytime nightime suffering, McCartney 2, some top tier stuff there, and he kept up the standard for a few more years before he hit his 80s lull.

Beagle 2

Quote from: grassbath on December 05, 2018, 12:00:23 AM
On the topic of the Get Back tapes, there's a tremendous blog, amoralto, which has gone through the audio in painstaking detail, finding interesting moments, posting clips, transcribing and providing analysis. Their general archive section is full of fascinating research and content as well. It's one of the best repositories of Beatles info on the internet that I've found, with an extremely even-handed approach and access to lots of rare sources, and the original content is written with considerable flair.

The Beatles and the Historians is also great, run by a lecturer in American History who considers Beatles history to be unusually skewed and biased and has written her own book on the topic. The comments sections are often very worth reading for in-depth discussion. A lot of contributors there have come over from Hey Dullblog, which used to be the premier site for this sort of stuff but has been sadly less active recently.

My interest in the Beatles has really taken on a new life after delving into the more considered areas of the online fandom. With this 'ground-up' research going on in the community, a lot of the previously 'official' narratives are being overturned, and new ones are coming to light. Added together, the minutiae that are collected by some of these bloggers really help you to see the band as real three-dimensional people, as opposed to the caricatures they have become down the years. The videos that biggy posted earlier are definitely in line with this new way of thinking.

Great stuff, thanks for that. Thing is, I'll defend Paul against all the usual cliches until the cows come home but then I hear him on these tapes and I wouldn't have lasted five minutes before telling him to go and fuck himself and going to the pub.

Quote from: biggytitbo on December 05, 2018, 06:53:51 AM

McCartney was on fire in 79/80, arrow through me, goodnight tonight, coming up, daytime nightime suffering, McCartney 2, some top tier stuff there, and he kept up the standard for a few more years before he hit his 80s lull.

Yeah McCartney definitely has a complicated trajectory that resists blanket statements like the one I made, but I would still say that the late 70's stuff represents a bit of decline while still being eminently listenable and he becomes truly interesting again with McCartney II and then Tug of War is an absolute triumph

a duncandisorderly

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on December 04, 2018, 11:27:14 PM
We all know that, of course, but actually listening to them going through it is quite something.

I bought & read "you never give me your money" because of this thread. fuck me. I thought I knew a bit about the pre- & post-fab four, but I had no idea.

do yourself a favour- get a copy. the 'what if..?' playlists are cute & all, but it was never going to happen.

Replies From View

Quote from: grassbath on December 05, 2018, 12:00:23 AM
On the topic of the Get Back tapes, there's a tremendous blog, amoralto, which has gone through the audio in painstaking detail, finding interesting moments, posting clips, transcribing and providing analysis.

Thanks!  I'm reading and listening to this now, and blimey - for all of Lennon's bitterness that many of his songs (eg Across the Universe) weren't taken seriously by the group and were in effect sabotaged by their lack of love for his efforts, he sure knew how to dish it out.

QuoteJanuary 8th, 1969: George plays 'I Me Mine' to John for the first time. John snacks on food, opens Paul's mail, and doesn't pay much attention.

JOHN: Is that the end of it?

GEORGE: Yeah. It's only that long—

JOHN: We can use it for a commercial. [laughs; bored] So uh, yeah. It's fine. And what do we do about that?

GEORGE: Um, well, it's just a bit – you see—

JOHN: It sounds so hard to do.

GEORGE: No, it's... no.

JOHN: I mean, for you.

GEORGE: No.

JOHN: [falsetto] I me mine... You know, all that singing.

GEORGE: [starts playing again] All through the day, I me mine, I me mine, I me mine... All through the night, I me mine, I me mine, I me mine... No one's frightened of leaving it, everyone's weaving it, coming on strong all the time...

JOHN: [operatic] I me my me my me my me my oh...

GEORGE: All I can hear... [starts playing forcefully] I me mine – I me mine – I me mine...

JOHN: All the girls can come on and dance it. Hari [Krishna]s and fisherwives, and dwarves, and hunchbacks...

GEORGE: Even your tears, I me mine, I me mine, I me mine... No one's frightened of playing it, everyone's saying it, flowing more freely than wine...

JOHN: [derisive] Run along, son. [laughs] See you later. We're a rock 'n' roll band, you know. Bom bo bom bo bom bo bom bo bom...

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/39803804848/january-8th-1969-george-plays-i-me-mine-to

George's post-Beatles bitterness becomes 200x more understandable reading that. What a relief it must have been to do solo albums and not have to deal with that shit

Beagle 2

In fairness, the song is essentially having a pop at the rest of them, and is a complete stinker.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Bloody hell, John could be such a cunt at times. I Me Mine is a good song, better than some of the crap that John went on to write, but he's behaving as if George has just played him Shaddap You Face.

"Run along son." I mean, really. Imagine playing a song to one of your band-mates and getting a reaction like that. It's not good-natured either, it's a blatantly rude, patronising dismissal of a perfectly decent piece of material. As MV says, no wonder George was so keen to go solo. I don't blame him at all.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Beagle 2 on December 05, 2018, 08:13:52 PM
In fairness, the song is essentially having a pop at the rest of them, and is a complete stinker.

Whatever you think of the song - I quite like it - it would appear that John wasn't really listening to it. Or maybe he was feigning disinterest because it made him feel uncomfortable. Either way, that's rotten behaviour.