Dealing With a Belligerent Mental Case

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Not the most sensitive title, but sod it.

My best friend's wife - lets call her Jane - has a long standing association* with an individual whom we'll refer to as Bernard. Bernard, unfortunately, is afflicted with mental illness; I don't know the exact diagnosis, but severe social anxiety, autism and self-harm are all present. The Bernard I've always known is very meek, rarely raising his voice beyond a murmer, but his behaviour toward Jane is a very different story. I've been hearing increasing reports lately of him acting like a real shit to her. While Jane is a mental health professional, she isn't his personal worker, although he seems to think she is and vents spleen at her for all his perceived problems.
His main bugbear seems to be his housing situation which, despite being pretty cushy by most peoples' standards, he finds intolerable. Of particular annoyance is one of his neighbours, which came to a head recently, when Bernard assaulted them, only getting away with it because the bloke is a known ASBO type.

I don't for a second think that mental illness is a bed of roses, but at the same time, I feel like Bernard needs to buck his ideas up and stop being a cock to the one person that has stuck by him all these years. The question is, how does one convey that sentiment in a way that his mind won't twist into a sense of victimisation? The last thing I want is to give him another reason to rant at Jane.



* _{"friendship" at this point seems like a misnomer.}

[MoonDust]

I dunno. It could be his extreme anxiety, autism, and whatever it is that makes him want to harm himself making him behave this way.

[Buelligan]

Sadly, seriously, I doubt if there's any intervention you can make that won't exacerbate the situation. 

I mean, Jane's a mental health professional, I'm guessing she has a pretty good understanding of what can be done, whereas you and I, dear Claude, we are just arseholes swimming about in the internet. 

Ask yourself who is best placed to select a workable solution.  It's not the arseholes, is it?

If you say it is, I'm coming round to yours and giving you a kicking.

[Zetetic]

It could be his extreme anxiety, autism, and whatever ... making him behave this way.

These aren't separate from who he is, it should be emphasised. They, or their impact, won't change without him changing.

How is Jane?

[MoonDust]

I was making the point on how harsh the post seems. "Mental case" and then saying he should "buck his ideas up".

[Pingers]

Expecting someone with autism to "buck their ideas up" is like shouting at the tide to go out. Maybe he should try putting himself in her shoes eh? Therein lies the problem to a large extent. Without wishing to stereotype, complaining that neuro atypical people are being unreasonable is to some extent unreasonable. Sure, having an autism diagnosis shouldn't be a free pass to being Shit of the Year with no consequences, but it's pretty likely that in Bernard's eyes his neighbour and Jane solidly deserve whatever he's meting out to them. It likely all seems perfectly reasonable to him, and the best thing anyone can do to make progress would be to understand why he's doing what he's doing.

[manticore]

Expecting someone with autism to "buck their ideas up" is like shouting at the tide to go out. Maybe he should try putting himself in her shoes eh? Therein lies the problem to a large extent. Without wishing to stereotype, complaining that neuro atypical people are being unreasonable is to some extent unreasonable. Sure, having an autism diagnosis shouldn't be a free pass to being Shit of the Year with no consequences, but it's pretty likely that in Bernard's eyes his neighbour and Jane solidly deserve whatever he's meting out to them. It likely all seems perfectly reasonable to him, and the best thing anyone can do to make progress would be to understand why he's doing what he's doing.

How do you know all this? The term 'autism' covers a wide range of different kinds of problems. We reading this account don't know the extent of Bernard's responsibility for his own actions and his ability to reason about them.

I wouldn't know how much this applies in this particular situation but a syndrome I've been aware of a number of times is that people feel most angry at the very people who are helping them most and therefore on whom they feel the most dependent. They resent their feelings of helplessness and thus dependence and that resentment manifests itself in the form of rage.

Is it possible that that is at least part of what's happening here?

-----------------------------

I do hate the title of this thread.

[Pingers]

I don't know, I'm surmising based on my experience of having known and supported a good number of people with autism, all of whom in their own way struggled to see things from other people's points of view, which is inherent in getting the diagnosis in the first place. I could go into lots of detail but I'm not sure that's needed.

[Flouncer]

This is very difficult... I can see it from both sides, as I share some of yer man's problems (albeit with more self-awareness, by the sounds of things) and have also looked after people with autism and mental health problems. Sometimes I have meltdowns and stuff, and my girlfriend is often there for me... I do occasioally end up shouting at her and being a bit of an arse; it's really embarrassing to admit but when you're spazzing out because your anxiety is unbearable and you have autistic traits, you can end up taking it out on people who are trying to help you. Obviously this isn't an excuse for behaving badly, and I feel awful about it after and apologise sincerely... Me and my partner are both on the spectrum and she understands my issues, though it must still be hurtful and hard to deal with. If you only saw me when I was having a meltdown you might think I'm a horrible abusive cunt and wonder why she puts up with it, but it's only one part of the story. Sometimes the shoe is on the other foot and I have to put up with her being mental. She even hit me once! Anyway...

In terms of actually doing something to change the situation, I would imagine there's little you can do; having a word with him is not likely to be taken well and may well inflame the situation and potentially make your friend's life more difficult. If he doesn't have the awareness to realise he's doing something wrong, there's probably little hope of him changing his behaviour, without proper professional help at least, and even then he'll probably find it difficult to engage with. It might sound a bit cold but ultimately it's your friend's choice to put herself in this situation and whether or not she puts up with it is a matter for her - although, it could well be the case that having her as his emotional crutch might ultimately not be the best thing for him either. If I were you I'd encourage her to take a step back and think about what's best for both of them. Often with these things, though we might have the best intentions we can end up being too close to see the bigger picture.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I did acknowledge the shittiness of the thread title. I'm sorry if I seem insensitive (while pleading for advice on how to tactfully deal with a delicate situation for the good of the people that I love).

If I seem harsh, it's because of how horrible this all is for my dear friend Jane. She told me she was on the verge of calling the Samaritans over all this, for fucks sake. I am well aware that is easier said than done and I might as well say he should "snap out of it", or some other such cliché, but am I wrong to think that a change in his thinking on the matter would be for the best? Isn't that what therapy and whatnot are all about?

I dunno. It could be his extreme anxiety, autism, and whatever it is that makes him want to harm himself making him behave this way.

Quite probably, I expect. I think pushing Jane away would ultimately be a self-destructive act for him.

Sadly, seriously, I doubt if there's any intervention you can make that won't exacerbate the situation. 

I mean, Jane's a mental health professional, I'm guessing she has a pretty good understanding of what can be done...

I fear you may be right, but I feel like I can't just sit around and let her bear his abuse alone.

[Pingers]

Some people with autism struggle with therapy simply because their thinking is pretty fixed. Not all, mind, but for some people it's not really a goer. There are some people who it's really hard for us neurotypicals to be around and vice versa. As a general rule though, if someone's behaviour starts to become more problematic for others it means something is going wrong for them. It may or may not be possible to resolve it. Sometimes resolving it takes a long time and a lot of effort.

[QDRPHNC]

Reader, I divorced her.

[canadagoose]

I honestly don't think there's any excuse for being malicious towards someone, even if there's a reason for the malicious behaviour to have appeared in the first place. Maybe he just needs to be told. Of course, that could feed into a victim complex and then make him act worse, but some people are just like that. You've got to set boundaries regardless.

[massive bereavement]

.I fear you may be right, but I feel like I can't just sit around and let her bear his abuse alone.

You could try the "I'm a little concerned about Jane, she seems to be very stressed out lately" type of approach. Focus on her in the initial conversation and leave him to think about it.

[Urinal Cake]

Is he taking medication?

The best thing is to get an independent psychiatrist or doctor to diagnose him. Then put him on medication/counselling/coping strategies.  Obviously it's a long course but Jane should disentangle herself as her main duty as a mh professional is to herself.

[Pingers]

Is he taking medication?

The best thing is to get an independent psychiatrist or doctor to diagnose him. Then put him on medication/counselling/coping strategies.  Obviously it's a long course but Jane should disentangle herself as her main duty as a mh professional is to herself.

There are an awful lot of people who have been through the mental health system who would disagree in the strongest terms that the best thing is to be diagnosed and then medicated by a doctor. An awful lot.

[Cloud]

I was making the point on how harsh the post seems. "Mental case" and then saying he should "buck his ideas up".

Maybe it'd help if he cleans his room!

...

In all seriousness, it's a shitty situation with no  easy  answer.  Sounds bi-polar-ish, but I'm no mental health professional, just a hunch.  It's not his fault, as he has a mental illness,  but a mental illness  also isn't a license to be a dick to someone and lines can still be drawn with their behaviour,  particularly when  it's violent.  But  it's  not easy  to do that,  because he has a mental illness and it's not his  fault :/

I don't think there's much  you can do. The one who's equipped to help is the one who's already voluntarily  doing so (because he's a friend, I guess).  Perhaps Jane is stronger and better at coping with it than you think?  It takes a special kind of person to be able to work with the mentally ill, with a lot of training and hopefully the support of her husband when she comes home.  It's no fun for anyone to watch, but sounds like he's already in good hands with nothing that an untrained third party can really do.   I doubt he'd benefit from the Jordan Peterson approach, as alluring an answer as it may feel.

Hope everyone involved does a little better soon.

[Urinal Cake]

There are an awful lot of people who have been through the mental health system who would disagree in the strongest terms that the best thing is to be diagnosed and then medicated by a doctor. An awful lot.

I'd agree with that but in the current situation it's one of the better routes to take for Jane to take.

[Captain Z]

[tag] you've come to the right place [/tag]

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

He was recently taken off medication by his doctor. I don't know if his current nastiness is a result of that.
People are probably correct that Jane needs to define her boundaries, but I don't know how she does that when Bernard's main bone of contention is that she's already not helping him enough.

I doubt he'd benefit from the Jordan Peterson approach, as alluring an answer as it may feel.

Funny you should mention that, as Bernard is also into all that alt right gamer gate type of crap. All the talk of feminazis probably isn't helping his relationship with Jane. I don't suppose it'd be worth pointing out that a world run by the Milo Petersons and such would probably see him out on the street, instead of living in tax funded luxury.

[Buelligan]

I have a close (in both senses of the word) and dear friend who is bipolar.  For me this means - sometimes I am an angel of wisdom and goodness and sometimes I am a despicable cunt and I don't have to do anything at all to achieve either state, other than breathe (and maybe not even that).  But I understand this and do not allow it to touch my well-being or self-worth (and it rarely touches my friendship).  I know it is as remote from me as the phases of Saturn's moons.  I have no power over their orbits but they have none over me - unless I allow it. 

I think the best thing you can do here is remind Jane that she is Jane and quite separate from Bernard.  Support Jane, I think that's the best you can do.

[manticore]

He was recently taken off medication by his doctor. I don't know if his current nastiness is a result of that.
People are probably correct that Jane needs to define her boundaries, but I don't know how she does that when Bernard's main bone of contention is that she's already not helping him enough.
Funny you should mention that, as Bernard is also into all that alt right gamer gate type of crap. All the talk of feminazis probably isn't helping his relationship with Jane. I don't suppose it'd be worth pointing out that a world run by the Milo Petersons and such would probably see him out on the street, instead of living in tax funded luxury.

Okay - what do you say to the suggestion that your friend is dealing with an angry man who is somewhat self-centred and is aggrieved about the fact that he feels dependent on a woman?

How much is the appeal to psychiatric or neurological disorders as determining his behaviour obscuring understanding of the situation  here? 

[Cloud]

Funny you should mention that, as Bernard is also into all that alt right gamer gate type of crap. All the talk of feminazis probably isn't helping his relationship with Jane. I don't suppose it'd be worth pointing out that a world run by the Milo Petersons and such would probably see him out on the street, instead of living in tax funded luxury.

Oh.... oh  dear..

The vindictive part of me would be tempted to say "right then mate, if you believe all that shite so much then  put your money where your mouth is - stop being a snivelling little weasel and pull yourself up by your bootstraps you massive beta cuck" (I like to think I'm not a cunt, but speaking his language) or for Jane to say well if you hate women then ta-ta, let's see how you get on without this one.  But then it just comes back around to mental illness and with that comes with the inability to see when you're your own enemy and the tendency to say stuff you don't mean.  Plus, I was mildly brainwashed myself, not by the alt right but at least the fake centrists, and that's not even having a known mental illness  (maybe some aspergers but meh)

So I think I can therefore understand how you feel?  But yeah be strong and avoid that temptation, prove to him that people who aren't on the verge of modern day Nazism are the ones who can and will help support the less fortunate.  There's probably an argument in favour of showing one of these people what it's like being on the receiving end of their ideology and hoping a lesson is learned, but usually better to choose the kind option even when the mind is fully functional.

[EbbyVale]

He was recently taken off medication by his doctor. I don't know if his current nastiness is a result of that.
People are probably correct that Jane needs to define her boundaries, but I don't know how she does that when Bernard's main bone of contention is that she's already not helping him enough.

By dropping the bone of contention.  It's not Jane's job to make Bernard feel helped enough, and that's not what a success is going to look like here.

And that's why I'd talk to her instead of to him (well, that and the fact that he sounds pretty resistant to input).  If Bernard doesn't get better, what does she want to do? How much of her life does she want to spend on this? Maybe she needs a clear statement that it's okay for her to back off and it doesn't make her a shitty person. Is she familiar with the problems of mental-health professional burnout in situations like this, and does she realize this is the kind of thing she's likely to be professionally warned against for her own good?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

It sounds like things came to a head yesterday and Jane has officially relinquished any and all responsibility for him.

I awoke today to find that he'd deleted all his Facebook contacts. Against people's advice, I ended up leaving him a text message. Possibly not a good idea, but I thought he might be trying to top himself.

[Cloud]

Entirely possible.  Hope everything's ok.

[The Boston Crab]

Your mate sounds like a total cuck. He should beat Bernard until his legs don't work or hold a knife at the madman's neck. It's the only language these animals understand.